Timpreza

I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of the scoob. I want something more affordable as insurance, tires, and fuel are getting a bit over the top. I'm thinking of buying a second hand Alfa 156, either a 1.6 or a 1.9JTD, not the selespeed.
It doesn't have to be that fast, but I want something that is a bit above normal traffic.
I love the styling and it's the only non-performance car I can think of that I would be able to live with.
It looks sporty but how sporty is it?(compared to cars of it's class, not a scoob)
Should I go for the petrol or the diesel?
I would prefer the petrol, just for the soundtrack and the revvy engine.

Big question however: How reliable is an Alfa? I know Alfa has a terrible reputation but are these new Alfa's still that unreliable?
They devaluate very fast, that's one of the main reasons for me to buy one, but also my main concern. Does this devaluation have a reason or is it just because of it's bad reputation?

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

I had a 2.0 156 back when they first came out. Had it as a company car for 12 months and loved it. Great styling, fantastic steering and I didn't have one problem with it over those 12 months.

I'd certainly have one again and fancy a test drive in the new GTA.

Never driven the 1.6 but the 2.0 was sweet with a good turn of speed. Had a 2.5 V6 for a week once and whilst it sounded great I didn't feel it was that much better then the 2.0.

Richard.

Reidy

friend of mine had a new 156 last year that was delivered with some of the dashboard hanging off.

But I've heard that they rectified it and since then it has been problem free.

brickboy

The JTD is supposed to be good, I've heard one and they sound cool -- really gruff and very punchy apparently. A mate has a 2.0 TS which has been completely reliable, and he likes it a lot. Small boot tho'.

logiclee

Tim,

Just what I did, used to have a UK Turbo Series McRae and I now have an Alfa 156 Selespeed Veloce.

Its been 100% reliable and has no rattles or trim problems. I had it on Alfa's PCP finance with agreed future value so over 3 years the maximum I will loose is £6000. I don't think £2k a year is bad depreciation.

If you can push to a 1.8 or 2.0 I would do as the 1.6 doesn't have the variable intake and loses some of the sporty rasp. The 2.0 I have averages about 30mpg on mixed spirited driving upto around 40mpg on a steady run out. The 2.4 5 cylinder JTD sounds very gruff and sporty but the 1.9 4 cylinder JTD sounds like any other diesel IMO.

The selepeed is great once you get used to it, takes about two weeks, just need to make sure any warrenty covers it. Only comes with 2.0TS and 3.2V6 GTA though. The selespeed was upgraded at the same time as the 147 came out around mid 2000 which cured nearly all of the actuator and electronic problems so don't discount it because of the early horror stories. The same Magneti Marrelli system is now fitted to Ferrari's, Maserati's, Aston Martins, and the BMW 330SMG.

On the driving front, get the Veloce spec which includes the sport pack. You get lowered and stiffened suspension, side skirts and 16" Alloys. I would say it is probably the best handling front wheel drive family saloon available and yes I have tried an Accord Type R. The steering is geared at just over 2 turns lock to lock which makes it very quick responding, the steering is also packed with feel. Perfomance is entertaining rather than awesome in the scoob. There is a distinct step in the power delivery of the 2.0 TS at around 3500rpm when the variable valve timing and intake geometry does its stuff, the enginge note changes at the same time to give a sporty rasp.

Don't have any regrets about getting mine.

Some pictures.







Lee





[Edited by logiclee - 6/6/2002 9:10:32 PM]

Timpreza

thanks logiclee, great little review.
What's wrong with me? I'm driving a scooby and I'm drooling at a family saloon

TRIGGER

Hired a 1.6 the other day and it was totally gutless - really needs to be the 1.8 or 2.0 if you go for petrol. Hired the JTD in Italy last year and it was fantastic. Great sound, great mid range power and to be honest as fast u need a car to be. Only real problem I had was the steering lock - couldnt get it round a multi storey car park in one turn !!!

Overall great car - I fancy swapping the Scooby for a GTA personally.

