Fatman

I'm think about getting a Westie. The idea is to buy/build the car with my brother and Dad. Can anyone recommend a good place to go read around the subject (i.e. forums?) before we go and do the deed?

One option, I understand, is to provide a number of donor parts and get a part-kit from Westfield. I'm wondering about the engine first. A wide variety of blocks can be fitted. What's 'preferred'? I guess driving style matters a lot, and might affect choice of, say 1.8l zetec vs. 4.0l Range Rover engine.

Where to start...?

mj

by the sound of your username i would suggest the wide body version.

I think the westfield page has some links.
also http://www.wscc.co.uk/

Fatman

Nah - it's a tad sarky, I'm not wide at all. Thanks for the link. Scooby's good fun, but a Westie would be a different flavour. You a Westie driver?

mj

Used to be.



[Edited by mj - 9/18/2002 9:23:53 PM]

Fatman

...was about to tell you about the link, but guess you fixed that . Nice looking car, btw! You miss it? I got on the WSCC forum, so plenty to read about! What would be your advice on a good way to start out to a newbie Westfield project? What's the insurance cost like?

Contigo

I would imagine it would be ever so hard to build one without any in depth knowledge of canine DNA structures!

You must be barking!



[Edited by Contigo - 9/18/2002 9:36:12 PM]

Fatman

Probably. But where's the fun in being conventional? I like the idea of having a Westie and the Scoob, too!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Scoob + Westy is an excellent combination - it's exactly what I have cluttering up the drive

My Westy is a 2.0 Vauxhall powered SE widebody, and it's great - I found the smaller engined cars a bit gutless, but the Vauxhall engine is torquey and flexible. Check out the WSCC bbs for general advice, there are plenty of helpful people there including a number of current and former Scooby drivers.

A.

mj

Insurance is buttons, my first year on the car cost me about £260 in 1997. That was with 12 points ( I've still got the writing on my licence - " exceptional hardship, liklihood will loose job. No disqualification") and zero no claims bonus. The last time i insured it i think it cost me about £150.

The only thing I miss about it are the sideways showboating frolics, and the look on peoples faces when they are overtaken by an old relic - don't forget, alot of people still don't know what a westfield is, let alone what they can do. As they go, mine was pretty tame.

Whats your budget? If i was after another it would have to be the bike engined beastie, 1300 busa.
There's a twin engined ZX9 car going in the for sale section, I recon all it needs are a new set of wheels, seats, and some interior cosmetics and youv'e got an excocet.

Fatman

Yeah, I saw the twin-engined car. A beast! I want to do the build myself anyway. Well, with Dad and bro' anyway. We're looking about £3k each, so reckon on about £9k to £10k.

Insurance sounds promising. I heard that because some insurance firms recognise it's a project car so you're more likely to take care of it. Hence low premiums. Plus they're always garaged.

Building a bike-engined car sounds a tempting option. Is there much price differential between car/bike-engined builds? High revs plus nice exhaust... tempting!

hades

Insurance is peanuts - my brother's kit with 0-60 in maybe sub 4 costs him around £200 a year.

Bike engines can be quite reasonable, IIRC the fireblade (odten <1k) tends to be much cheaper than the 'busa though. As fairings are so expensive, bikes can be written off by someone dropping them relatively gently, and the engine will normally survive - leads to cheap engines. Upside is fast sequential changes, screaming revs, noise. Downside is no reverse gear, no torque, and (probably due to light weight) they tend to handle worse in the wet than car engined kits.

Car engines have their advantages too. You'd be amazed what say a 1.8 or 2 litre zetec (popular, cheap and good engine for kits) can do in something that weighs 500kg. Go mental from 1500rpm right round to 7k+, with the potential to tune to 220bhp fairly easily.

All IMHO.

Fatman

I won't be driving it in the wet! Getting used to a no-torque motor would be strange, but that's just a transition. No reverse gear? I guess that's normal for a bike. Isn't it a legal requirement that cars have reverse gears?

I've seen references to new high-spec bike engines (R1's et al) costing about £1700 new. What would a new 2.0-litre Zetec engine cost? Would that be from Ford direct?

BOB.T

I have a 1600 zetec in my Fiesta, great engine IMO but utterly untunable! I looked into it and the better option was to chuck a bigger engine in, the 2 litre is a popular choice plus it's tuneable (I haven't actually got round to it yet though!)

