JohnSmith

I think this is VAT related LOL

I have a VAT return due, but if I am claiming back VAT for any expenses (ie mileage, goods purchased, tools etc) do I have to submit any receipts or do I just fill in the return and pay what is owed (or collect what is owed to me )

I have all the receipts, and I am claiming the 45p a mile etc so have a fuel receipt for every trip

I just need to know if I have to submit them all or just file them away in case they are ever needed

Ta

David Lock

Well it's on-line anyway these days.

No need to send receipts. They will want your bank details if any refunds due but they will have that anyway from previous returns.

You may get a VAT Inspection which is when they may check receipts. dl


Edit to add. You should keep all receipts and records for the last 6 years which is a pain but is the law.

greenonedave

Fill out your VAT return form, i.e vat on sales minus VAT on reclaims
then the Net VAT is due or refundable
Always keep all your receipts for at least 7 years,
You can not claim back the 45p per mile, you can only claim for VAT invoices.

JohnSmith

Thanks David, this is my first VAT return

Still getting used to it all, andit isn't due until 7/7/12 but its only upto 31/5/12

JohnSmith

My accounts software (online) lets me do an expense claim at 45p per mile and sorts out the VAT for me and adds the VAT to the reclaim bit

Kev_turbo

You can't claim 45p per mile AND fuel, it's one or the other

David Lock

OK so I presume that it an on-line return. Bit daunting at first but fairly straightforward the next time around.

TIP. When you register you will get a unique Registration Number, bloody great long thing. Write this down as you will need it and your chosen Password every time you log into the service.

dl

JohnSmith

Kev its the VAT on the fuel I am claiming back NOT the fuel AND 45p a mile

Kev_turbo

You can't claim anything on the fuel if you are claiming your 45p a mile AFAIK as the 45p covers the complete running of the vehicle. The same goes for your road tax, insurance, servicing, etc, etc.

You can't have your cake and eat it!!

JohnSmith

I am a limite company, VAT registered

When I submit an expense claim on the software it asks do I wish to claim back the VAT also, and then it brings up a note saying I must have a VAT receipt to cover that journey. The software has made the calculations not me

and FWIW its about 5 quid LOL, my name isn't Jimmy Carr

JohnSmith

Here goes and it is legitimate

Kev I am both the company and an employee, so as an employee I am claiming 45p per mile, and as a director and company owner I am claiming the VAT back on the fuel the employee has used

"If you pay a mileage allowance to your employees for business journeys made in either their own vehicle or a company car, you can reclaim VAT on the fuel element of those mileage payments.

How it works: Private vehicles

The mileage allowance for private cars is 40p per mile for the first 10,000 miles and 25p per mile for additional business miles driven in the same tax year. These rates have remained unchanged for more than six years and they are deemed to include an element of reimbursement for the vehicle’s other running costs.

To calculate the fuel only element you should refer to the HMRC advisory fuel only rates. These rates are re–issued at least every six months and the latest rates apply from 1st July 2008, though by concession they can be used from 1st June 2008.
In order to reclaim the VAT component of the fuel element, firms should retain VAT receipts to cover the amount of fuel that is deemed to be used in the business journey. When an employee submits an expense claim for business mileage he or she must state the engine size of their car, or the band it falls into, and provide VAT receipts for the fuel purchased. It does not matter that the employee initially purchased the fuel rather than the business."

Ant

I'll ask my mate jimmy

Kev_turbo

That was my point.

If the business is buying the fuel then the business (you) can claim the VAT.

If the employee (you) buys the fuel then you can claim 45p per mile for the business miles.

You cannot do both as either the business buys it (VAT claim) or the employee buys it (mileage claim)

It might only be a fiver but the VAT man likes sand in the vasaline before he shoves it where the sun don't shine!! Stay squeeky clean!!

JohnSmith

I can do both as the employee and owner

And as above it doesn't matter who buys the fuel

The company is paying ME 45p a mile

The company is claiming the VAT back on the fuel payments made based on the government guidlines ( I cannot alter these in my software package all I can do is put in the mileage, it works everything out for me)

Also It is perfectly ok to do this as long as I have fuel VAT receipts for the amount of fuel covered by the journey

Kev_turbo

I don't think you can. You are claiming an out of pocket expense from the company. This expense is due to you having bought fuel for your car from your own personal money i.e wages not company money. The receipt for this is yours personally as an employee and not the companies. At no point has the company bought this fuel so the company does not have a receipt for it hence nothing to use in a VAT claim.

