Raising standards in the UK- thank you Gove
23 August 2012, 07:56 PM
#1
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Raising standards in the UK- thank you Gove
Thank god Michael Gove has the backbone to tackle the mockery Labour made of our exam system.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...inflation.html
When I grew up UK qualifications were internationally recognised as being some of the most rigid in the world and as such were worth their weight in gold.
Under Labour they became a joke. As a result of their social engineering where 'everybody is a winner' was the basic principle UK qualifications became a farce.
I've met countless young people with A grades who could not string a coherent sentence together let alone spell.
Employers and University heads have complained for years that people achieving so called A grades were struggling to read, write and add up. Labour ignored them.
It was another Labour magic trick. Just like they tried to convince everybody that they were rich by encouraging uncontrolled debt they wanted to convince everybody they were clever by handing out qualifications like they were sweets.
This was their theory behind having an arbitrary number of over 50% of school leavers attend University when there was no need for this.
Thank god Gove has the ***** to try and tackle this head on and try and bring some sense back to the system.
The Tories have disappointed me many times. However Gove for education and IDS for DWP have really come across as people with conviction, common sense and the good of the country at heart.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...inflation.html
When I grew up UK qualifications were internationally recognised as being some of the most rigid in the world and as such were worth their weight in gold.
Under Labour they became a joke. As a result of their social engineering where 'everybody is a winner' was the basic principle UK qualifications became a farce.
I've met countless young people with A grades who could not string a coherent sentence together let alone spell.
Employers and University heads have complained for years that people achieving so called A grades were struggling to read, write and add up. Labour ignored them.
It was another Labour magic trick. Just like they tried to convince everybody that they were rich by encouraging uncontrolled debt they wanted to convince everybody they were clever by handing out qualifications like they were sweets.
This was their theory behind having an arbitrary number of over 50% of school leavers attend University when there was no need for this.
Thank god Gove has the ***** to try and tackle this head on and try and bring some sense back to the system.
The Tories have disappointed me many times. However Gove for education and IDS for DWP have really come across as people with conviction, common sense and the good of the country at heart.
23 August 2012, 08:29 PM
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Although some automatically think of this years results as a negative, I thought about it and came to a similar conclusion to yourself, Ding. Unfortunately one year of more stringent marking won't offset the damage done by the previous lot, nor will one year help with the 'Mickey Mouse' subjects some were encouraged to study in order to hit targets. 
23 August 2012, 08:30 PM
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But don't you just get pi$$ed off with the little darlings waving their exam results at the news cameras this time every year.
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
23 August 2012, 08:51 PM
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But don't you just get pi$$ed off with the little darlings waving their exam results at the news cameras this time every year.
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
That's just not credible.
23 August 2012, 09:05 PM
#6
Apart from the ability to read, write and do basic arithmetic (none guaranteed) most school leavers have little to offer an employer other than a proven work ethic. Most courses and qualifications are irrelevant in the real world so it doesn't really matter which government does what. 
23 August 2012, 09:12 PM
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But don't you just get pi$$ed off with the little darlings waving their exam results at the news cameras this time every year.
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
The qualifications have been dumbed down so much how is an employer or university supposed to assess potential when all of them have the same 'A' star mega plus plus?
Thank god Michael Gove has the backbone to tackle the mockery Labour made of our exam system.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...inflation.html
When I grew up UK qualifications were internationally recognised as being some of the most rigid in the world and as such were worth their weight in gold.
Under Labour they became a joke. As a result of their social engineering where 'everybody is a winner' was the basic principle UK qualifications became a farce.
I've met countless young people with A grades who could not string a coherent sentence together let alone spell.
Employers and University heads have complained for years that people achieving so called A grades were struggling to read, write and add up. Labour ignored them.
It was another Labour magic trick. Just like they tried to convince everybody that they were rich by encouraging uncontrolled debt they wanted to convince everybody they were clever by handing out qualifications like they were sweets.
This was their theory behind having an arbitrary number of over 50% of school leavers attend University when there was no need for this.
Thank god Gove has the ***** to try and tackle this head on and try and bring some sense back to the system.
The Tories have disappointed me many times. However Gove for education and IDS for DWP have really come across as people with conviction, common sense and the good of the country at heart.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...inflation.html
When I grew up UK qualifications were internationally recognised as being some of the most rigid in the world and as such were worth their weight in gold.
Under Labour they became a joke. As a result of their social engineering where 'everybody is a winner' was the basic principle UK qualifications became a farce.
