f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

How come every man and his dog describes himself these days as an engineer?

Next door's Sky system failed and they asked if I would be prepared to let the Sky engineer in when he came as they would be at work.

No problem... so about 40 minutes ago there is a knock on my door and there is something akin to a tramp stoood on my doorstep grunting in monosyllables about being the Sky engineer.

We go next door and he then proceeds to switch the box on and off a couple of times, takes a cursory glance at the dish, plugs something onto the cable... calls his manager to ask what the display means and then says they need a new box.... this is duly unpacked and connected and all is good even if his idea of replacing it where the original one was leaves a lot to be desired and the cables are hanging out everywhere.

He thrusts a piece of paper at me, grunts at me to sign and leaves.

Now the problem was fixed so that is good, but I don't see how someone who did little more than plug something in, had to ask his boss what it meant and then simply replaces the box can call themselves an engineer.

It's not just him, they're everywhere. The term engineer used to mean something.... now it seems to be used by anyone where the terms technician. mechanic, fitter, customer support etc. would be far more appropriate!

Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer, some muppet in a Sky van is not!

tony de wonderful

Sales engineer? Software engineer?

It's a load of bollocks but is a kind of 'job title inflation'; makes people feel better about themselves lol.

What would be a proper engineer though? Someone with a 'Charter'?

Big 'D'

Christ I hope I am not an over inflated aircraft engineer

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes, in my opinion that is exactly right!

tony de wonderful

What's the point though? I did a geology degree and some of the lecturers had got themselves charter status. All this meant was that they were douche bags IIRC.

Big 'D'

In my experience there is no substitute for experience when it comes to engineering, stuff the qualifications.

Only my opinion

wayne9t9

Just another example of the UK copying the US. Self important titles as stated above. Like in the Hangover film where the dentist calls himself a doctor. In the US vets call themselves doctors too. Lab technicians calling themselves scientists is the best one though.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Whilst I see what your saying you couldn't call yourself a doctor without the qualification and I feel the term engineer falls into the same category, or rather it should.... that's the problem!

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

I consider myself a 'proper' engineer. Corps of Royal Engineers. Don't really get more 'engineer-y' than that.

I agree with the OP (for once) though.

Prime example of people giving themselves job-titles that don't actually apply to them.......'BBC2's "the Apprentice". Wow, there are some seriously overblown, fantasy-like self-awarded bull$hit job titles on that programme for sure!! The term 'entrepreneur' seems to be banded around just as much as 'Engineer' I've noticed!

JackClark

I had a job where my title included Consultant, always hated it and in fact had business cards without the title on.

tony de wonderful

For whose benefit though?

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

An engineer will have a degree in a relevant discipline and almost certainly be a member of the appropriate chartered body. That's the definition, and nothing else is sufficient.

A mate of mine has a Higher National Certificate in Mechanical and Production Engineering, did a proper 1980s four year (civil service) engineering apprenticeship with the MoD, spent a further 17 1/2 years working in military engineering of various sorts and has spent more than the last ten years as a self-employed plumber. He's also an Associate of the Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering.

Is he entitled to call himself an engineer? No, and not according to the CIPHE either, as he doesn't have an engineering degree. He could probably apply to be registered as an 'Engineering Technician', but says he couldn't care less about further acronyms at his age (a view I entirely agree with).

Occasionally I become niggled when I see people who clearly aren't, with 'Engineer' written on their van or business cards, but as with so many things these days, I've learned not to get too excited about it.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

I'm an engineer

'a scoobynet engineer'

Big 'D'

Interesting debate

You can gain qualifications that would qualify you to use the title of doctor or engineer but that doesn't make you any better at the job. Would you rather have your engine rebuilt by a graduate automotive engineer that has very little experience or by the old guy down the road that has no qualification but has decades worth of experience?

skoobidude

Years ago when I was a Project Engineer I was looking for work and had a call from an agent.
Girl on phone said "I have some potential work for you.. I take it as you are an engineer that you can carry out vehicle MOTs?"
I said "How do you work that out? I take it you have my CV in front of you?"

It turned out she assumed as the word 'engine' was part of 'engineer' I could therefore carry out any task involving anything with an engine..

