why is Greece so desperate to stay in the Euro?
21 February 2012, 10:21 PM
#1
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why is Greece so desperate to stay in the Euro?
As far as i can make out the Greeks would be much better off by 2020 to leave the Euro and devalue their currancy, i dont understand why the Greeks wont just vote out the Political parties that allow the these budget cuts
Also why will private companies accept such a massive loss on their Loans or is this due to pressure from Governments
Also why will private companies accept such a massive loss on their Loans or is this due to pressure from Governments
21 February 2012, 10:41 PM
#2
I think the problem is that if they devalue their currency they wont be able to afford to grow. When they changed from Drachma to Euro the currency was devalued by 14% overnight.
I really feel for the people of Greece, this mess is not of their own making.
The real problem seems to be that the figures were manipulated to get in.
I really feel for the people of Greece, this mess is not of their own making.
The real problem seems to be that the figures were manipulated to get in.
21 February 2012, 11:01 PM
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As far as i can make out we are lending Greece another 130 Billon despite knowing the current loans are losing 70% isnt this criminal behaviour by the commercial companies as they have a legal requirement to act in the best interest of the company not supporting the political agenda of federal europe so should refuse to write off the debts?
21 February 2012, 11:48 PM
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22 February 2012, 05:59 AM
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I think the euro zone countries are desperate to keep Greece in as well, if Greece did leave the euro it would set a precident for other struggling countries to do the same thing, which would in turn cause others to lose confidence in the currency.
22 February 2012, 10:05 AM
#6
.. apart from the fact their middle and upper classes would be runaway Olympic champions if tax-evasion was a competing sport, the lowliest of their public employees have benefit and retirement packages that would make our best paid bank directors blush, and some 300 occupations considered pretty darned ordinary by most people (such as hairdressing) qualify as "physically arduous" for the purposes of early retirement on 3/4 of full pay at 56, etc, etc, no, none of this mess is of their own making
Other professions like doctors pay no tax at all. However worthy and occupation , it is also a highly paid one. :cuckoo
Other examples - in Greece part of your annual tax assessment is based on the assets you own e.g. if you can afford a swimming pool you pay something for it- in theory. Circa 5% of those with pools checked via satellite photos actually admit to the pool and pay tax on it.
A wealthy suburb of Athens (likened to say Notting Hill in London by a friend of mine who is there once a month helping to try and organise some of the governmental financial stuff) with 18,000 households paid an aggregate of 80,000 euros in tax for the year a year or two ago - that gives you a feel for how much they've dug their own hole.
22 February 2012, 11:01 AM
#7
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+1
Other professions like doctors pay no tax at all. However worthy and occupation , it is also a highly paid one. :cuckoo
Other examples - in Greece part of your annual tax assessment is based on the assets you own e.g. if you can afford a swimming pool you pay something for it- in theory. Circa 5% of those with pools checked via satellite photos actually admit to the pool and pay tax on it.
A wealthy suburb of Athens (likened to say Notting Hill in London by a friend of mine who is there once a month helping to try and organise some of the governmental financial stuff) with 18,000 households paid an aggregate of 80,000 euros in tax for the year a year or two ago - that gives you a feel for how much they've dug their own hole.
Other professions like doctors pay no tax at all. However worthy and occupation , it is also a highly paid one. :cuckoo
Other examples - in Greece part of your annual tax assessment is based on the assets you own e.g. if you can afford a swimming pool you pay something for it- in theory. Circa 5% of those with pools checked via satellite photos actually admit to the pool and pay tax on it.
A wealthy suburb of Athens (likened to say Notting Hill in London by a friend of mine who is there once a month helping to try and organise some of the governmental financial stuff) with 18,000 households paid an aggregate of 80,000 euros in tax for the year a year or two ago - that gives you a feel for how much they've dug their own hole.
