PM insists roads must be updated
19 March 2012, 06:13 PM
#1
PM insists roads must be updated
Yup he reckons we need private investors/firms so we can get an improvement on the roads we drive, errr why not just use the fecking road tax we pay to improve them and I'm sure there will be no problems?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17423693
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17423693
19 March 2012, 06:21 PM
#2
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as a note, are our taxes just collected into a big pot and divied?
or for expmle road tax used for roads?
how could this cost be justified when we already pay a tax for the pleasure?
i understand expansion, maintenance is costly, but is it not less than is aqquired through road tax.
initially the roads are only built once, barring improvemnts so surley are paid for amny times over, obviously discounting maintenance
or for expmle road tax used for roads?
how could this cost be justified when we already pay a tax for the pleasure?
i understand expansion, maintenance is costly, but is it not less than is aqquired through road tax.
initially the roads are only built once, barring improvemnts so surley are paid for amny times over, obviously discounting maintenance
19 March 2012, 06:50 PM
#7
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Tiny %age of ved goes to road budget, they appear to be suggesting that private co's pay the initial bill then taxpayer pays later per car that uses the new road. No idea how they will police that ...
TX.
TX.
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19 March 2012, 06:56 PM
#8
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this just an attempt to recoupe cash and tackle debt?
what about the hundreds of other issues, that could be tackled to reduce ineffeicency in this country.
what a poor path we've created for ourselves.
what about the hundreds of other issues, that could be tackled to reduce ineffeicency in this country.
what a poor path we've created for ourselves.
19 March 2012, 07:01 PM
#9
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LOL at the "make do and mend" comment.
So rather than spend more and take the pain of completely re-energising the rail industry in the UK to take the workload of freight movement, we take the cheap option of stuff motorways into private firms that will have us paying until eternity.
And to be fair, our motorways really aren't bad. They are actually perfectly acceptable - apart from that rumbly **** on the M42. Its the cities and towns where the roads are the worst and I doubt any private firms will adopt them.
The very worst roads I know in the UK are in Pontefract where the wifes folks are - the roads there are absolutely disgraceful.
So rather than spend more and take the pain of completely re-energising the rail industry in the UK to take the workload of freight movement, we take the cheap option of stuff motorways into private firms that will have us paying until eternity.
And to be fair, our motorways really aren't bad. They are actually perfectly acceptable - apart from that rumbly **** on the M42. Its the cities and towns where the roads are the worst and I doubt any private firms will adopt them.
The very worst roads I know in the UK are in Pontefract where the wifes folks are - the roads there are absolutely disgraceful.
19 March 2012, 07:02 PM
#10
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These new speed sections of motorway don't always work anyhow,The M6 through Birmingham is still congested just as it was before. 
And the M6 toll don't even bother,i'd still rather take my chances through Birmingham.
And the M6 toll don't even bother,i'd still rather take my chances through Birmingham.
19 March 2012, 07:35 PM
#11
I heard them say this morning that the idea was to give companies a slice of the VED income, allow them to use it to raise further income, from which they would have to maintain the roads to a decent standard and make a profit.
Now, see, it's those last three words that get me: why not just use the same slice of VED to maintain roads? Properly.
Their idea looks like yet another politician's scam idea to allow "the lads" to get their fingers into yet another pot of public money
And we should get on top of companies that tender for a job, then want more to complete it.
Or un-competitive tendering.
And especially get rid of the idea that it takes £40 BILLION and three years to do a job the French get done for £20 Billion in ONE YEAR!
They have the same EC H&S FFS! Look at what THEY get done BEFORE awarding contracts.
Now, see, it's those last three words that get me: why not just use the same slice of VED to maintain roads? Properly.
Their idea looks like yet another politician's scam idea to allow "the lads" to get their fingers into yet another pot of public money
And we should get on top of companies that tender for a job, then want more to complete it.
Or un-competitive tendering.
And especially get rid of the idea that it takes £40 BILLION and three years to do a job the French get done for £20 Billion in ONE YEAR!
They have the same EC H&S FFS! Look at what THEY get done BEFORE awarding contracts.
Last edited by alcazar; 19 March 2012 at 07:37 PM.
19 March 2012, 09:00 PM
#13
When most of the EU makes do with 2 lane motorways, why does UK the need 3 or 4 lane motorways? The answer is simple; Too many people work too far away and too much frieght is transported by road. Fix those two core issues and all that'd be needed is to fill the potholes.
