john banks

Looking for a bit of luxury to replace my 10 year old Legacy 3.0R with, don't really need the ground clearance of an SUV, so an AWD saloon will do. The D4 A8 reviews well and I'm not reading horror stories about reliability which just put me off a Range Rover.

Found a 63 plate A8 3.0 TDI quattro Exec on 3500 miles that might fit the bill, £27k off list, although I see on Broadspeed you can get £15k off a new one, it is good value compared to good A4/A6 quattro/Allroad/RR/X3/X5/X6/Cayenne/3 series X drive.

No need for silly power, 250 BHP with torque will do as in winter or on on long trips power isn't necessary, but I wonder what I get for going to the largest cars like the A8 in terms of luxury compared to A6?

RS6 V10 (C6) also in budget, but a bit mad having that and the GTR, and the power would be wasted?

Littleted

Test drive the Bi-Turbo A6 John then decide, appreciate if its Lux then A8 possible.
But that A6 my friend has, Ticks all the boxes for me apart from Looks. But if you get the 20inch wheels the cars like a rocket ship.

What about a second hand SClass Merc now that is Lux ? or u after 4wd ?

john banks

I would like something AWD for winter use, especially if getting rid of the Subaru, and I don't really want to use the GTR for it. I could get winter wheels and tyres for £2k, but something with a bit less power to the back and more ground clearance would be better, so an AWD saloon would be ideal.

A6 or A6 Allroad could be good, but just been offered a pre-reg A8 for £24k off list. The A8 doesn't really need any options, air suspension, nav, 8 speed auto, double glazing are all in. Upgraded audio options are expensive, but I can always do something aftermarket with that, but I doubt it will have any problems.

I don't know how different the A6 and A8 are in luxury terms.

Matteeboy

£24k off list?!!!! Wow!

Littleted; how does putting ridiculous sized wheels make the car a rocket ship?! Bigger wheels are heavier, fatter tyres drag more.

john banks

I am under no illusion they are holding up list prices but without the brand appeal of Range Rover & Mercedes, they have a real value somewhat lower. Savage depreciation calcs are based on list price, from a discounted price it looks quite reasonable.

The big question is whether it will ride anywhere near as well as a Range Rover. The model I'm looking at is on 19s (non run flats, and there is a spare ) which are not big for approx 2000kg vehicle on air suspension.

Littleted

sorry Matt crap English I just ment get it with 20s on looks better.

John if you get the A8 you have to get the FULL B&O setup, the proper deal, Its awsome

Matteeboy

I'd be shocked if it was anything less than VERY comfortable!

640d Gran Coupes are going for up to £25k off list!

john banks

There is a slight facelift just out, but there are always deals on nearly new A8 it seems, the deals I would go for would be pre facelift. +8 BHP on the engine doesn't really bother me either on this sort of car.

Trying to work it all out, haven't driven a saloon of this size/luxury. Shame to have AWD when had no need for it this winter, but some winters there is a lot of snow up here and I live on a hill, so really need a car with both. Wife can manage with 2WD and winter tyres. Want to keep the GTR and whilst it is ace in the snow on the right tyres which I don't have, the ground clearance make it a poor choice.

Just weight up that a nice old Lexus LS could do the luxury much cheaper, but I also don't want four cars.

Don't want to sound spoilt, nice problem to have etc, but struggling to decide. I've got the 10 year old Legacy in good mechanical order and I suspect it would do another 10 years.

A6 can be at least expensive to buy as A8 it seems, less well specced too, likely firmer riding except the expensive allroad on air.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Make sure you get the one with massage seats, thought about the a7? It's a bit wierd to look at but it's defiantly luxury without going massive on size of car.

john banks

Massage and B&O add many thousands, simply not worth it unless an optioned car came up at a good price, but I'm seeing few year old ones on 40000 miles with these options at similar price to virtually new ones.

I don't really get the looks of the A7. Love the A5, but not sure it would give the luxury feel or whether it would ride like a bedstead like it sounds many Audis do on steel springs and big wheels?

john banks

Then I see a 19000 mile C6 RS6 at the same price and keep telling myself it is silly to have two cars with silly power. I am beyond help. I probably need to try a few things without getting caught too deep in multiple salespeoples' webs.

Matteeboy

As you have a GTR, I'd get something different like a RR Sport (the new one).

john banks

Don't want to spend that much on an occasionally used winter/cruiser. No discounts or deals, but could still take a massive depreciation hit, and I couldn't justify that much also on a brand I have no faith in for reliability.

Matteeboy

TBH I'd be very nervous running anything made by LR (having had a duffer ourselves) - they seem to be very good when they aren't broken though.

Is the Phaeton AWD? Totally stealthy, very comfy, depreciate horrifically from new so can be picked up for peanuts.

I'd still consider a smallish soft roader like an X3 (with 35d engine) though. An A8 is a big lump to be lugged around occasionally. I really like driving our "high" van sometimes compared to the fairly low BM we had and now have.

One is petrol, one is diesel, one is manual, one automatic - just nice to have some variety. Both have pretty much all the toys expected of a modern comfy vehicle though; heated seats, climate, cruise, satnav, BT, auto wipers, etc, etc.

