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Old 30 July 2018, 08:50 PM
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john_d
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Default renault trafic non runner

56 plate trafic

left the house and all was good, 2 minutes later coming to a junction i went from 3rd to 2nd and the engine died, i managed to get it restarted 2 or 3 times and all it did was idle rough (hunting) and stall after 5-10 seconds

tried again after work and it was still the same (didnt expect it to be any different), when i got it started I gave it some shoe about 2500-3000 and it still stalled, there are no error codes, when i did get it started i undid the fuel filler cap, the revs picked up but it still dies after a few seconds

any ideas?airlock perhaps?
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Old 31 July 2018, 02:52 AM
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Cam and or crank sensor murder for them
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Old 31 July 2018, 08:24 AM
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Depends on the engine. (Nissan M9R or Renault F8)

if if its the Renault F8 lump, try unplugging the MAF; Assuming it has a MAF...some don't! The EGRs stick and screw up the air flow measurements.

These are Bosch EDC...these only need cam sensor signal for starting. Once running it doesn't need the cam sensor, so that won't usually cause the stalling.

By by all means look for air bubbles in the clear fuel lines on the driver's side inner wing where the fuel filter is, give the hand pump some squeezes to see if it firms up (if it has one) as the plastic lines can fracture or rub-through (somewhere down the bulkhead area where it drops down to under the van if I remember right) causing a pin-hole allowing air and drain-back to the tank, although you usually get a fuel pressure fault code of some sort. If you can see live data via OBD you need about 100bar cranking for the injectors to open and allow starting, if it's running and the pressure drops to this or below, again injectors will stop opening and cause it to stall.

And dare I say; While your fiddling under the bonnet look at the state of the fuel injectors...Has rainwater been collecting in the voids of the cam cover causing them to rust into the head? If so, ticking time bomb for big bills.







Last edited by ALi-B; 31 July 2018 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 31 July 2018, 11:45 AM
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Not sure which engine it is other than a dirty 1 lol, I disconnected the maf and it made no difference, it will start and run lumpy for 5-10 seconds if it's left, but if I try to start it after it stalls it won't unless it's left again
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Old 31 July 2018, 02:39 PM
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Renault lump

Does it have any clear fuel pipes or a hand pump (squeezy bulb by the fuel filter)?

If the fuel pipes seem OK, then I still think the EGR maybe stuck fully open denying the engine of enough air to combust : It's fairly easy to get at bar the bottom bolt

These valve tend to come out in two halves...the solenoid bit comes off easy, I think you maybe able to pull it shut by getting some grips on the little bit of shaft sticking out, see if it moves. It should be spring loaded so if it's sticking you will soon find out by working it by hand. Pull it shut, see if it starts (solenoid still removed).

If you want to remove the entire valve for inspection, it will need some persuasion to get it to budge: Light taps with a blunt chisel on the edges of the flange to get it to rotate and work it back and forth until you get enough of a gap to lever between the valve and the manifold and try and get a bit of wd40 in there.

Heres a pic I stole of how it normally comes out:


I have had one where the end of the valve came adrift and got stuck in the manifold blocking it entirely, but I'm sure that was a Nissan lump (my memory really is really as rusty ).

Normally before they fail you sometimes get a intermittent 'lag' of power like huge turbo lag...usually when you want the power the most or just after starting from cold and you try and give it some beans and it just sits there idling. Our Megane used to do it every once in a while (same engine)...typically when trying accelerate out of a busy junction onto a fast road.

Last edited by ALi-B; 31 July 2018 at 02:53 PM. Reason: brain fart
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Old 31 July 2018, 09:37 PM
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thanks for that, there are no bubbles that i can see in the fuel lines, i have removed the complete egr (your right it was in there tight), the spring seems nice and free, i wont be able to re-install in and try again until tomorrow morning

should i just fit the solenoid part to see if it starts and how it runs if it does?
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Old 01 August 2018, 08:47 AM
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Whilst it's out, you can try starting it without the valve installed, it will make a right racket, but it should idle once settled. If not problem is probably elsewhere and I've just wasted your time (sorry ).

Anyway make sure it's shut, then bolt the whole lot back on. You can leave the electric connector off the solenoid instead, as that will stop it from opening.