Timpreza

So the 1.9 JTD is a nicer engine than the 1.6? How's that possible? it's a diesel!? the 1.8 is getting a bit too expensive, that's the only reason for me to sell the scoob.
If the JTD is a more fun engine than the 1.6 than that's even better for my wallet. I'm afraid if I would buy a diesel I'll miss the petrol feel. high revving and screaming. I really love that. I'm the kind of guy that loves listening to mp3's of racecars, to give you an idea...

dba

For £350 the 2Ltr is transformed with an Autodelta remap.Revs to 7500,sharper throttle,torque a tad lower down and just downright faster.Plus Autodleta do a full ss exhaust and carbon airbox for about £600 fitted.Thats £1000 all in for a pretty decent PPP equivalent

sounds bloody luuurvley to

ps that is one shiney car Lee! Engine bay spotless!

pps to the guy whos thinking of buying one,they suck oil,a ltr every 1000 or even less when commuting in heavy traffic,less for normal traffic.A round trip on motorway of more than say 300 ,iles and you need to carry oil,I kid you not.





[Edited by dba - 6/7/2002 9:17:29 PM]

logiclee

dba.

I have also heard stories of heavy oil comnsumption but I've only put half a litre in during 5000 miles of mixed driving. . I dont give it an easy life either.

Lee

rhybeck

IF YOU HAVE HAD YOUR SPEED AND FRILLS FORM YOUR SCOOB AND IT NOW SEEMS EXPENCIVE MAY BE ITS TIME TO CHANGE BUT ARE YOU SURE ITS GOT TO BE A ALFA MY FREIND IS HALF ITAIAN AND IS AN ALFA NUT HE HAS HAD A SUD \ 33 \ 75 \ 155 AND HAS NOW GOT A 164 3L V6 C\LEAF
TOP ENGINE!!!S ERRRMMMMM THAT'S IT VERY POOR FIT AND FINISH AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE ELECTRICS E.G. SWITCHES.
IF YOU WANT RELIABLE ECONOMY GERMAN OR JAP BMW 318I OR HONDA ACCORD (TYPE R)

logiclee

rhybeck,

Caps Lock mate?

Early Alfa build quality was apalling but they realy have raised the game for the later 156's and 147's. Its not yet up to German standards but is every bit as good as Subaru.
The biggest problem in the UK seems to be the dealers who are not willing or unable to help when problems arise.

Lee

GaryC

Bull****. I had a 2.5 V6 156 for a year and covered 35000 miles. It never used a drop of oil. Before that I had a 145 Cloverleaf (same engine as on 2.0 156) and did 55000 in 2 years, likewise not a drop of oil.

The 156 is a great car. Built quality and handling are better than the impreza, and in a straight line, my 2.5 was as quick as my pre-PPPd MY99 upto 80mph. Looks? no contest. Better response from NA engine. Grip obviously not as good (FWD) but I never had a problem, and understeer is more prevalent in the impreza.

Engine note - the 2.0 sounds nice, the 2.5 V6 is beautiful (only an italian V8 and V12 sounds better), and the diesel is fine, 5-pot so off beat and gruff.

One thing to note - Alfa's front wheels are toed-in AND have c2 degrees of camber (helps the handling and corner grip - hence less understeer) but it does mean tyres can disolve as quickly as on the impreza

Great cars. The GTA will be an absolute stunner. As several journo's have called it - an STi with style!!

Chris L

Sorry Gary

Don't agree - we've had the 156 withdrawn from our company car list due to high levels of mechanical failure. The overwhelming reason has been engine damage due to high oil consumption. I love these cars and it is very hard for me to say this - I came very close to having one as a company car last year.

The big problem is that many of these are company cars and for that reason, the bonnet is not lifted between services and therefore low oil levels have not necessarily been spotted in time which has led to failures and their reputation for drinking oil.

I would seriously love a GTA - I think it is the best looking car on the road, but I would have to be honest and say I'm not 100% convinced. As long as the car is looked after I would hope you would be OK, but I think it is fair that you hear both sides of the story.

