Blackscooby

Hi,

If I had my way I'd have a Mi16 engine in my Pug (no actually I'd have a Mk1 Escort 2l Pinto ~ easy to work on no stupid electrics !)

Anyway, the regs I compete under mean that I can't swap my 8v engine for a 16v lump. The 16v engine is a cracker and has LOTS of potential depending on the amout of money you have to "throw" its way.

This is my little beasty
http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8776

Basically little is left of the original 1905 engine except the block and the head !

Are you sat down, cos I'll say whats been done to it.. (this takes a while )

Forged pistons
Lightened and balanced crank, rods, flywheel & clutch cover
Gas flowed inlet manifold and head
310 duration cam (can't remember who'se but basically I'd NEVER fit it to a road car !)
AP Paddle clutch
Quaife ATB LSD
Currently 1.6 gearbox but changing to an Mi16 crown wheel to lower ratios
DTA mappable ECU
Customised Group A exhaust system with additional box to meet sound regs.

Its "almost" finished. Drove it the other weekend which the tread from the 205 drivers site discusses. Needs its final map before I can give my proper judgement as we're reving only to 6000rpm and its bearly starting to pull properly by then.
Proper map will give us something like 8000 to 8500 revs.

Some pics....

http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/blacks...-build&.view=t

Before you jump down the Mad cam route, think very hard what you want your car for. Track days OK have a mad cam, but for a daily driver ours would be useless. It would drive me insane.









[Edited by Blackscooby - 11/5/2002 7:59:49 PM]

UkLegacyT

just wondered what power you had managed, and also what to did to obtain it. its just my mate has one, and i was wondering the potential...

thanks
ian

TopBanana

Puma Racing MI16 tuning guide

UkLegacyT

thanks mate, will have a gander now

polarbearit

Well I'm told that the 1.9 8v has as much or more potential

Tim Bomford

http://www.findit.co.uk/cars/race/456835.htm

Just buy this one, its done already!

Tim

ScoobyJawa

polarbearit

I'm suprised thats what you heard? When I had a Pug 205 1.9 the best mod for big power, and the one everyone did, was the MI16 engine and ditch the 8v lump. The Mi was good for being tuned to 170-200bhp (150-155bhp standard) which would take a lot of money on the 1.9 8v they came with...........

gooser

Fairly sure BlackScooby has. He races some sort of nutty Pug.

sammyh

iTrader: (1)

Mine was 251Bhp with 222 at the wheels, in a 205 but its dead now

Ex_Pug

It depends on how driveable you want the car to be, Blackscooby's car is running a very hot cam, and it's not a very practical car for anything other than the sprints and things he uses it for.

The Puma Racing site linked above has loads of info on the tuning potential of both 8v and 16v engines.

I had a tuned 8v engine which was right for me, because I wanted the power of a standard 16v, but with a much more usable torque band for the twistie country roads. You'll never get huge power from one though.

16v engines are much better for the figures, but you won't see much above 220-230bhp without reliability issues and/or spending £4000+ to do a proper job (which has been done). By this time it's not just the engine you have to consider spending money on!!!

UkLegacyT

thanks for the replies

sammy, thats one hot spec you must have had

yeah, its a friends car. he has a 306 GTi-6. he got a Longman head, but this at current spec retains standard valves and cams. also centre and rear pipe are magnex, also k&n induction.

reason i asked about tuning is because i fit all the parts for him etc and advise to a certain extent, as he doesnt know much about tuning cars etc.

however, not being an expert on these engines by any means, i wanted to find out the potential of these engines.
i was thinking along the lines of:
decat front pipe
larger inlet valves
vernier pullies
cams (poss kent PT80 or 82..cant remember off hand)
throttle bodies, jenvey or similar?

what is the best ecu setup for such an engine?

also, what is the best route to go with the bottom end, considering its already a 2.0litre. he doesnt want to shell out for pistons/rods/crank etc, but i was wondering what sort of revs these can handle as standard....8000rpm? rod bolts needed?

the car has covered circa 50,000miles, so is in good nick.

the head: already ported to a good spec, and compression has been increased by means of quite a skim off the head.


sorry about all the questions, just trying to get an idea for him.

any replies appreciated.
thanks
ian

GP

the Mi16 engine (along with the vauxhall 20XE), is one of the very very few 16v lumps (they might be the only 2 actually) which will develop a genuine 200bhp on standard internals - but for that you will need throttle bodies and a good exhaust manifold and system - but avoid the need for more internal work.

standard valves are very large - for that reason you should avoid porting out the head too much as you will lose bottom end torque - changing cams will exacerbate this, so it all depends on what your application is, and where you want the power.

TBs and a good exhaust will do wonders for it - I can't be more specific as the XE is what I know, but I imagine most of the theory carries across nicely as they are very similar engines.

the 16v v 8v torque criticism, btw, is certainly not applicable in the XEs case - the 16v is better everywhere - for the pug lumps though it could be that the Mi16 larger ports sacrifice low end torque versus the 1.9 8v.

ScoobyJawa

The 306GTi-6 is a lovely engine to tune, its really good for at least 200bhp easily and doesn't take that much to get it there. The OEM manifold is terrible, like spaghetti junction and very restrictive - bin that straight away and you're halfway there!!
Speak to Colin from Pug Performance in Alton as he was the one that mentioned this manifold when I had a GTi-6, cost was around 600 quid IIRC and freed up something like 20bhp

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Jawa exactly UKLegacy why would you even consider the mi16 lump when your mates car already has 167bhp on tap?!? But yeh to re-iterate wot the jawa said, the gti6 motor is soo easy to tune and for a small price as well

ScoobyJawa

polarbearit

Well my friend has several 8valvers with big specs (over 200bhp @ the wheels) and running on Carbs. On is a road car, running silly spec everything, but surprisingly drivable with ~230 bhp @ the wheels (he used to take the mikey as my scooby had more power @ the fly but he had more @ the wheels!). Then he has a race car running a similarly crazy engine.
Check out Race Pace Engineering who built the cars...

He always said that the big power 8v's were much more driveable than the 16v's (but then I think he's building a new car with a tuned 206 16v engine in a stripped out 306 shell at the moment )

Blackscooby

Flippin' 'eck 200 at the wheels. Now thats quite impressive....if only !!!!

Biggest problem currently could well be injector flow, so they might need to be swapped for some 505 v6 sti ones which flow MUCH more ~ but then might just go for throttle bodies some time next season if my bank account ever recovers from the last on-slaught !