Chip

After a slow start this year we've caught up and are on course to make about £700 this quarter. Probably rthe best investment I'll ever make. Returned over 18% tax free last year not including saving about 30% on our electricity usage.

Did anyone else buy these? If so , how are they performing and have you had any problems with them so far.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Dont they only last 10yrs? Then how much are thy to replace?

Richy P1984

Should be good for 25-30 years

tony de wonderful

Their yield decays though.

Chip

Yes by about 10% over 25 years which wont affect me as my panels are rated higher than my inverter for better efficiency.

Feed in tariff rises by RPI each April and is tax free.

mikescooby

iTrader: (2)

Always woundered whether they were worth getting

Saxo Boy

I sell them for a living. They are well worth it.

Chip

They most certainly are.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

But only if you buy them.

I'm hanging fire until the new generation are released, so yeah get some bought so they can shift the stock pile and start selling the cheaper greater output for less surface area, maintenance free new ones.

Richy P1984

To households and business's or on a larger scale - Solar Parks for example?

Saxo Boy

Efficiency in panels is improving as the technology moves forward. (approx 5% improvement in last 24 months)

However, the FIT drops at an even greater rate. (from 43p to 14.9p in same period)

Feel free to wait, the people that paid circa £15-17k for 4kW systems on 43p per kWh are laughing all the way to the bank while others 'wait' for the technoloy to get better.

Richy, we do anything from small household installs right the way up to large commercial buildings, farmers fields, etc.

Richy P1984

Interesting, I work on the environmental assessments for the larger farmers field installations 4MW - 20MW is the usual range of output that we deal with.

boomer

So the government (or rather, the taxpayer) are still paying people to heat the pavement (in the summer)?

mb

tony de wonderful

Ah I see. I think they are a great idea myself. If and when I own a home I'd think about it. Raping fellow taxpayers is something I suppose one learns to cope with?!

john banks

Kenny, how do the Scottish planners and neighbours consider these compared with turbines on agricultural land? There is above average sunshine, sloping to the South, but I wouldn't consider putting wind turbines on it although the wind levels are high. Neighbour has put them on her roof, but I wouldn't due to my roof construction and aesthetic, but I would consider putting them on land. There are 11000V cables crossing the middle of the land if that makes any difference and it is AGLV.

Saxo Boy

Boomer, the FIT isn't taxpayer funded. it's funded through "green levies" on your energy bill.

John, planning restrictions on solar is pretty minimum unless the building is listed or in a Conservation Area. Even at that there can be conflict in balancing 'green' policies against policies designed to conserve historic character.

Ground mounted systems are generally permitted development. They are however, a little more expensive than equivalent roof mounted solutions. Often with a ground mount it makes sense to offset the extra cost with a bigger system. If you have a single-phase power supply you are restricted to 4kW. Anything bigger requires you to make a G59 application where you are at the mercy of Scottish Power. However, with a 3-phase supply you can technically put 4kW on each line; that said, the FIT drops after 10kW so you'd usually only go to a 10kW system (40 panels).

The biggest problem you'd face is that you life in Fife and the Fife Planning Department are the biggest bunch of robbing barstewards going!!! They won't give any planning advice or even confirm whether you do/do not require planning permission unless you pay for it. Essentially, you are left to make your own interpretations of the General Permitted Development Order.

Richy P1984

What about Pre-Application, can you not go through that process? It can cost a small amount, but it gives you advice on how to move forward with a planning application, and in some cases, the Pre-App can be used as part of the planning application if you decide to go down that route.

I'm referring to England and Wales so it might be difficult up in the Arctic

Saxo Boy

When I worked in planning pre-app advice was free. In most LA's it still is. In Fife they charge to tell you if you need planning permission, they charge to apply for PP (obviously) and they charge to have them give you any sort of advice or guidance. So much for providing a public service!

Chip

One finds it very easy in fact.

danos14

iTrader: (8)

So what is the best way to get a 4 KW system set up. Wired straight to a feed in tariff or use the electric and sell what you don't use???