I wouldn't like to say on a new engine, but there are loads in scrappers plus you could rob the wiring and control units too! £500 to a grand would see it I reckon

Best of luck

Bob

GarnetFox

I thought you meant a dog.....Ooops.

*Slinks off in shame*

johnfelstead

the bike engined versions have a reverse gearbox.

Take a look at http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/

That is the strip down and rebuild diary of my Westfield ZEi220, one of the quickest westies ever, it has a 330BHP cossie turbo engine. I stuffed it but it's being resurected.

mj

john,

I just downloaded the 39 meg ring file. when i play it, it fires up in media player-latest version.
I can hear the beast but cannot see it, media player sends a request for a codec, but nothing happens.

cheers,

mj.

johnfelstead

not my mpeg, so i cant help you there. mail chris and ask him about it. He is a very naughty chap anyway, that's a copyrighted video from Joerund's website.

Fatman

That movie is a .avi anyway. The video codec is DivX, and the audio track is mp3. Download current codecs and you'll be fine...
http://www.divx.com/divx/index.php
http://www.riphelp.com/downloads/radium_codec.html
...for DivX and mp3 respectively.

hades

The bike engined kits can be fitted with a reverse gear. In some cases that means 6 reverse gears, but IIRC you have to buy an extra transfer box to do the direction swaps. Cheaper option I think I have seen somewhere is to have an electric motor for reverse like a fireblade. I have seen some kits with no reverse. Implications for SVA tests of the above I don't know.

If wet weather is no problem, that's a bonus! You can save weight and expense by running a tiny aeroscreen rather than a windscreen too - you then don't need de-mist or wipers either.

IIRC my brothers 2 litre Zetec cost him about £800 from a written off Mondeo with ~20k on the clock. He fitted Jenvey throttle bodies and 3D engine management take it to 170-180bhp for about £1.5k ish. Can do the same ultimate power but less clean running by fitting carbs and ignition only engine management for maybe <£1k. Fit cams, and a few minor tweaks, and >200bhp is achievable fairly easy, 250bhp if you throw plenty of money at it. I believe you can even turbo the zetec to 300-400bhp (although if that's any better than a cossie motor I don't know). And this in something weighing half a tonne. [/b]

[Edited by hades - 9/20/2002 6:46:52 PM]

Fatman

A reverse gear would be nice, but isn't essential. The idea of an electric motor sounds good. Is that common/popular?

To be honest, I'm interested in cheap, efficient, light-weight speed. I don't need 500bhp/tonne and I don't want to spend £15k to get there. If a bike-engined car is the most efficient way to make that formula, so be it. If it makes sense to go for a 'traditional' car-engined kit, ok. I understand that the bike-engined kits are mechanically simpler (and probably lighter, but that's a guess). My gut reaction is; that sounds a better fit to my target 'package'.

GaryC

Fatman - I have a bike engined westie, feel free to mail with questions.

The no torque rumour is a bit of a false one - they still have more torque/tonne than an STi and twice the bhp/tonne just comparatively low for the BHP, but with c150 bhp/litre it isn't really surprising!

13,000 revs, seq gearbox, F1 soundtrack, PWR same as a diablo....

The low weight is an ADVANTAGE. less inertia, better going, better stopping, better/faster cornering. On track I was following (and beating ) a 996 Turbo and just as he was hitting the brakes for a corner, I was going of another gear such is the braking and cornering superiority.

HOWEVER...they will teach you how good a driver you are. A Scooby makes everyone seems a great driver as it is a doddle to drive fast. Get into RWD with twice the PWR and NO electronics/AWD/ABS and you will get a quick lesson in humility.

Great fun though.


SCREAM IF YOU WANT TO GO FASTER

hades

Yes, bike engined cars are normally significantly (50-100kg) lighter than car engined versions of the same thing. Certainly very quick, especially for the money.

I would suggest drive one of each first, as some people prefer the way cars deliver the power, with normal gearboxes, and others prefer the bike engined, mad clean revs and sequential shifts. A decent car engined Westie/Caterham etc will also blitz a lot of very serious machinery on the track.

Value for performance wise, I'd also suggest looking at the Sylva Striker which is generally cheaper for a similar type of car. The sylva has won a lot of races and most people I know who've driven both think the chassis is actually better than the Westie. It's cheap enough that you can spend out on mechanicals to get more going/stopping/grip, or just pocket the difference. You can also get offshoots (Fisher Fury, Phoenix) which offer a more enclosed body style, only slightly heavier, if you prefer the styling.

WoIfie

MY mate got a Mega blade its a real fantasic car i would love one!