pisshead

I disagree with the last reply. Max power is available around the 5900 rev mark, and unlike other Type-Rs the CTR has an I-VTEC engine NOT a normal VTEC engine. Basically the power is distributed more evenly. Sure the main power is when you go above 5k revs, but the deliverance is more smoother. I.e. in the Integra, its like driving a volvo 340 at low revs, where as the CTR has a smoother build up.. I am biased, but am also speaking the truth Another fact is that to REALLY experience the Type R, you can't rely on a 20 min test drive!

[Edited by pisshead - 9/2/2002 6:47:31 PM]

lpitt

Well, one more reply then:

Mine's got a BMC Carbon Dynamic Induction kit which makes the VTEC roar sound like an F1 car. It's also having a CATback exhaust system fitted which I've heard (minus the induction) on a test car and sounds fantastic. Rumble at tickover then all hell breaks loose around 5k revs

It's different but I'm sure you'll like it.

Saxo Boy: What I'm saying is that from a standing start the Scooby is faster. From a rolling start I think there would be nothing in it. Talking Standard cars both times remember as currently the Scooby is much more 'modifiable' than the CTR and a modded preMY01 Scooby would leave a standard CTR behind


Laurence

[Edited by lpitt - 9/2/2002 7:03:05 PM]

Contigo

And in what way does the Subaru Impreza differ from a modified saloon?



[Edited by Contigo - 9/2/2002 7:16:22 PM]

Contigo

Just been out in a type R and I really like it but felt that it lacked the power of my Scoob.

Looks wise much better than the scoob as I feel it's a bit dated.

I have alos heard that the VTEC engines need to bed in and not until 12k ish miles would you get the best performance. The one I drove only had a powerbad from 6500 to 8500 revs and when the power did come in the wheels struggled to grip.

Any thoughts?

simon_prickett

Scout around for lpitt - I'll point him at this thread... he swapped a modded 98 wagon for a Civic Type R.


Simon.

uxg

It's not the one you drove. All CTR's are like that. The VTEC kicks in at 6K rpm till about 8K rpm. Putting more miles on it won't change that. They are cars known for there narrow power band which means you have to thrash the pants off them to go quickly which I personally don't mind but it might not be to everyone's cup of tea.

lpitt

As Simon said I traded a modified MY98 for my CTR about a year ago and can comment pretty well on this:

The power band comes on around 5800 to 8200, in first grip can be lacking but other gears are fine (I quite like the occasional chirrup on the change up ).

It IS a totally different drive to the Scooby as it's a FWD iVTEC rather than a 4WD turbo. The power delivery is very different but once you get used to it VTEC is just as addictive as turbo but for different reasons. You just have to get used to thrashing it!

Bottom line, any UK standard Scooby is quicker 0-60 than a standard CTR but the CTR is quicker through the gears. A really well driven Scooby will beat a well driven CTR on the twisties, but not many of us are that good and so in practice it could be anyones race (whoops, did I say race!).

Your comment getting better with miles, I agree!

Mine's now done 12k and is going better than ever. Sounds and feels fantastic. I don't regret the swapover one bit.

IMHO: Both cars are as good as each other, it's all down to what you want

Laurence

Contigo

Cheers for the replies guys I am going to go and have a long hard think.

I have got used to hearing the Scoobysport exhaust and the dump valve () which are both quality.

A mate has the S2000 and with the roof down the power sounds awesome. I reckon that is quite a bit quicker than the Type R but will be outhandled in the wet by the Civic.

LG John

Ipitt I agree the CTR is very fast but despite thrashing the nutts off the one I drove I still don't see how it's quicker through the gears than a classic shape scooby. A bugeye yes but I still think a classic would nudge its nose in front.

Contigo

Who gives a flying which is quicker at the end of the day the Type R looks classier than both the classic and bug-eyed Impreza period!

LG John

I disagree with the styling thing. I think the CTR is a great looking car but I still think the classic scoobs look the business too. The bugeye's ain't my cup of tea but with some modification can look very good.

I think the CTR is the best hot-hatch by quite some way but I did get pi55ed off by the 'bye bye GTI' adverts because you can try all you like but all the CTR is, is a Honda Civic GTI. I felt the advert suggested it was something different.

rich a

here we go again....

LG John

It doesn't!!! The CTR is great cause it's the best hot-hatch out the box. The Impreza is great cause it's argueably the best compact saloon out the box. Either way the CTR is a hot-hatch and the impreza is a breathed on saloon car!