I've met countless young people with A grades who could not string a coherent sentence together let alone spell.
Employers and University heads have complained for years that people achieving so called A grades were struggling to read, write and add up. Labour ignored them.
It was another Labour magic trick. Just like they tried to convince everybody that they were rich by encouraging uncontrolled debt they wanted to convince everybody they were clever by handing out qualifications like they were sweets.
This was their theory behind having an arbitrary number of over 50% of school leavers attend University when there was no need for this.
Thank god Gove has the ***** to try and tackle this head on and try and bring some sense back to the system.
The Tories have disappointed me many times. However Gove for education and IDS for DWP have really come across as people with conviction, common sense and the good of the country at heart.
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23 August 2012, 09:21 PM
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My lad has just bagged 13 A*s and As. He certainly works a lot harder than I did at his age and I do think the standard of teaching he received was generally better.
23 August 2012, 09:26 PM
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I like what Gove is trying to achieve, but if the results are going to be dropping then so should the targets put on schools. We are guilty of offering courses that kids will basically pass if they turn up, that's not what it should be about! Some kids should be expected to fail but the targets set by the likes of OFSTED don't always allow this to be the case! It's a vicious circle!
23 August 2012, 09:29 PM
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Congrats on the grades though!
23 August 2012, 09:34 PM
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23 August 2012, 09:41 PM
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23 August 2012, 09:42 PM
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my observations are that teenagers (that i know, inc my daughter) work far far harder than I remember, both course work and Exams and especially homework
but there does seem to be quite a few "soft" subjects on offer, none of which my daughter studies btw
but there does seem to be quite a few "soft" subjects on offer, none of which my daughter studies btw
23 August 2012, 09:59 PM
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Although some automatically think of this years results as a negative, I thought about it and came to a similar conclusion to yourself, Ding. Unfortunately one year of more stringent marking won't offset the damage done by the previous lot, nor will one year help with the 'Mickey Mouse' subjects some were encouraged to study in order to hit targets.
Andy, I'm hoping that it will be more than just one year and the beginning of a trend.
Gove and IDS seem to be two politicians really driven more by conviction than public opinion. As such people may disagree with their politics but have to give them credit
23 August 2012, 09:59 PM
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whether its true or not i don't know,but i was amazed when i was told a few weeks ago,that kids who completed work experience are awarded an A grade GCSE 
...**** me when i was at school,work experience was something you did with no brownie points.
It is a bit puzzling how on one side of the coin you here school leavers getting better results each year,and on the other employers and the media reporting of these uni types/A graders not being able to read or have basic skills etc.
Always liked to listen to when our dad was at school,went to Grammar school etc,back in the 60's or something,right clever guy.I grew up thinking how clever he was,maths,science etc.I remember asking him one time when i was a kid how he was so clever and seemed to know just about anything,he said son,i was taught right at school,he said we had one teacher who would come to class every morning and write on the blackboard,only my best is good enough.You would get the cain or the slipper if you played up,but you were given a good education. Well he was anyhow,ok it was a Grammar school he went to,so i guess it wasn't like going to a run of the mill secondary school.
Its an X factor culture now a days...
...**** me when i was at school,work experience was something you did with no brownie points.It is a bit puzzling how on one side of the coin you here school leavers getting better results each year,and on the other employers and the media reporting of these uni types/A graders not being able to read or have basic skills etc.
Always liked to listen to when our dad was at school,went to Grammar school etc,back in the 60's or something,right clever guy.I grew up thinking how clever he was,maths,science etc.I remember asking him one time when i was a kid how he was so clever and seemed to know just about anything,he said son,i was taught right at school,he said we had one teacher who would come to class every morning and write on the blackboard,only my best is good enough.You would get the cain or the slipper if you played up,but you were given a good education. Well he was anyhow,ok it was a Grammar school he went to,so i guess it wasn't like going to a run of the mill secondary school.
Its an X factor culture now a days...
Last edited by DYK; 23 August 2012 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Don't type and drink
23 August 2012, 10:13 PM
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Why on earth should I feel threatened? Don't forget Tony, I studied Medicine not some mickey mouse nonsense like Sociology
I despair that the qualifications in this country have been devalued to a point where they mean nothing. I'm saddened that this has happened, and I'm not the only one. For years employers, business leaders and university heads have been saying the same thing.