Also I think what is done in current road managment is highly wasteful...
Bear in mind the highways agency and councils already use private firms to do much of their work...amost all road repairs have input from private contractors either in part or as a whole; The plant is privately owned and hired in, as are the temporary signs, lights, workers etc.
So we have contractors working for profit AND having to fund public servants to oversee them as well the HA/council employing labourers and equipment. Something needs to go. One or the other, we can't carry on with both as there isn't enough pie.
Nice little side story to this: One of our clients is a plant hire contractors (for plant and operators and labourers). The council employs him to dig up roads at the weekend....because he's cheaper than the council's own road labourers whom refuse to work for time and a half rates!!! This is why the public servants need to go IMO.
Also I think what is done in current road managment is highly wasteful...
Bear in mind the highways agency and councils already use private firms to do much of their work...amost all road repairs have input from private contractors either in part or as a whole; The plant is privately owned and hired in, as are the temporary signs, lights, workers etc.
So we have contractors working for profit AND having to fund public servants to oversee them as well the HA/council employing labourers and equipment. Something needs to go. One or the other, we can't carry on with both as there isn't enough pie.
Nice little side story to this: One of our clients is a plant hire contractors (for plant and operators and labourers). The council employs him to dig up roads at the weekend....because he's cheaper than the council's own road labourers whom refuse to work for time and a half rates!!! This is why the public servants need to go IMO.
Last edited by ALi-B; 19 March 2012 at 09:02 PM.
19 March 2012, 09:12 PM
#14
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ali-b you think public sector workers should work over there(thier) 40 hours without overtime rates being paid?
just a question to clarify, not a dig by anymeans
just a question to clarify, not a dig by anymeans
19 March 2012, 09:17 PM
#15
One Private contractor on the radio today said that for every 1 pound he spends on a road he expects 80 to be paid to him out of VED / taxpayers money..........
Blimey !
worse than PFI.
It would be cheaper for the Govt to simply borrow the money and build them .
Shaun
Blimey !
worse than PFI.
It would be cheaper for the Govt to simply borrow the money and build them .
Shaun
20 March 2012, 12:00 AM
#16
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Of course, we mustn't mention the elephant in the room at all. EU ...shhhhhhhhhh 
See ... http://witteringwitney.blogspot.co.u...s-pockets.html ... for WfW's take on it - with appropriate links to the EU docs.
They (politicians) really are taking the p!ss these days. Oh to own a piano wire shop .....
Dave
See ... http://witteringwitney.blogspot.co.u...s-pockets.html ... for WfW's take on it - with appropriate links to the EU docs. They (politicians) really are taking the p!ss these days. Oh to own a piano wire shop .....
Dave
20 March 2012, 10:26 AM
#17
The French is all government owned, except for their auroroutes, and they don't seem to have this problem.
Take their high speed rail lines:
THEY built Paris to Calais and Lille, over 240 miles of railway with sundry viaducts, tunnels and embankments, for LESS MONEY and in LESS TIME than it took us to build HS1, a mere 70 miles
20 March 2012, 11:52 AM
#19
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They take £42 billion in "road fund tax" off us, not not counting fuel duty of course, they say they lose £7 billion annually due to congestion etc., they spend £3billion annually on road maintainance, the mathematics does not compute there!
Why should the motorist's taxes be used to support all the other taxpayers in such a way. They should be more honest in the way that taxes are used.
Les
Why should the motorist's taxes be used to support all the other taxpayers in such a way. They should be more honest in the way that taxes are used.
Les
20 March 2012, 01:48 PM
#20
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Where is this money going if it's not being reinvested into the road infrastructure!!
20 March 2012, 01:53 PM
#21
Continuously fed concrete road surfacing. Done at a time when porper investment meant something....Would you belive those remaining "rumbly s**t" sections have not been resurfaced since the road was built in the early to mid 1980's?
Not good on the old shock absorbers mind, but you should replace them when they wear out anyway ...which nobody does (unless demanded by an MOT which is rare).
Compare that to the M6 across the north of Birmingham, which is silky smooth and quiet.... but needs resurfacing every 2 years!! And the last time they surfaced it, they fecked up the drainage so standing water collects in lane three, especially north bound between J5 and J7 .