Contigo

rich mate I ain't turning this into an arguement.

Saxo boy (presumably you were one of the most common hot hatch drivers before purchasing your Scooby Vts was it?) your comment made me laugh about the Civic Gti. All I was doing was stating that the impreza is a hot saloon or modified sallon car at the end of the day. I own a Scooby UK turbo much like you and think that the Scooby is a bit dated and long in the tooth hence me wanting to change.

Now power is not the most important thing and I reckon that the CTR looks better.

Each to their own really.

LG John

Fair enough The VTS is rare as hell in scotland by the way. I've seen about 3 in about the last month and I've seen hundreds of scoobs in that time.

We can't argue looks as everyone has an opinion based on taste as opposed to fact. I think there is little point in arguing power as well as both cars are so close in terms of performance.

I guess all I have to say now is.......let it rain, let rain, let it rain

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

SB,
the ctr isnt actually the greatest hot hatch out of the box its actually the clio cup but then again if you read the latest copy of EVO magazine, the guy thought that his older pug 306 rallye was a better all round package over the ctr.... power is one thing, but there is more to life than power

Tony

D Noble

Saxoboy, you should come over to ayrshire....every spotty baseball capped yoof has one!

must say that the honda is better screwed together than the soob especially the classic(like mine) bits fall off every week and hardly a straight pannel on it(body flex??) if i was looking for a performance car for 15k id go for the honda, a hell of a car for the money! but then i need the fourdoor for familly and i love the soob to bits

regards
dave

LG John

True the 306 GTI/Rally were very highly regarded but time has moved on and their styling and interior is quite a bit behind the CTR and clio cup. I've been in the MKI Clio and was quite unimpressed, it was only very fractionally quicker than the VTS whereas the CTR was quite noticeably quicker.

Beware of cheap VTS imitations! The 16v badges are held on with a mastic like substance and spotty yoofs that can only afford to insure the VTR nick them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

We could argue best hatch all day, my point is that out of all the hatches you can buy new today I'd have the CTR if I was getting a hatch. 2nd place still goes to the VTS by the way which I still think is a fantastic car despite its age/image.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well im not the one who said that the ST170 was the better handling car out of the 2
The CTR is probably a good car but i dont think its the best hot hatch out there, if its competitors can still sell cars which have less power and more grip then it shows the CTR is flawed, and as ive said, if your going to look at one of these cars just because it has 200ps i would think again as that is its selling point, nothing else is (even the fact that it doesnt have A/C as standard [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] which is a must on a top of the range car) is somewhat annoying.
Now if you have alook at how many CTR's are up for sale and ive seen quite a few is that not telling you something?

Tony

lpitt

Comparing the CTR to a Pug 306 Rallye isn't really a good comparison as the Rallye is a cut-down 306 GTi-6 - which would have been fairer.

Two comments:

I agree about the lack of aircon on the CTR. When I bought mine I didn't see it as a problem as I never used it in the Scooby anyway. My mind was changed during two consecutive 7 hour drives home from Leeds and I recently had it fitted. Most dealers will give a BIG discount for A/C though so it's not that expensive really.

On the Clio Cup. Again, not a fair comparison to the CTR. But I did go in one yesterday (a brand new '52' plate'). Very, very rapid little car. Feels fantastic. Brilliant track car. I would highly recommend one of these to anyone thinking of spending 12k on a MINI. Again - pretty stripped out (rather like the Rallyes) but dead classy as well with it

Laurence

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

There are 17!! civic type r's for sale within 30 miles of me of which 4 are private, some are ex demos but the rest..... scary! (and the fact that they only had 1000 allocated to the uk!)

Tony

ScoobyKev

Contigo.

I know you want to, just buy a GT4. Looks are good, actually very sexy, performance/handling is good. The engine has been designed so it can be modded to give max performance. Have you ever been in mine m8.....LOL

Regards

Kev..

pisshead

FAO TonyBurns..
There are a lot of CTRs for sale.. most, even the new ones from various non-honda garages are imports (cos they know they can sell them). Honda UK are distributing 2500 a year to UK (3-4 per dealership per month). The excess you see are the imports.. Oh and your comment about "how many are for sale does'nt that tell you something", Have you taken a look at any motoring press recently or any car buying guides.. The CTR is UKs top hatchback for residuals because of (quote from Glass’s Guide Senior Editor, Jeff Paterson): “This is a classic example of a specialist car that is greatly in demand, combined with one that’s built to go the distance. Buyers can’t wait to get behind the wheel irrespective of whether it is a new or used example – and with Honda’s high quality and generous three year 90,000 mile warranty, they can confidently buy used."