Chris

logiclee

Both my Father in law and Brother in law have company cars, neither of them lift the bonnett for anything other than screenwash.

Father in law has a Mondeo and the low oil pressure warning light was coming on when he braked or cornered sharply, "How longs it been doing that?" I asked "About a month but its in for its service in a few weeks" He replied. I checked the dipstick but there was no oil showing on it at all.

Buy an ex company car? Never.

Lee

GaryC

Sorry if you are offended by such a common use word.

'They' do not drink oil. Yours does, and 2 147 have that you know. My 156 was one of 9 on our fleet in 1998-1999 (3 V6s 6 2.0 - I left the company in 1999 so don't know beyond that), none had a single problem, none drank any oil. Likewise, my 2.0 145 was faultless. I was a member of the Alfa Owners club and no twin spark engine of any of the members that I knew had any oil consumption, and that was over 20 cars.

To put it into context, my MY99 drank over a litre of oil between each 7500 miles service, does that mean 'Impreza's drink oil at an alarming rate - don't buy one because of it'?? No!

Oh, and just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion

dba

of course you are Gary,and whether its a common word or not,starting your post with it implies I was talking shyte,which I wasn't.AFAIAC its a commonly held belief that the 2ltr Twinspark drinks oil,depending on useage,driving syle and of course,the oil.I can quote a well known tuner if you wish "be careful with the 10w40,may be to thin,and check every week,I've seen enough blown engines in my time".

They do or they don't,not worth argueing over,but I stand by my advice to any prospective Alfa owner,ignore the dipstick at your peril and don't use 0/5 w oils.

And I didn't say don't buy one because of it,they are great cars,which we seem to agree on! (on a track day the car nevr touched any,so it must be down to the hour and a half 20 mile commute I have,as the consumption is the same post mods)

I will throw in a smiley,so we know its light hearted

ps i love Imprezas as well,just too ugly to own

saxovts2000

Just my 10 pence worth but you could bouth be right.

No two cars are the same I've owned 2 saxo VTS and the first one had more problems than any car I have ever driven were as the one I have now has had just 2 or 3.

Saxos have been know to burn a litre of oil every 1k miles and that is what a Citroen Oil monkey told me.

Maybe one of you have had the few that are very good were as the other the few that are crap

hth Mike

p.s. I don't think the Impreza is ugly just not a pretty as other cars

Turboteeth

This morning I was "allowed" to sit in a GTA at a local car show and...a bit of the dash was hanging off!!!

However, it looked the dogs and I'd seriously consider trading in the Scoob for one if I could be assured of it's reliability (and had the spare cash)...

rich a

the gta didn't fair well in the latest evo mag up against twelve other cars,especially as the drive shaft failed on the test.

rich

logiclee

But most mags have rated the GTA very highly, even ahead of the sti UK in Car magazine, just have to wait and see what the build quality is like.

The talk of poor turning circle on this thread confuses me somewhat, the GTA is reported as being poor but the standard versions have a turning circle of 11.1m, identicle to a Mondeo's.
Have no problem with mine in carparks etc.

Lee

GaryC

All modern Alfa's have a a relatively poor turning circle - by product of the quick rack, but then the 'benchmark' 3-series has a taxi rivalling turning circle.

I never had a problem with either of my Alfa's turning circles - and if that is the only thing they can find to fault....

Pre-production cars are always pretty poor on the build quality front. Remember what the very first 'showroom' bug-eyed impreza'a were like? Alfa'a of old have suffered from dashboard rattles etc, but they have countered this on recent models by having a one-piece dash.

logiclee

Have just read the Evo article, they seem to go against what every other mag and TV program has said about the GTA?
Evo themselves rated the GTA as probably the best performance car of 2002 just two issues ago.

I seem to remember the MY01 Scoobs were also slated for being slow and heavy by a few mags when it came out?
Best advice is to have a drive yourself and see what you think, read the mags and take things lightly.

