Altruism
03 July 2011, 10:12 AM
#2
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Isnt altuiristic just doing something unselfish for others ?
Do you mean this as in hero stuff or just as in with virtue.
In the case of hero stuff... NO
In the case of acting unselfishly towards other, then YES
Do you mean this as in hero stuff or just as in with virtue.
In the case of hero stuff... NO
In the case of acting unselfishly towards other, then YES
03 July 2011, 04:22 PM
#7
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A few months ago I was in the queue buying petrol, the girl in front of had trouble paying, her card was refused, she was obviously in some distress and in tears as she tried to call her parents
I was beckoned forward to pay – I paid for my petrol and told the cashier I would pay for hers as well
I did not offer her the chance to pay me back etc,
I suppose I just wish she wasn’t driving a Range Rover
I was beckoned forward to pay – I paid for my petrol and told the cashier I would pay for hers as well
I did not offer her the chance to pay me back etc,
I suppose I just wish she wasn’t driving a Range Rover
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03 July 2011, 06:28 PM
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A few months ago I was in the queue buying petrol, the girl in front of had trouble paying, her card was refused, she was obviously in some distress and in tears as she tried to call her parents
I was beckoned forward to pay – I paid for my petrol and told the cashier I would pay for hers as well
I did not offer her the chance to pay me back etc,
I suppose I just wish she wasn’t driving a Range Rover
I was beckoned forward to pay – I paid for my petrol and told the cashier I would pay for hers as well
I did not offer her the chance to pay me back etc,
I suppose I just wish she wasn’t driving a Range Rover
03 July 2011, 09:36 PM
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04 July 2011, 04:09 AM
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No.
I have done a few things for others for no apparent gain, but doing those things fetched me happiness, and made me feel like a better person. Some of my non-official compassionate acts didn't fetch me any happiness but sheer heartache. However, I ultimately gained happiness for absorbing that heartache. Considering expectation to be the root cause of all the misery in this world, I didn't expect anything back in return for some of my unselfish deeds. But I expected and gained peace and happiness in return. So, there has always been a transaction. The day my expectations in return go down to absolute zero, I will call myself a natural.
I have done a few things for others for no apparent gain, but doing those things fetched me happiness, and made me feel like a better person. Some of my non-official compassionate acts didn't fetch me any happiness but sheer heartache. However, I ultimately gained happiness for absorbing that heartache. Considering expectation to be the root cause of all the misery in this world, I didn't expect anything back in return for some of my unselfish deeds. But I expected and gained peace and happiness in return. So, there has always been a transaction. The day my expectations in return go down to absolute zero, I will call myself a natural.
04 July 2011, 04:39 PM
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It could turn into a complex philosophical debate this one.
Some argue that self-interest is at the bottom of anything anyone does. I would probably agree... everything can be reduced to self-interest.
Some argue that self-interest is at the bottom of anything anyone does. I would probably agree... everything can be reduced to self-interest.
05 July 2011, 01:38 PM
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Les
05 July 2011, 01:42 PM
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05 July 2011, 02:05 PM
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05 July 2011, 03:11 PM
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Hello, Spoon. I really want to believe this. Take hodgy's example, I can't help feeling and thinking (and only hodgy will know this (or not if it's subconcious)) that there was some kind of reward mechanism in play, as TH and GK describe above. My mum does brilliant work with St. Luke's hospice (terminally-ill cancer patients) - she visits, holds their hand, makes them laugh, cleans, cooks and crys with them and then they die. Mum receives no financial reward, only a few of her circle of friends and family know of her work and she suffers every time one her clients (to whom she gets, in my view, to close) passes away. Altruistic? I really want to belive it is and I'm incredibly proud of her sacrifice but, I know that she needs to care for people. It isn't a truly selfless act.