Certain the CTR is not everyones cup of tea, but i've bought in confidence that i have a car that definatley turns heads, is fast, can beat most of its rivals, can go the distance, and holds its value. I would go as far as to say that the CTR will be a future classic... again though, i am slightly biased

Fugu

Contigo, if you want to buy something new/quick/practical and bullet-proof for around 15K, get the CTR, i'm glad i did.

Tony, reading your comments sounds suspiciously like you haven't even driven a CTR. Maybe you should take a leaf out of Saxoboy's book and don't dismiss other cars because they are regarded a scooby alternative and more importantly, drive one and then form an opinion based on the experience.
You're right there is more to a car than just power - bare this in mind when comparing the CTR against Clio Cup. i would rather spend my hard earned money on something which is well engineered - just look at the Cliosport website to read some horror stories about reliability and then realise why they are not in the same league....again though, i am also slightly biased.

lpitt

Apoligies in advance. I got up early and am crabby today!

TonyBurns: Why is it that whenever there's a thread that says anything other than a Scooby might be good you jump in to refute it? Most of us couldn't care less whether an Impreza is better or not and why you think anything except an Impreza is not very good.

I just did a search for CTR's within 40 miles of my postcode.
Result: 1
Same search for Bugeye Impreza
Result: 13

Hmmm....

IMHO: If you want a fast sub-20k car for day-to-day use then go for the CTR (or a Cooper 'S' if you must as they are nice, just not for me ). If you don't want day-to-day and do want loads of track then choose the Clio Cup instead.

Laurence
(It's not often that I post something inflammatory, now digging flame suit from mothballs)

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Honda are playing the Subaru game (we all should know what that is ) this keeps resedules up, but not for long....
When you see a 01 plated car going for 15995 with 10k on the clock at the dealer.... its called shooting yourself in the foot, Subaru too thought that this would keep the resedules of the Impreza up and it did, for a while.... then it dropped like a stone.
Sorry guys, i think when you come to sell your civics your going to be in for a little shock.
Re the 90k warranty.
Yup, good warranty until you miss a service by a few thou miles and then see what honda have to say!
the words like "oh if it would have been in at the correct interval we would have spotted this so its actually owners fault and therefore not valid".
People who offer long warranties do it for one reason, they know they can get out of em.
I would read your warranty document very carefully, it will have the likes of "no modifications outside factory specifications" and the likes, and with a car with 197bhp it will be very tempting to modify this car....
Laurance, yup ive been out in one (type r that is ) and yes its ok, nothing spectacular though, brakes felt really good, handling was ok, wheelspin in the wet was a bit tedious as ive got use to awd, gearchanges were nice and smooth but it was like driving my sisters picasso if you know what i mean? felt high up and out of place so didnt like that and the shape takes some getting use to (and i like torque in the midrange, it seemed gutless really) and my old 306 GTI-6 felt like it had more go (or just a better sounding engine?!)
Nice car just felt too dull (and the steering?? hmmmmmmm)
One last thing about resedules though, its actually the owners that really kill it off (dealers are suppose to sell for top money) but the owners doing the same will flatten the market as no one will want to buy second hand when you can buy the same for new!

Tony

Contigo

Well I can tell you that I'm nearly swayed and going to gof or it. the way I see it is that it's a nicer looking car,newer, and better built.

The Scooby is like a Clitoris now, every ****s got one

Gonna go and see if I can get them to throw A/C in cos that will too keep the residuals higher.

ScoobyKev

Contigo.

Don't get it m8 cus I'll be too jealous to speak to ya Nice motor looked at one yesterday silver and also red) and lloks fooking nice. Bodywork is sexy and the interior doesn't look like a nissan micra.

If you get it let me know and I'll show you how to drive it

Regards

Kev..

RichieB

Agree with Ipitt and Contigo...disagree with Tony....sorry Tone, Honda make classy cars, and they ALL maintain their value (OK apart from the Legend.) The trade puts build quality and desirability first. CTR has both, and I don't see that changing.

Cheers,

Rich

simon_prickett

If you want something a little more exclusive, get a new ITR. The CTR I have been out in a couple of times (Laurences) seems well screwed together, as does my parents bog standard previous generation Civic after 3 years of high mileage abuse, so looks like Honda make a good un. I ran an Accord in California for a while in 1996 and put some serious miles on that with no problems.

Just my 2p's worth.

Simon.