mozzaITA

Mate had a hire car yesterday while his car gets repaired, it was a civic 1.8 V-Tech, 5 door so it looked crap but that engine was fantastic, it reved so smoothly to 8000rpm, felt quick and made a luvly noise!!! i was impressed, is this a civic coupe? i looked in the book and it said that civic coupes are 1.6 v-tech, which ones are the fast a furious ones???

Devil's Refugee

Civic Coupes were 1.6 VTecs, and used in FAF.
I had a drive in the 1.8 VTI-S models and have to say it left me very cold and unimpressed.
VTec experience is not for me I concluded.

mozzaITA

civic coupes are only 1.6 then? whats the performance like? anyone got any pictures??

I didnt get to drive it but it felt great, im used(boared) to my G60 engine and just nice to get into sumthing different.

Devil's Refugee

I think the Coupes are a poor 2nd to the 3dr hatch, which is much more stylish imho
Sub 8.5s I think are the 0-60 times if memory serves me.

lpitt

(It's VTEC and not VTECH!)
FYI:

The 1.8VTi S does 0-60 in 8.5 secs (8.8 for the 5 door)
The 1.6VTi does 0-60 in 7.5 secs

I can't remember the bhp on the 1.8 but it's lower than the 1.6 which has 167bhp as standard.

Laurence

clarence

The 1.6 VTEC has 158bhp, the 1.8 VTEC has 167bhp.
The reason y the 1.8 is slower than the 1.6 is cos the 1.8 is only available with the 5-dr Euro-only Civic, whereas the 1.6 is available only in the EG/EK Civics, which are a lot lighter.

brickboy

When looking at company car options a few years ago I drove an Accord Type R -- great handling and great to test drive (i.e. cane thru the gears everywhere ), but in everyday driving the engine characteristics would have been frustrating ... it didn't respond at all at normal road speeds.

To get it to pull at 40mph, you basically needed to be in second gear.

Dracoro

I've got a Honda S2000 with a 240bhp vetc engine. If you want a real vtec experience try one of these. 9000rpm red line and amazing sound.

Nearly everyone I've taken out in it say that it sounds and feels more like a racing car than a normal car that's merely powerful.

blitz imp reza

Honda VTEC's are great make a lovely induction bark when it kicks in.And you can rev the tit's off them! They are best at handling, my mates civic with spax/eibach set up can out handle my scoob in the dry around the twisties. but mine is standard suspension at the mo.

Type R

I own a JDM CTR (1.6), with round about 200BHP with my mods, standard 183BHP, 0-60 - 5.7, and my modded N/A version did a 14.0 1/4 mile.

Now got the Rev Limiter upto 8900rpm, going upto 9500rpm , once the valve train has been upgraded.

Fantastic cars love mine to bits

Cosworth427

V-TEC has NOTHING to do with 9000 RPM or it having 240 HP. A non-V-TEC 2 litre engine can be tuned to make 240 HP just like the inline 4 from the S2000 with fast, race cams and head/valve work.

carl

Yes, but the VTEC allows it to have a less aggressive cam profile at low revs, which means you can have a 200+ bhp car that revs to 9000rpm+ without getting sub-20 mpg.

[Edited by carl - 12/13/2002 10:05:41 PM]

Cosworth427

You got the part where V-TEC allows a car to be drivable, but you're wrong about RPM speed. It is not variable valve timing of any sort that enables a car to reach high engine speeds. Its more to do with mass of moving parts. Light alloy pistons, con rods help. And the distance of piston travel through the stroke.

A V8 with no form of VVT or "V-TEC" can be made to run into high RPM's.

hegie

High RPM had this discussion in the pub most cars rev to 6-8 thousand RPM a four stroke 250cc motor bike will rev to 18 thousand formula 1 rev to approx 20k so if a scooby could be tuned to rev 2k more how much more would it perform but the more they rev the shorter it will last unless its a honda

Cosworth427

Hegie --- You have to remember, with RPM, you have to consider gearing too. If you were to say increase the RPM limit by another 2K, this lets you stay in that same gear for longer. (Lower gears mean more torque to the wheels) This is one reason why the S2000 is so quick, you'll be accelerating to 45+ MPH in 1st, alot quicker than many other 250 HP+ cars.

MooseRacer

You might be right, if that was true in actual fact most Honda vtec's are very low geared - needing a change into 3rd by the time you reach 60mph.


[Edited by MooseRacer - 12/14/2002 8:52:12 AM]

dsmith

My old '92 Civic 1.6VTi 3dr had 158 bhp. 0-60 was low 7s.

Golf GTi used to get very pissed off . I loved the VTec engine - the change in engine note as the second set of cams comes in used to bring a smile to my face every time

Deano

Type R

Cosworth is right to an extent the longer you can hold a gear the quicker you will be.

My speeds approximately;

1st Gear 35 ish Mph
2nd Gear 67mph
3rd gear 101mph approx
4th Gear 125mph
5th Gear 146mph with standard ECU (Recorded with Timing Gear)

I have a VCD with 2 JDM CTR's one which is standard and 1 which has a Rev Limit of 10000rpm, the latter pulls away massively every time the standard CTR changes gear.