05 July 2011, 03:46 PM
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Hello, Spoon. I really want to believe this. Take hodgy's example, I can't help feeling and thinking (and only hodgy will know this (or not if it's subconcious)) that there was some kind of reward mechanism in play, as TH and GK describe above. My mum does brilliant work with St. Luke's hospice (terminally-ill cancer patients) - she visits, holds their hand, makes them laugh, cleans, cooks and crys with them and then they die. Mum receives no financial reward, only a few of her circle of friends and family know of her work and she suffers every time one her clients (to whom she gets, in my view, to close) passes away. Altruistic? I really want to belive it is and I'm incredibly proud of her sacrifice but, I know that she needs to care for people. It isn't a truly selfless act.
Some people are born to put others first and certainly if their circumstances allow, it is made easier, it is natural. I can honestly say I've helped others to my cost on many occasions but then I never entered into helping to gain and a loss in someway is just that, a loss, no biggie.
Regardless of an individuals take on a truly altruistic act, you'll always have others being suspicious and if you like, pedantic where the word truly is concerned.
05 July 2011, 06:07 PM
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JT, I can't answer for your Mother, though what she does is simply top shelf and it isn't something she needs to keep telling people at every available opportunity making it more worthy in my book. My Mother did the same then moved onto another avenue equally daunting, all costing her financially too. Now she looks after several oldies in a non formal capacity, because she can. Does she 'need' to care? Possibly. However, it isn't necessary to her existence. I believe it is normal, she taught me so. The kind of 'normal' children today and even their parents never experienced or recognised, hence the mess this country is in.
Some people are born to put others first and certainly if their circumstances allow, it is made easier, it is natural. I can honestly say I've helped others to my cost on many occasions but then I never entered into helping to gain and a loss in someway is just that, a loss, no biggie.
Regardless of an individuals take on a truly altruistic act, you'll always have others being suspicious and if you like, pedantic where the word truly is concerned.
Some people are born to put others first and certainly if their circumstances allow, it is made easier, it is natural. I can honestly say I've helped others to my cost on many occasions but then I never entered into helping to gain and a loss in someway is just that, a loss, no biggie.
Regardless of an individuals take on a truly altruistic act, you'll always have others being suspicious and if you like, pedantic where the word truly is concerned.
05 July 2011, 06:22 PM
#25
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People never do what they 'truly' don't want to do. In the case of charity work, it might at first seem like selflessness, but surely it must please them more to do it than not. In day to day life it's probably not worth thinking about like that, but it's worth examining where people take the moral high ground. I certainly wouldn't criticise those doing charity work. I've thought about it myself, and I think there would be a bit of ego involved for me personally, unfortunately.
People naturally want to help each other though. Whether that's self interest or not doesn't really matter I don't think.
People naturally want to help each other though. Whether that's self interest or not doesn't really matter I don't think.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 05 July 2011 at 06:29 PM.
05 July 2011, 06:31 PM
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"Nice" behaviour often occurs in populations, but usually because it is part of a stable mixture of behaviours. Mutualistic behaviour is often the most beneficial behaviour for all parties concerned, but there are great rewards to be reaped by any individual who bucks the trend by receiving favours without reciprocating. If that (genetically determined) behaviour becomes too prevalent, however, the whole population may suffer and mutualistic behaviour regains the upper hand.
05 July 2011, 06:51 PM
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In animals, altruistic behaviour is often proportional to the genetic closeness of the giver to the receiver. Children first, brothers and sisters next, etc.
"Nice" behaviour often occurs in populations, but usually because it is part of a stable mixture of behaviours. Mutualistic behaviour is often the most beneficial behaviour for all parties concerned, but there are great rewards to be reaped by any individual who bucks the trend by receiving favours without reciprocating. If that (genetically determined) behaviour becomes too prevalent, however, the whole population may suffer and mutualistic behaviour regains the upper hand.
"Nice" behaviour often occurs in populations, but usually because it is part of a stable mixture of behaviours. Mutualistic behaviour is often the most beneficial behaviour for all parties concerned, but there are great rewards to be reaped by any individual who bucks the trend by receiving favours without reciprocating. If that (genetically determined) behaviour becomes too prevalent, however, the whole population may suffer and mutualistic behaviour regains the upper hand.