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Old 01 August 2018, 11:38 AM
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Well, typically, I went out to try and start it with the egr in place and it wouldn't start, removed the egr and it still wouldn't start
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Old 01 August 2018, 11:50 AM
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Do you know where the fuse or relay is for the fuel pump?
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Old 02 August 2018, 02:07 PM
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I may be able to take a screen grab of the fusebox layout at work...I'll need the reg number though. PM me if you like.
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Old 02 August 2018, 09:20 PM
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Hi, for some reason SN won't allow me upload pics via PM so I've had to stick them here.

Managed to get some grabs but they aren't that helpful as there are a load of variations for both the engine bay and dash fuse boxes. I grabbed what appears to be the most relevant, but I'd get a continuity tester across the top of every fuse.

In in the engine bay I look at fuses 2, or 9 and 10

and relay D, or relay 6, or Relays 2, 3 and 4.

cabin fusebox only has fuses 7 and 9 showing anything engine related.







Last edited by ALi-B; 02 August 2018 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 21 August 2018, 07:11 AM
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so running now or what?? :
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Old 21 August 2018, 08:00 AM
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john_d
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Nope still not running, moved house aswell so it's even further from where I live, I'll probably just pay someone to to it back then sell it for scrap as I don't really have the time to be faffing with it.
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Old 23 September 2018, 07:48 PM
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so got a decent code reader (and finally got the van towed )

got the following codes

P0341-3 CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CIRCUIT RANGE/PERFORMANCE
P0190-A FUEL PRESSURE SOLENOID VALVE CIRCUIT LOW INPUT
P0100-B MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR CIRCUIT HIGH INPUT
P0105-6 BOOST PRESSURE SENSOR CIRCUIT SIGNAL NOT PLAUSIBLE
P1882-0 P1882 fuel rail pressure sensor circuit
P1880-D
P1882-9

quite a list eh? i wasnt sure when these all appeared as the EML never came on it did run, so, a full charged battery, fresh diesel and i cleared the codes to reveal just 1

P0190-A FUEL PRESSURE SOLENIOD VALVE CIRCUIT LOW INPUT

so i am now not sure what to do as i really no longer need the van but ive wont get much for a van if its not running
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Old 25 September 2018, 12:13 PM
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joe v3sti
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I had a similar issue with mine around 280,000 miles. The timing chain had stretched and jumped a tooth or 2. So the sensors were out of sync. New genuine timing chain kit and a re time. Started and runs lovely. Currently on 325,000 miles with no problems
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Old 25 September 2018, 12:22 PM
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https://www.obd-codes.com/p0190
hth
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Old 26 September 2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM_Stig View Post

I strongly advise taking advice on websites that refer to generic 'P' fault codes and do not refer to a specific vehicle with caution. P0190 is generic P0190-A is not a generic code that looks like something from Op-com/Vaux-com.

Reason why is this is a Renault masquerading as a Nissan/Vauxhall. These are well known for given false/misleading or incorrect code descriptions, depending on equipment/software used and what code monkey translated it as when they wrote the software. Even with Renault kit that gives 'DF' suffix fault codes, these can have totally different descriptions for the same code depending on vehicle model/year.



What you linked to refers to the sensor on the fuel rail. But what John's code reader describes is short or open circuit to the solenoid valve on the high pressure pump. So what is right? Internet (that includes us btw LOL) or John's code reader?

Fuel pressure solenoid is circled here:







Check wires, one will be battery voltage with ignition on, other is switched to earth rapidly by engine ECU to vary fuel pressure. Rail pressure sensor is on the fuel rail, 3 wires, 5v, ground and signal.

These solonoids don't usually go wrong electrically (however the mechanical part can fail, particularly the O-rings...but this gives a different fault code, not a circuit fault), nor do the rail sensors. Hence check supply and wiring, this is where engine ECU connector pin outs are useful. Either way, all the wires end up behind the passenger headlamp below the coolant bottle...certainly worth checking multiplug connectors for corrosion (blue powder) on the connector pins.

Last edited by ALi-B; 27 September 2018 at 09:48 AM. Reason: 5v not 12v
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Old 27 September 2018, 09:33 PM
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thanks for the info, i'll have another look at the weekend and see what i find
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Old 09 October 2018, 10:20 PM
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so looked at the connections/wiring and all seems fine, tried to start it at the weekend with a fully charged battery and still nothing, it did (for around 0.5 sec) sound like it was going to catch but it didnt, im probably gonna try some sure start (or similar) just to see if it does actually start, that should rule out any sensors

if it is the fuel pump its off to the scrapies
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