23 August 2012, 10:42 PM
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Me too. I'm relatively young at 28, but I remember in 2000 when I sat my GCSE's we were doing on the main proper subjects. We HAD to do various English exams including Reading & Writing, Literature and Language. We had to do a Double Science Award covering the three main Sciences. We had to do Maths, at least one language and the specific Design & Technology discipline we had chosen 2 years previously and studied. Then it was 3 subjects from a whole host of choices. Specifically mine were GCSE P.E. (as I enjoyed the theory part of it), Information Technology and Art. That was 11 GCSE's I personally sat (some did around 12-14 who were particularly intelligent - I'm average as most of you can tell
).My little brother is 22 tomorrow and he attended the same Comprehensive School as me albeit 6 years behind. By the time he came to take his GCSE's in 2006 there were all sorts of changes made. Certain kids didn't need to take several lots of Maths, English and Science exams for example (core exams for basic skills I think you'll agree), rather they maybe took one of each and as stated above got GCSE grades for turning up to certain subjects.
You got marks for spelling your name right FFS This from my point of view was blatant "spin" on the Schools/Governers, whoever's behalf to falsify good grades in stupid nonsensical subjects. IMO these subjects are fine if you so wish to take them BUT not at the expense of the basics I listed above. Your Maths, English, Sciences, a Design Technology field (we did everything from metal work to cookery, wookwork to electronics, fashion design to graphical design) and at a stretch a language too. I remember in years 8 and 9 at Comprehensive School having to study two if not three languages as a minimum.For the record it was a normal state funded (AFAIK) School with normal teachers in a normal part of town.
24 August 2012, 07:06 AM
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When we went to a school open evening with Honey, our daughter, to help her decide what she wanted to do for GSCE’s
We came to the classroom with the ICT teachers in, they rather expectantly, asked if Honey had expressed an interest/desire to do ICT at GCSE - a little confused we asked why (as she certainly had not)
They replied she had got 100% in a test – one of only 2 people in her year (it is a very good school btw and come in the top 10% of all schools for results at GSCE and A level)
Wow we said – “what did the test consist of”
“Well” they said, and basically began to describe a process whereby top marks were simply achieved by following a pretty simple set of instructions.
Mmmmm we thought this is pretty basic stuff - and she is deffo not going to be doing that!!!!
Needless to say she is doing German, Spanish, History, Geography the Sciences as her choices (together with maths and English etc) – with Art as an after school subject as she enjoys it and is good at it – but has to do it in her own time – and the school cater for that
there does seem to be a culture of misleading children/parents with the relative worth of these soft subject -- "FrizBee studies" I call them.
as a result Oxbridge and the Russell group of unis just discount them full stop, whatever the grade achieved and most top employers will too
We came to the classroom with the ICT teachers in, they rather expectantly, asked if Honey had expressed an interest/desire to do ICT at GCSE - a little confused we asked why (as she certainly had not)
They replied she had got 100% in a test – one of only 2 people in her year (it is a very good school btw and come in the top 10% of all schools for results at GSCE and A level)
Wow we said – “what did the test consist of”
“Well” they said, and basically began to describe a process whereby top marks were simply achieved by following a pretty simple set of instructions.
Mmmmm we thought this is pretty basic stuff - and she is deffo not going to be doing that!!!!
Needless to say she is doing German, Spanish, History, Geography the Sciences as her choices (together with maths and English etc) – with Art as an after school subject as she enjoys it and is good at it – but has to do it in her own time – and the school cater for that
there does seem to be a culture of misleading children/parents with the relative worth of these soft subject -- "FrizBee studies" I call them.
as a result Oxbridge and the Russell group of unis just discount them full stop, whatever the grade achieved and most top employers will too
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 24 August 2012 at 07:18 AM.
24 August 2012, 10:22 AM
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They've been being dumbed down for years not just through NL's tenure not that that is what the OP would ant to hear of course as it's far easier to blame everything solely on NL.
Gove will turn out to be no different to the rest as soon as Cameron gets his teeth into him. He is not going to be the first prime minster for 30 years to preside over the population appearing to be becoming less educated.
If any of you think othewise you are deluded as to how modern politics works!
Gove will turn out to be no different to the rest as soon as Cameron gets his teeth into him. He is not going to be the first prime minster for 30 years to preside over the population appearing to be becoming less educated.
If any of you think othewise you are deluded as to how modern politics works!
24 August 2012, 10:39 AM
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So it's just a coincidence that results have improved at the same time we have seen improved schools, equipment, teachers and teaching practices??
Some people political bias is just so blinding, if you have kids of school age, you should go to bed every night thanking god we had a NL government that actually invested in our education system.