Dave
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22 February 2012, 11:25 AM
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Greece really should leave the Euro only the EU banks benefit by keeping them in. The Greek people of course have no say in the matter. The fear is that any Greek currency would be worthless on international markets but on the other hand that could help them to increase tourism and fund exports. The big fear for our European bosses is that the Greeks follow Icelands lead, default and then build a sucessfull debt free economy which proves to the the rest of Europe that Spain Italy and Portugal would all be better off to default and leave.
The very Idea of a democratic Europe where a nations citizens actually have a say in what happens has become a pipe dream. Now the big banks are in charge of all of us.
The very Idea of a democratic Europe where a nations citizens actually have a say in what happens has become a pipe dream. Now the big banks are in charge of all of us.
22 February 2012, 11:57 AM
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I believe a few Latin American countries defaulted but recovered reasonably quickly, much quicker than predictions for Greece's recovery. But all I hear about Greece is that it will take a generation to unravel and modernise the traditional rules and regulations which are like a straight jacket on growth.
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
22 February 2012, 12:08 PM
#10
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I believe a few Latin American countries defaulted but recovered reasonably quickly, much quicker than predictions for Greece's recovery. But all I hear about Greece is that it will take a generation to unravel and modernise the traditional rules and regulations which are like a straight jacket on growth.
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
22 February 2012, 01:19 PM
#13
At the moment it is artificially high, which helps enormously with the value of exports of which country?
Yep, our old friends the Germans.
And guess which banks have lots of Greek debt? The Germans and the French....
22 February 2012, 08:47 PM
#14
The bureaucratic idolistic policiticians dreamt up the euro and now cannot let it die, they will do anything to keep it alive including fooking up a poor small country for a generation. Greece will default as Fitch and sp have basically announced it is in default now. When Greece falls it will slowly start the ball rolling.
22 February 2012, 11:25 PM
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And this would, in turn, have a detrimental effect on the value of the Euro as a currency.
At the moment it is artificially high, which helps enormously with the value of exports of which country?
Yep, our old friends the Germans.
And guess which banks have lots of Greek debt? The Germans and the French....
At the moment it is artificially high, which helps enormously with the value of exports of which country?
Yep, our old friends the Germans.
And guess which banks have lots of Greek debt? The Germans and the French....
Dave
22 February 2012, 11:41 PM
#18
Greece really should leave the Euro only the EU banks benefit by keeping them in. The Greek people of course have no say in the matter. The fear is that any Greek currency would be worthless on international markets but on the other hand that could help them to increase tourism and fund exports. The big fear for our European bosses is that the Greeks follow Icelands lead, default and then build a sucessfull debt free economy which proves to the the rest of Europe that Spain Italy and Portugal would all be better off to default and leave.
The very Idea of a democratic Europe where a nations citizens actually have a say in what happens has become a pipe dream. Now the big banks are in charge of all of us.
The very Idea of a democratic Europe where a nations citizens actually have a say in what happens has become a pipe dream. Now the big banks are in charge of all of us.
I always wondered why our political masters were so keen on a bigger Europe and finally the most simple answer is probably the right one.
If we assume that politicians are only interested in themselves a d filling their pockets both now and in future, then the fact that the EU is the biggest player in town when it comes to well-paid positions for played-out national politicians is the reason why ensuring the survival of the EU trumps national interests for the political elite.
23 February 2012, 12:19 AM
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I believe a few Latin American countries defaulted but recovered reasonably quickly, much quicker than predictions for Greece's recovery. But all I hear about Greece is that it will take a generation to unravel and modernise the traditional rules and regulations which are like a straight jacket on growth.
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
I wouldn't think there is a cat in hell's chance of Greece meeting its obligations which will mean a third bail-out or exit from Euro.
dl
A more cynical person might think that the interests who own all the debt have disproportionate political power/influence, which means they will never have to take the necessary haircut for the system to move again.
And so the Greeks will be chained to a kind of impoverished debt-servitude for a generation.
The only winners are the debt holders who become a kind of economic elite, everyone toils in the fields whilst they sup wine in their villas so to speak.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 23 February 2012 at 12:20 AM.
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