I'd rather have concrete paving and regularly replace my shocks and suspension TBH....rather than suffer the bi-annual roadworks that last 3 to 5months.
Jef: They are paid overtime. 1.5 x wage. However two issues arise.... Council doing jobs at weekends which is not cost effective due to increased labour rates. And councils employing private contractors to do work instead of its own workers, meaning two entities are being employed to carry out works causing overlaps and duplication of job roles, which is highly inefficient and bad management.
Not good on the old shock absorbers mind, but you should replace them when they wear out anyway ...which nobody does (unless demanded by an MOT which is rare).
Compare that to the M6 across the north of Birmingham, which is silky smooth and quiet.... but needs resurfacing every 2 years!! And the last time they surfaced it, they fecked up the drainage so standing water collects in lane three, especially north bound between J5 and J7 .
I'd rather have concrete paving and regularly replace my shocks and suspension TBH....rather than suffer the bi-annual roadworks that last 3 to 5months.
Jef: They are paid overtime. 1.5 x wage. However two issues arise.... Council doing jobs at weekends which is not cost effective due to increased labour rates. And councils employing private contractors to do work instead of its own workers, meaning two entities are being employed to carry out works causing overlaps and duplication of job roles, which is highly inefficient and bad management.
Last edited by ALi-B; 20 March 2012 at 01:55 PM.
20 March 2012, 02:03 PM
#22
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I don't think our council laborers are any worse than the Australian ones.
I swear whenever I watched Aussie laborers digging up roads there was about one actually doing the digging and three just watching/supervising.
I swear whenever I watched Aussie laborers digging up roads there was about one actually doing the digging and three just watching/supervising.
20 March 2012, 02:17 PM
#23
NS04
There is no such thing as hypothecated taxes in the UK.......
everything the government takes in (TAX, NI, VAT, VED, duty, Corporation tax.....everything) is put into one big pot and spent.
Shaun
There is no such thing as hypothecated taxes in the UK.......
everything the government takes in (TAX, NI, VAT, VED, duty, Corporation tax.....everything) is put into one big pot and spent.
Shaun
20 March 2012, 02:21 PM
#24
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The fact is the government generates huge sums of tax revenue by exploiting the motorist, and only reinvests a tiny proportion.
20 March 2012, 02:33 PM
#26
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_Duty
TX.
Last edited by Terminator X; 20 March 2012 at 02:34 PM.
20 March 2012, 02:41 PM
#27
Most of the sectors that give the highest tax revenue fund the sectors that take the most from the coffers. For 2011 that is £121 Billion on NHS and £110billion on welfare.
Ignoring the £122 Billion forecast on public pensions as technically some of that is covered by our contributions...but not anywhere near enough due to the welfare issues (i.e those on welfare don't pay in enough) which makes the £4.1 billion spent on roads look miniscule!
Admittedly the balance sheet shows oddities, like £29.5 billion on 'accounting adjustments' and £18.9 billion on general govenment. I'm sure an extra £10 billion could be found....as how does a government (national and local) cost £18.9 billion when Police and law courts only cost £9billion!
Ah but they changed the name of it ... it's vehicle excise duty rather than road tax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_Duty
TX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_Duty
TX.
). And how much is spent on environment?.....erm. Not alot. Although those government subsidised eco-grants maybe costing a few bob.
Last edited by ALi-B; 20 March 2012 at 02:48 PM.
20 March 2012, 09:56 PM
#29
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Yeah, I get that Chip, but the question is WHY? And WHY CAN'T they get on top of it?
The French is all government owned, except for their auroroutes, and they don't seem to have this problem.
Take their high speed rail lines:
THEY built Paris to Calais and Lille, over 240 miles of railway with sundry viaducts, tunnels and embankments, for LESS MONEY and in LESS TIME than it took us to build HS1, a mere 70 miles
The French is all government owned, except for their auroroutes, and they don't seem to have this problem.
Take their high speed rail lines:
THEY built Paris to Calais and Lille, over 240 miles of railway with sundry viaducts, tunnels and embankments, for LESS MONEY and in LESS TIME than it took us to build HS1, a mere 70 miles
a candid quote by a certain D Cameron, but he knows best
20 March 2012, 10:40 PM
#30
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Does anyone actually know how much is collected on VED, and how much is spent on maintaining/improving the road network?
Be interesting to know what the difference actually is
Be interesting to know what the difference actually is