speedking

At work we park in a public car park run by the council. We have annual passes that are like tax discs and so conveniently displayed on the windscreen. Most people leave them permanently in position.

A colleague received a ticket yesterday for 'Failing to display a valid pass'. The reason is that the corner of the windscreen was obscured by frost and so the pass was not immediately visible.

He has now entered the appeals procedure. Anyone have any idea of the likely outcome?

Precedents include fines being enforced when a pass fell off the windscreen even though the council has a record that a pass had been issued for that vehicle A fine being enforced when someone had a courtesy car and put the pass in that, but the registration didn't match. A fine being waived when the garage had put the driver's tax disc back in the wrong holder so it mainly obscured the parking pass and the driver hadn't noticed.

I have often put a note in a courtesy car with the pass from my vehicle and been OK. (Including a 4 week period while my engine was rebuilt.)

Will be interesting to see how this one turns out.

Graz

Jobsworths. There is no way I'd pay a fine related to that, it would be laughed out of any court in the land (hopefully!).

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Presumably he has sent a letter of represenatation to the council involved.

He will doubtless get a letter back saying thanks, but no thanks and he still has to pay.

He can then take it to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. He will waste a lot of time providing evidence for his case and filling in forms. When he attends the tribunal hearing either in person or via the phone he will probably find the council has sent a load of paperwork and failed to turn up to represent themselves.

The tribunal will find in his favour and cancel the ticket, but he will not be able to claim any costs as the stupid government (Labour) who put the tribunal system in place banned the claiming of costs except in extreme circumstances as 'it would discourage people from going through the process if costs may be awarded against them'.

The trouble is it just encourages councils to behave like this and there is nothing to stop them, they don't lose any money or even have to send someone to the hearing.

Ultimately it will probably cost him more in time and money to go through the hearing process rather than to just pay the ticket, but that's what they want of course!

Been there and done this and despite the fact that an enforcement officer blatantly lied about giving me a ticket I still couldn't get any costs even after appealing my initial tribunal judgement that was technically in my favour. Currently pursuing them via the small claims court directly!

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

frost obscuring permit.


Oh FFS, tell them to **** off

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You should have ignored it, telling them the frost must have made it fall off and you never saw it.

Oldun

Get on this site and feast your eyes..
http://www.pepipoo.com/

Leslie

He could always ask the court to order the council to issue the wardens with battery operated hair dryers to remove the frost!

Les

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

They would of took pictures of the screen so if its not frosted over it sort of kill his defence

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Ive seen traffic wardens in mk scrape snow off cars to see the ticket!

JDM_333

lol this doesn't suprise me, crazy! what is the process for the appeal in terms of arguing his side?

pslewis

They ALWAYS take photo's ........ it will be clear, without doubt, that there was no frost and no ticket.

Honestly, has anyone here had a windscreen frosted in just a single corner ... where it just so happens their tax disc is, for example?

I think they will bang them up for a very long time for perjury.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

If he is adamant it was on the screen, and obscured by frost or ice or whatever - write to whoever deals with parking enforcement, request that they disclose a copy of all evidence they intend to use to stand up their claim.

depending on what they produce, will determine how to proceed next.

pslewis

Do they have to dosclose all evidence without a formal/court process?

speedking

That is a mighty assumption. The cars are parked outdoors in the car park all day, and so the entire windscreen gets frosted over.

I don't doubt his integrity and fully expect a photo to be produced that will prove his case.

He has submitted an online appeal, it is impossible to phone up and talk to an actual human who could check that a pass is available for that registration

Beef

Islington council once whacked a fine on our works van for failing to display. We had a valid ticket, and the guy driving that day was sure it was visible, but ticket we got.

So we disputed it, and they sent back the photos showing that there was no ticket on show. Case closed they considered.

Until I pored over the pictures and found an area of the dash that was juuuuuuust big enough to completely contain the ticket that was not visible on any of the pictures. This was pointed out, along with a suggestion that the enforcement officer had deliberately taken the pictures so as not to show our ticket.

Case dropped. Muwahahaha.

All of that was done via email - took a few weeks to all go through, but no cost other than writing a few emails.

Oldun

For help in these situations follow the link in post #6

urban

iTrader: (1)

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Forget all this phoning up, asking for evidence, dialogue via letters etc.

The procedure is simple - you appeal online or in writing submitting a 'letter of representation' in which you must clearly state the circumstances and why you are contesting the ticket, if thats rejected you have to go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

Website and full information here:

Traffic Penalty Tribunal

This assumes the ticket was issued by a council or police officer. If it is a private firm the rules are different!

Leslie

Quite honestly, my screen was frosted all along the bottom 2 inches and about 5 inches up each side the other evening.

Les

AndyBaker

FFS

speedking

Ticket cancelled with apologies, but no explanation (just "issued in error")

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nice one, what council was this if you don't mind me asking... I am guessing not Manchester LOL!

speedking

Cheshire East.

Tidgy

lol, aka they relise they have been tools.

makes you wonder if you could take them to small claims court for your time and stress

Oldun

Reeeesult

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes well sounds like they are more sensible than Manchester who would have taken it all the way like they did with me despite the fact they had NO pictures at all LOL!

Leslie

Glad to hear it.

Les