I'd just want something really different to the GTR - you don't really need mega power as the Nissan has bags of that. An X3 35d won't hang about and a lightly used one will be relatively cheap.

john banks

Phaeton is extremely heavy indeed as steel rather than aluminium, parts will not be cheap/available?

You've reviewed a previous 7 series I recall, is the luxury a massive step up from the X3?

The X3 35d weighs 1850kg from a quick good, A8 1830kg. X3 nearly new costs the same as A8. Am I trying to convince myself? Which would feel more special to drive, acceleration apart which might slightly favour the X3 as the A8 is 0-60 in about 6?

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Audi A8 for me would be the 4,2 tdi , with a remap 0-60 about 5.

Matteeboy

Yes I reviewed a 2006 750i and was pleasantly surprised but I suspect it's moved on a lot now. Lovely engine and chassis though.

I would think the A8 would feel much more "special" than the X3. A tricky one overall!

SPEN555

The expected 3 year and 4 year resuduals on X3's are one of the best out there.

The Audi A8 maybe on a par with the X3 to buy new but the resuduals I guess will not?

billythekid

John I have the RS6 and its a great car. Very good for day to day stuff - stays under the radar 95% of the time unless people know what it is.

Running costs are high though, and I just taxed mine (£490) put 4 tyres on it (£1100) and its due a service at the end of the month (£475). So best part of 2 grand in a month.

Not cheap, but in reality all cars need tyres etc etc.

Day to day, I get 10 to 12 mpg in town. High teens on longer runs and just around 20 on the motorway.

It is brutal though, and in terms of drive its going to be similar to your GT-R (if its stock) but with a bigger boot and bigger back seats.

Super smooth engine and massive torque.

The 2008 cars had 2nd gen MMI which is quite basic. The 2009 and 2010 cars have 3rd gen MMI which comes with much more advanced features, bigger screen, hard drive, SD slots etc.

I looked quite hard for a good 2009 car and it took a few months to find a decent one that had not been crashed and had reasonable miles and was in nice condition.

If you are interested in mods then the V10 will go to 700bhp with just a remap. Air filters and exhaust will see you hitting the limits of the turbos at about 720 ish.

I really don't know what I will change my RS for - I don't want a C7, not enough of a step forward IMHO over the C6 to justify the cost. The C6, so far, is the best RS6 by a mile. IMHO

john banks

Thanks billythekid.

Went to test the A8 today at a Merc dealer. Just as luxurious as I hoped, ride is brilliant on air suspension and 19s and it is super refined. The 3.0 diesel is perfect.

The dealer offered £200 discount on their advertised price whereas we asked for £1500 and then dropped to £1000, so we are £800 apart and they let us walk away at that and haven't called back since about 2pm.

So we went to an Audi dealer and they didn't have a Quattro A8, but we did try A6 and A7. The S line A7 on 20s road like a bedstead, the S line A6 on 18s was better but neither were anywhere near as good as the A8. The A4, A5, Q5 all had interiors that were a step down.

Our MkIV Legacy is 53 plate 3.0R saloon on 50000 miles in superb condition but only books at £2k, and that is what was offered against the A8. I think at private sale with it having a quiet stainless exhaust and all issues addressed to last for years it could do much better, but unless I SORN it I have to keep it insured whilst trying to sell it which causes trouble jiggling NCB around.

I would consider a pre reg from a broker which is £3.2k more than the best price we got to today on the 3500 mile example we drove, not sure if on 63 or 14 plate. The one the dealer today won't budge much on needs some paint on the front and rear bumpers which they will do, but I would pay more for a pre reg that didn't need it. Trading the Subaru in this situation is more awkward. At least we have a choice of car subject to deal.

john banks

Maybe, but the residuals are based on list. From £35k at 6 months old the residuals don't seem bad at all, from £62k they look horrific.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Here's something that might have solved your dilemma, sadly not available in the UK though:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/jaguar/xf/...-awd-road-test

Matteeboy

Jesus that is cr4p money for such a low mile Legacy!

Play some dealers off each other on the A8; I had five on the go and got a great price from our local dealer in the end.

john banks

10 year old "big" petrol engine though, when looking at Mercs they were pushing diesels used even for low miles, seems people are allergic to petrol motors even near Aberdeen!

Matteeboy

Just walked past a two tone 53 plate (same engine as yours) and it looked very tidy; a bargain for someone!

Talking go bargains (not to us!), mate's client turned up yesterday (to his work) in our old 335d!

john banks

Don't ask what he paid for it.

Dealer email back 24h after we left asking whether they could help, I suggested we split our remaining £800 difference. Awaiting their reply.

Matteeboy

Mildly exciting...

john banks

They won't budge. Neither will I. I think we'll draw it to a close and leave it at that.

Matteeboy

Over £400? Very very silly. Leave them to stew.

john banks

Indeed.

The two tone Legacy would be the Mk 3 I think, at 53 they just changed to Mk 4. Really pleased with how it polished up, so that is an achievement out of the negotiations if nothing else it made me do it. I did clay bar, wheels, polished exhausts, wax, interior. It would be interesting to keep it to see how long I can keep it nice for now.