Chip

Dano, The panels will be wired into your system anyway. So say you generate 3.5kw in an hour and your using the tumble dryer at the same time at 3.2kh/hr then all of the electric that you use will be free. The bonus is that you will also be paid the feed in tariff for every kw that you generate as well. That's why it is such a no-brainer.

Take today, our panels were generating from approx 6am til 8pm tonight. Wife did 2 loads of washing, 1dishwasher load and cooked a few baked pots in the oven. As we were on max gen most of the day it has cost us nothing in electricity. But we will also be paid approx £12 for the 26kw of electricity that we have generated today as well.

Saxo Boy

What chip said. A south facing 30-degree system will produce 3434kWh per annum going by the SAP calc (in Scotland)

Until we have smart meter roll out the export rate is a deemed rate of 50%. As such, you make the following from the FIT:

3434 x 14.9p = £511
+
1717 x 4.64p = £80

TOTAL = £ 591

In addition to that, you have 3434kWh of free electricity to be used to run appliances in your home. If you can use 50% productively that's a saving of £257 if you normally pay 15p a unit. If you use 75%, its a saving of £386.

Basically, your total benefit for the year will be in the region of £850-1000 depending on your usage habits, etc. Also, remember that the FIT payments are index linked (RPI) and that electricity costs are typically rising 10% pa, which increases the value of your saving.

My job can be deeply frustrating; I know from meeting people like Chip who have panels that they are fantastic. However, the UK is full of the most sceptical and miserable bunch of gits imaginable and its certainly a challenge to convince people that its worthwhile.

danos14

iTrader: (8)

ah ok - thanks for the reply's.

so if you produce 3.4kw you get that as the feed in tariff at 14.9p per unit but also get to use that electric for free whilst the panels are producing electric? Night time electric will always be paid for?

I don't get what the 50% 4.6p is about??

Any advice on what panels to use/avoid?

Saxo Boy

That's all correct Danos.

The 50% at 4.6p is a 'deemed' export rate. Basically they pay you as if they you exported half your electricity because they can't measure how much you actually export. If/once you have a smart meter you'll be paid for exactly what you actually export.

We put our trust in independent tests by Photon Labs (www.photon.info) who test all the panels on the market. Cheap systems tend to be built around a panel like the Canadian Solar Inc panel, which is down near the bottom of the list. The salesperson will no doubt tell you it's the best thing since sliced bread and, if you had one installed, you'd be none the wiser because it will work and will make good power. However, panels at the top of the list make around 7.5-8% more power and that matters a lot over 20-years.

My advice, buy your solar panels from a renewable energy specialist. So many companies have turned their arm to solar (double glazing companies, local building firms, supermarkets, etc). The questions should be....what the heck do they know about solar and how to get the most out of a system?

danos14

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the reply, got my head around it now.

If you have 8K in the bank it does seem to be a no brainer...

^Qwerty^

I only have an E-W roof, so still worth doing, and would you put them on E or W or split them between both?

Saxo Boy

Danos, to be fair, I'd debt fund solar panels even if I didn't have the money in the bank. Profits well and truly take care of interest.

Generally with an E/W you do a split system. However, if you were restricted to choosing one, I'd recommend West. That way you have more power in the afternoon and evening when you are likely to use it, as opposed to the early hours of the morning when you are in your pit.

Rob_Impreza99

iTrader: (3)

Don't you need the sun and bright days to make these work, how many bright sunny weeks do we get a year ?

I like the idea of them, we have a few houses round our way that have had them fitted. To be honest though the ones they have chosen look hideous.

Chip

Nope , they don't need sunshine to work, just light, though granted in bright sunshine they will reach their peak performance.

Richy P1984

Fife do sound tight - so far all the Pre-app procedures I've looked into will cost between £50 - £2000. It all depends on how they classify the development.

Most the Borough / District councils seem to realise that its going to happen, and when you tell them the number of equivalent 90m tall 500kw wind turbines that could be put up instead, it doesn't seem to bad! Also Solar can be screened where as wind can't - and you can argue that its only temporary.