Hopefully Gove will continue this, by the look of some of the posts, I fear people actually want a return to the Thatcher era education system, i.e dilapidated school buildings, shortages of text book and dreadful teaching standards
btw Gove has said that he is not responsible for the lower exam results this year, so I'm surprised the OP is so keen to give him credit
Some people political bias is just so blinding, if you have kids of school age, you should go to bed every night thanking god we had a NL government that actually invested in our education system.
Hopefully Gove will continue this, by the look of some of the posts, I fear people actually want a return to the Thatcher era education system, i.e dilapidated school buildings, shortages of text book and dreadful teaching standards
btw Gove has said that he is not responsible for the lower exam results this year, so I'm surprised the OP is so keen to give him credit
Last edited by Martin2005; 24 August 2012 at 11:02 AM.
24 August 2012, 10:52 AM
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We came to the classroom with the ICT teachers in, they rather expectantly, asked if Honey had expressed an interest/desire to do ICT at GCSE - a little confused we asked why (as she certainly had not)
They replied she had got 100% in a test – one of only 2 people in her year (it is a very good school btw and come in the top 10% of all schools for results at GSCE and A level)
Wow we said – “what did the test consist of”
“Well” they said, and basically began to describe a process whereby top marks were simply achieved by following a pretty simple set of instructions.
Mmmmm we thought this is pretty basic stuff - and she is deffo not going to be doing that!!!!
They replied she had got 100% in a test – one of only 2 people in her year (it is a very good school btw and come in the top 10% of all schools for results at GSCE and A level)
Wow we said – “what did the test consist of”
“Well” they said, and basically began to describe a process whereby top marks were simply achieved by following a pretty simple set of instructions.
Mmmmm we thought this is pretty basic stuff - and she is deffo not going to be doing that!!!!
My daughter still has a £500 bet with me riding on being able to crack my neighbours WPA2 security on their router
24 August 2012, 11:05 AM
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So it's just a coincidence that results have improved at the same time we have seen improved schools, equipment, teachers and teaching practices??
Some people political bias is just so blinding, if you have kids of school age, you should go to bed every night thanking god we had a NL government that actually invested in our education system.
Hopefully Gove will continue this, by the look of some of the posts, I fear people actually want a return to the Thatcher era education system, i.e dilapidated school buildings, shortages of text book and dreadful teaching standards
btw Gove has said that he is not responsible for the lower exam results this year, so I'm surprised the OP is so keen to give him credit
Some people political bias is just so blinding, if you have kids of school age, you should go to bed every night thanking god we had a NL government that actually invested in our education system.
Hopefully Gove will continue this, by the look of some of the posts, I fear people actually want a return to the Thatcher era education system, i.e dilapidated school buildings, shortages of text book and dreadful teaching standards
btw Gove has said that he is not responsible for the lower exam results this year, so I'm surprised the OP is so keen to give him credit
24 August 2012, 11:49 AM
#26
First off, the present obsession with results has meant that schools teach ONLY what is on the syllabus and nothing else. Kids get a very narrow view of life.
Secondly, who decides what's on the tests? Government have an input, as do several think tanks with agendas.
So you get sciences which absolutely push the global warming/climate change idea without giving ANY of the other side.
You get maths which has loads of useless modern maths in, and none which would be useful for science or engineering. Maths is the tool of other subjects, NOT something to be studied on it's own until you get MUCH further in
24 August 2012, 12:13 PM
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I think I'm missing something here. Am I right in thinking that between 0.5 and 1.5% of students haven't got the grades they were expecting? Well that's only say 1 kid in every hundred so what's with the extreme language like "results falling off the cliff" and "we could be closed" business?
IIRC correctly A levels are marked from 0 to 300 points so it's easy for a uni to pick the top people just from that.
dl
IIRC correctly A levels are marked from 0 to 300 points so it's easy for a uni to pick the top people just from that.
dl
24 August 2012, 12:24 PM
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As an employer i have had some of these so called A grade kids on work placement with me and i will tell you now they are bloody shyte! all you can get out of them is "i got 5 A's 3 B's ect so i am brighter than you!,,, school leavers these days know nothing of any use compared to our good old days, all imho of course 
24 August 2012, 01:11 PM
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Surely an 0.4% drop in A*-C grades, both overall and in Maths, could be within the range of a statistical anomaly and is too small to be significant? As said above 4/1000 kids not achieving grade C is not going to destroy the country.