[Edited by Type R - 12/14/2002 11:41:17 AM]

dhorwich

but if your power peaks at 8000rpm whats the point of keeping it in gear all the way to 9500rpm...???

Dan

MooseRacer

But Type R, your rev limit isn't set to standard now, is it

Type R

No but but standard it still did 60 in 2 gears, which proves my point , 3rd 90mph.

On a bench test which I have on a VCD the Spoon engine with 10000 rpm peaked at 9300, and after that engine vibration ment the power tailed off.

As standard my peak power was not hit as it was still climbing when it hit the limiter, and with the Remap and addition revs, guess what the peak power hits the Rev Limiter.

I have taken mine upto 9400rpm, for some tests, but obviously havent left it there, until I upgrade the vlavetrain and the power feels good, no RR test done, but it definetly doesnt feel like the power has tailed off.

MooseRacer

But, coming back to Cosworth's post, holding onto a gear for longer doesn't automatically mean quicker acceleration, which is what I understood he was trying to suggest.

Type R

In theory it does, because you put too cars together 1/4 mile for example the one which would rev longer would be there quicker, so I would class that as faster.

What it does give you is power for a longer time, in my car for example you do get an increase in Power, which would make my car accelerate quicker.



[Edited by Type R - 12/14/2002 5:48:23 PM]

MooseRacer

The theory only holds true if the car is continuing to make good power - if there is a dramatic fall off then this would not be the case. What holds true for a200bhp 1.6 doesn't for most lesser cars.

Type R

True but we are talking Honda's and the B16a which is a standard version of my engine B16B, which the only difference between that and the DC2 (old ITR) is the stroke.

So as for performance VTEC's generally it does run true.

Not one to loose a discussion

[Edited by Type R - 12/14/2002 9:44:49 PM]

Marky-San

My mate has the Accord Type R. I've tried this car and absolutely love the howl the car makes at 5,800. Its nearly got the same kick as a turbo, without all the pain that can come from it. I nearly got one instead of my Impreza - I thought it was that good.

Test drive the Civic Type R - great car!!

Colonel Mullet

The wife has a Civic 1.8Vti-S. It looks like a grandad's car except for the wheels and front air dam. It has 167bhp and revs to at least 8300 (not hit the limiter yet). Consequently it will do 70 in 2nd gear in standard form. This does not make it a particularly quick car, but it does make it a very amusing one.

However, if you drive one on a long journey you do settle into relaxed-cruising mode much more readily than in a turbocharged beastie, firstly because it is an effort to keep in the VTEC zone every time you need to accelerate but also because (unlike an Evo/Scoob) driving more sedately actually brings real rewards in terms of fuel economy. It makes a fine second car!

lpitt

Type R: I didn't realise that the JDM CTR did over 60 in 2nd. IMO that's the only problem with the new CTR, it only does 58 in 2nd and you need to change to get to 60. If it just did an extra 2mph then the 0-60 would be an entirely different figure.

Mind you, 30-90 is pretty amazing. Makes me grin every time

Laurence

Cosworth427

dhorwich

"but if your power peaks at 8000rpm whats the point of keeping it in gear all the way to 9500rpm...???

Dan "

It's not horsepower that determines how quick a car can go. It's the the torque you transmit to the wheels. Gearboxes take the energy from the flywheel and creates more torque through the gears. 1st gear will always generate more torque at the wheels than 2nd, and 2nd will always generate more torque to the wheels than 3rd, and so on. The problem with not being able to stay in low gears for long with road cars is the limit the the engine can run at. Once it hits it's RPM limit, it can no longer go any faster in that gear, so a reduction in gear will allow you to go to a higher speed, although with less acceleration.

Cosworth427

Mooseracer
"But, coming back to Cosworth's post, holding onto a gear for longer doesn't automatically mean quicker acceleration, which is what I understood he was trying to suggest."

"The theory only holds true if the car is continuing to make good power - if there is a dramatic fall off then this would not be the case. What holds true for a200bhp 1.6 doesn't for most lesser cars."

Mooseracer, Have you ever wondered why a car pulls so much quicker to 30 MPH in 1st than 2nd? Gearing increases torque to the wheels, this is what makes the driving wheels turn with greater force and reaches that desired speed as soon as.

A 200 HP car with 4:1 ratio accellerates as well as a 400 HP car with 2:1 ratio.

No, gearing does not increase HP, all it does is increase torque. And your point about engines "falling off" only holds true if the ratio's of the gear you are in and the gear you must change to is less than the loss of power beyond peak HP.

Say at 5500 RPM, you make 100HP peak, but at 6500 RPM, you make only 80 HP, there is a 20 HP/20% "fall off". But 1st gear is 3:1 while 2nd is 2:1, the difference in loss of TORQUE TO THE WHEELS from shifting up is 33%. This loss is GREATER than the loss you make in going past peak HP.

Trust me, its usually quicker to use all your RPM in the gear you are in.



[Edited by Cosworth427 - 12/17/2002 12:45:39 AM]