Nick

Big 'D'

Technically 'engine' is in some cases very integral to the word engineer as in the person who operates/controls the engines on for example on an aircraft or a ship will hold the position of engineer.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Servicing, maintaining and repairing equipment is the type of work a technician does. I'd certainly rather have my engine rebuilt by an experienced automotive technician.

An engineer, on the other hand, will be better able to perform finite element analysis on the gases in the combustion chamber, calculate the stresses on the cam shafts and the correct grade of steel to make them, and produce 3d solid models of the next generation of engine which is 10% lighter and 20% more efficient than its predecessor.

Different jobs, different skills, different titles.

Truss

iTrader: (2)

Nicked from good ol' wiki: An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems.

Im a gas "engineer", I studied mechanical engineering as well as various gas qualifications, but I consider myself a technician tbh.

Big 'D'

Totally disagree with you there

Are you saying that an engineer should not build me an engine? I think that it would be foolish to say, that just because an engineer potentially has a greater understanding of the finer elements/physics of the combustion engine that she/he would be any less suited to the job.

It would be interesting to know how many of the worlds engineering advances and marvels have actually been produced by "qualified engineers" and not by some clever boffin in a shed somewhere.

Big 'D'

Not to dis any quote from Wiki, I have pulled this out of the Oxford Dictionary

1a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer

2a person who controls an engine, especially on an aircraft or ship.

3a skilful contriver or originator of something:
the prime engineer of the approach

Big 'D'

The pyramids are an outstanding feat of structural "engineering" even by today's standards, I wonder if they were bothered about who was an engineer and who was a technician in 2584BC not to mention that engineering degrees were probably quite thin on the ground at that point

nyscooby

iTrader: (12)

Right.....

As a Marine engineer (ex) i earned my strips in 50+c boiler rooms.

True brit engineers wear purple between the gold bars?? see if anyone knows why....

You dont need a degree to be an engineer....

Stupid comment....

Big 'D'

100% agree with you

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Yes, absolutely. You've completely misunderstood my point, contrary to the common misconception, engineers aren't "better" than technicians. They're *different*.

An Engineer is unlikely to be able to build you an engine; he won't have the experience in handling heavy lumps of metal, undoing seized bolts, assembling complex parts by feel alone or knowing the clever short cuts which save time and make the job easier. He's not a mechanic, and might not even make a very good one if he tried.

What a suitably qualified Engineer can do, though, is *design* that engine - choose dimensions, materials, principles of operation, then model it mathematically, produce the CAD data to have prototypes machined, and perform forensic diagnostics on any units which fail to figure out exactly why they failed and how the design needs to be changed.

So, you're suggestingthat a Mechanical Engineer might also make a good mechanic? Perhaps, but not necessarily.

I might speculate that he'd have a better idea how to handle a spanner than even a very good mechanic would know how to program Matlab.

For my part, I'm a degree qualified Electronic Engineer - and no, I can't fix your stereo if it blows up. But I might be able to design you a new one that sounds just as good and doesn't go bang if you short the speaker leads together.

I agree. What do you reckon - 80%? 90%?

Pez

Even my 'official' job title is packing 'technician'... But I just stand there and watch cereal drop into a box. Certainly there's some degree of setting the machines up or troubleshooting when things go wrong but to me it's just a jumped up title that means jack all. I'm more of a technician of beer... Now that i can engineer into my life at nearly any time Lol

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

Please don't tell me you do lucky charms....I would actually be jealous!!

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

On friday nights im a lady garden engineer.

Pez

Nothing that exciting.... But I do work with the knitting nanas in the shreddies factory!!!!!! Lol

daviee

I did the old 1980s 4 year working apprenticeship 5 years of college and as per the dictionary make jet engine parts, but work in a company (Rolls Royce) making compressor blades for jet engines over the last 32 years been involved making compressor blades, forging and machining to the point that if I say travel on a 757 767 777 etc or any V2500 power aircraft chances are I have made bits in the engine. I currently make parts for V2500 and 2 stages for the XWB Trent and Trent 900 (A380). I basically work forging compressor blades from a slug about the size of a small torch in to post machined compressor blades. Can I call myself an engineer?

adamfitz

Thought this would be appropriate