Lee

TonyG

I used to have a 146ti before I had the Scoob, and I really liked that car. Only problem I had was that the throttle potentiometer wore down(?) which caused the engine to surge a bit when it was on idle. That was cured under warranty, no problem with the local dealer then (was Speeds at the time). I test drove two cars when I swapped the 146 - a 156 2.5V6, lovely engine sound, good handling, was seriously thinking of buying it (Veloce spec, rear wing). Only one thing stopped me - the Subaru test drive.
I'd certainly consider buying another one.

dba

for a moderator Gary you a rather rude turn of phrase! I would ahve preferred to have had a sensible answer disagreeing with my opinion,which is what it is.Hope you don't have to referee any flames......

Its NOT bull****,I own the bloody car,and it takes oil in exactly the levels i describe.Thats 40 miles round trip in London traffic.Thats from my OWN experience.There are many on the Alfa bbs who will agree,and equally there are some who say there car doesn't drink.Depends on how you drive and what oil you use I suppose.I have 10w60 Millers Motorsport fwiw,but please don't tell me I'm talking bs when i'm simply offering advice from my own experience.I was in Clevelands in Aldershot and they have already had 2 147 2 ltrs in which have blown in less than 15k miles,due to lack of oil.



[Edited by dba - 6/8/2002 4:46:37 PM]

AliWrx Mk2

Sorry to raise an old thread BTT but i am thinking of getting rid of the scoob and getting a 2.4JTD Wagon. Have an My01 Wagon at the moment.

I like some others am getting a little tired of the scoob running costs. Don't get me wrong i love the car, and i know i will miss it but i feel its time to give my wallet some TLC instead.
Oh yeah and also i seem to collect speeding tickets in the scoob like their going out of fashion Im hoping getting a diesl will help.

Anyone else have any comments on the Alfa 156, either for or against. All greatfully received.
Cheers

Ali

logiclee

Ali,

Had my 156 just over a year now, nothing has gone wrong or broken and it hasn't needed a trip to the dealer other than for its service.
The dealer found the rear stub axle bushes split and replaced them under warranty without even asking even though my car is an EU import.

It doesn't feel anywere near as solid as a BMW or Audi though it doesn't shake and rattle like some will have you believe. The sport pack mine comes fitted with in the Veloce spec makes for a very firm ride (Eibach springs and Bilstien sports dampers) but only bad pot hole will cause a creak from the dash.

The 2.4JTD was 140bhp until the back end of 2002, the facelifted cars came with a 150bhp unit. Towards the back end of 2003 a 20V 2.4JTD is due with 170-180bhp.
The current units are not as economical as some 2.0l diesels with similar power but the spread of power and the sporty gruff engine note is worth it. I may even consider one next.

The only other comment I can give is that I have had 25 cars in 17 years, I have only kept two for over a year, the Alfa is one of them. I still love to drive it and have given it its first polish of the year last weekend

Lee

logiclee

Only other thing I will add Ali is the space issue with the sportwagon.

You have a MY01 Scoob Wagon, do you fill the boot space up with the seats up regularly?
The Sportwagon 156 has less boot space than the saloon with the rear seats in the normal position.
The advantage comes when you drop the seats in the sportwagon, gives quite a decent load area.
You can't drop the seats in the saloon.

Lee

Dales

I had one for 5 months last year. Spent about 12 weeks of that actually on the road. Only 12k on the clock when I bought it. Needed new gearbox, clutch, power steering. Main agents didn't have a clue how to fix it (had to fly an engineer over from Italy to diagnose one of the faults after 5 weeks of messing about).

Nice looking car, so so to drive, crap dealers, crap build.

AliWrx Mk2

Thanks Lee.
I will take a look at the Alfa site and see what they have to say on the subject. I have always liked the look of the car and looked at geting one before i got the scooby.

I need to get a wagon as i have a dog and he needs to travel in the back really so i will maybe go have a test drive this weekend and see what i think. Its the only way to find out really.

Apprecaite what has been said about reliability but they are supposed to have improved lately and every car has its problems, even the scoob!

At the end of the day i will be looking at getting a six month old car so if anything does go wrong then the dealer can sort it out.

Cheers

Ali