If you were employed by AN Other Ltd and asked to go somewhere for work in your own car, which you have fuelled from your wages, you would submit an expenses form to the company stating you did x miles and you would be awarded x lots of 45p in expenses. You would not submit a receipt for a tank of fuel for doing say 30 miles on company business.

Lee247

Kevs right, John. You can only put actual receipts for fuel to your vat return.
You fill your car for say £60, on your vat return goes £50 purchase - £10 vat.
You cannot claim mileage on your vat return. The vat return is a Company document.
If you as a Director and your Compnay Secretary are PAYE, you could claim mileage, but the tax man might not take to kindly to it, as you are the Company and would be in effect, making a claim twice for fuel. I would forget about the mileage and keep things correct.

Devildog

Mate

Its not just the VAT regulations you need to consider but income tax as well.

The 45p a mile or whatever you are attempting to claim isn't just for fuel, its for all runnning expenses. Only an element of that relates to fuel.

If you pay the fuel as you the "employee" then the company can recover the VAT on the part of the 45p that relates to fuel that the company pays you, but the company can't recover the VAT on the fuel vat invoice as well as the company did not directly incur the expense.

If the company pays the fuel it can recover the vat on the invoice, but then you cannot claim the 45p allowance without it being treated as income which will be a personal liability to tax. Also, you will be taxed on the fuel for personal use as it has been paid for by the company and will be treated as a benefit.

You need to work out what is financially most efficient from both income tax and VAT perspectives and then work out whether you buy the fuel and claim the expense or the comany buys the fuel and you have a taxable fuel benefit.

Have you also considered "selling" the car to the company and then treating it as a company car? yes you'd pay tax on the benefit, but the company could set off all the running costs against profit which may overall be more advantageous than the cost of the taxable benefit.

You may own the company and be its director, but you and the company are two separate legal entites, so to say you are the company is completely innacurate.

Thats why anyone in your position should always hire a good accountant to give guidance on this.

hodgy0_2

JImmy Carr has s good one

Scooby Soon!

Accountant asap! You are way out of your depth, even if the car was owned by the company you can not claim back all of the VAT you use a fuel scale and you definitely cant claim the mileage rate at the same time.

JohnSmith

Ok, Now I am confused as the software only lets me put in the number of miles and then asks me if I wish to claim the VAT back

This is what it then shows on my expense claim

Car Mileage 50 miles at £0.45/mile (£1.58 is the VAT at 20.0 in £0.19/mile)

As it currently stands the company owes me 2 months wages and about 800 quid in expenses, but I havent paid myself anything yet as I am trying to build the business up and keep money in for the time being

If I removed all the mileage claims the VAT man would still owe me money for this first return

But I am recording everything I possibly can and letting the software sort everything out, and I have previously spoke to an accountant, they advised the 45p a mile is the best option and to not bother with 'selling' my car to the company, or 'leasing' etc

From what I can gather it is NOT the VAT on the fuel receipt the software is claiming back, it is only the VAT on the mileage claim, but it needs to have a VAT receipt on that date

JohnSmith

This is exactly what my software is doing for me, i'm just **** at explaining it here LOL

Scooby Soon!

Computer programs won't do the books for you if you're not putting the right information in to them, I'm not sure what you specialise in but stick to it and let an accountant stick to doing your books for you.

JohnSmith

I know the software won't do my books for me, and I do admit that some of it is a bit odd (for me whilst I get my head round it all) but this mileage thing, the only thing I have to do is put how many miles my journey was

This is the screen I get (although more simplified as I am the only person)

http://www.freeagent.com/support/kb/...leage-uk-users

Lee247

I'll speak to you tomorrow

Devildog

LOL

Sorry I never got in touch - I'm always a bit wary on here of giving out personal contact details after a crazy stalker issue a few years ago

JohnSmith

It's ok mate, was never sure of you got the PM, i am not a stalker though LOL

Lots of things have happened since, but still the lies and deceit go on and directors disqual questionaire has been edited to lie so he wont get disqualified

It would be useful to still have a quick chat though

urban

iTrader: (1)

Jimmy Carr has the right ******* attitude I say!

Lee247

Has DD sorted you out, John

JohnSmith

No Lee (not as such) as that originally was for something different (still is)

Thinking about this

I buy something for work use (out of my own money) and claim it back on expenses. I add those expenses using the pre made categories (so the VAT etc is correct) and it automatically does the vat reclaim (if indeed in a VAT reclaimable category)

I have been doing my expenses and receipts etc most of the day so the books are all upto date and made my first PAYE payment LOL

Lee247

Sounds like you are making things mighty complicated