David Lock

Does a new recruit have a right to ask for a copy of any references that have been sent by a previous employer to the new company?

Note this is a straight question and not about an employment dispute.

david

NOSSY_89

As far as I know you can.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I very much doubt it - it is private correspondence between two third parties.

Anyway - corporate references now are very simple - they merely confirm that you were employed between certain dates.

The old days of so and so was a good chap etc are way past!

urban

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure that they cannot

References are not worth the paper they're written on.
They can get you in a whole heap of **** at times too
I once received a reference request for a member of staff still in employment
Was an interesting conversion we subsequently had

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Get some proper HR advice.

Lot of guess work on here so far (no offense) and bad advice is worse than no advice.

That said, given it is illegal to provide a bad reference, if that was the reason for them not getting the job then I'd think they could legitimately ask to see it.

5t.

Leslie

Seems fair enough that you should be able to see what has been stated about you.

Les

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Quite.

Your obligation is to provide a true, accurate and fair reference. The reference must not give a misleading impression. However, as long as the reference is accurate and does not tend to mislead, there is no obligation on you to set out great detail or to be comprehensive.
Under the Data Protection Act 1998, confidential references which you give are exempt from disclosure

urban

iTrader: (1)

Indeed - which is why they're not worth the paper they're written on.

You get a reference which says "Joe was a great employee blah blah blah"
What they really wanted to say was "Joe was a tool and just about turned up each day before we sacked him"

David Lock

OK, thanks for input everyone.

Just to clarify. The reference in question was given by a university about someone who had applied for, and was subsequently offered, an NHS post in a specialist field.

The reference itself ran to 4 pages of detail and was strongly supportive of the candidate. It was probably this reference that tipped the scales in the candidate's favour (there were 80 applicants for this one post).

So I suggested to the candidate that they try and get a copy of the reference as it could be useful in any future applications and that they might not get the same details again from the uni.

Hence my question to SN as neither the candidate or myself are aware of the "rules" about this.

=======

One of my all time favourite reference quotes "Joe Bloggs carried out his duties entirely to his satisfaction"

d

[-(o)-]

iTrader: (1)

Should be able to under the DPA. Pretty much overrides any other rules/legislation.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public...cess_info.aspx

cster

Where does this "it is illegal to give a bad reference" stuff come from?
I would have thought such matters would come under defamation/libel laws, in which case you should be able to put anything that is truthful in a reference - ie good or bad.
Is this not so?
Having said that - I did once give a reference that simply said Caveat Emptor - and they still employed the person - in a Credit Card company of all places.
They actually phoned me up and asked if I would trust the person with money - since they did not say whose money it was (ie mine), I said yes.

scoobyster

I'd say you'd be better approaching the referee, given they gave such a favourable reference it sounds like they're on side already. Avoids the risk of spooking your present employer or falling foul of any data protection procedures they have; the referee is just a person for this purpose so can happily give you a copy if they want to. You can take the opportunity to sincerely thank the referee, and explain why you'd like a copy for the future. That said, a uni tutor will be doing these all the time so is bound to keep them ready to change the name and address and send it out again.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of guess work

The Zohan

Usually what is asked is when they where employed (to and from), what role/job and would you employ them again.

David Lock

Thanks - I think that is sensible suggestion Scoobyster.

d

Trout

iTrader: (1)

For the truth...


...basically if the reference is stated as confidential you cannot retrieve from the source and the recipient, under law, is not obliged to give it to you.

Writing and Requesting Personal References
Introduction

The Data Protection Act 1998 provides an exemption for confidential references given or to be given by a data controller for specified purposes, including education, employment or training, from subject access. However, this does not apply when the data controller is the recipient of the reference. Therefore, a reference written by an employee and stored in a relevant filing system would not be accessible to the data subject (the individual about whom the reference was written) if they sought access. If, however, they sought access from the recipient, i.e. a potential employer, the reference may be accessible under the Act. This clearly also applies for references from external sources, such as previous employers and head teachers. This applies even when the reference is marked confidential.

If a data controller is a recipient of the reference and a data subject seeks rights to that reference under the Act, the data controller must determine whether the referee intended the reference to remain confidential. If the referee did not intend the reference to remain confidential and/or agrees to the release of the reference then the data subject must be given access to the reference.

The name of the referee is personal data and must not be revealed to the subject of the reference without the referee's explicit permission.

If the referee did intend the reference to be confidential, the data controller is legally obliged to take steps to try to conceal the identity of the referee by removing all references, direct or indirect, to the identity of the referee before the document can be released. This may include editing or blanking out parts or sections of the reference which contain information that could lead to the exposure of the referee's identity.

If, having taken all the above measures, the data controller deems that the reference can not be released without revealing the referee's identity, the data controller may apply the exemption provided in the Act and refuse the data subject access to the reference.

It is important to note that:

If a data controller is the reference recipient, there is no automatic right to apply the exemption and refuse access, even if the reference was intended to be confidential.
The decision about whether the reference can be disclosed to the data subject, subject to suitable measures being implemented to conceal the referee's identity, is the data controller's and not the referee's.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Which is why I put "that said" and didn't make it definative.

Thanks for not paying attention.

5t.

David Lock

Are you the chap from "Yes, Minister"?




Thanks btw, d

paulr

Quite a few of my previous managers have told me they would give a verbel reference if i wanted one. For example i apply for a job, they ask for a reference and i give the name and phone number of a previous manager. They ring the manager and get a personal/verbal reference.

austinwrx

my tip for giving refs for bad employees is just write:

billy was employed from 2001- 2010.


and thats that. don't give yourself a headache having to defend stuff later.


i've just spent 5 days in an employment tribunal. trust me you want to be super safe over recruitment in case some nut job puts in a false claim.

which is what happened to me and 4 other recruiters. however we won easily, but it was still 5 days sweating it out.

NOSSY_89

Heard about a similar thing on the radio yesterday.

austinwrx

I loved the part at my court hearing where my barister reduced the claimant to tears.

basically this fool was lying so much, when a full blown barrister goes to work on you, he tears you to shreds.