security123

Hello, Wanted to warn your members about the lack of security at Birmingham NCP Long Stay 1 Carpark. Had my M3 stolen from this onsite airport carpark on 04/06/2011 within 48 hours of parking. Only CCTV evidence shows my vehicle had tailgaiting an audi with stolen plates through the exit barrier, that had allowed the audi out.
NCP informed me they don't claim their carpark is 'secure', but I have seen third-party advertising them does. NCP do advertise this carpark with PARK MARK safety achievement given by the police, who has a massive station adjacent to this car park.
I'm very secure conscience about leaving my car, but given the recent killing of Bin Laden and heightened security of UK airport, I assumed this onsite airport would be secure. Unfortunately, I feel stupid and angry as I'm discovering a long standing problem with organised car thefts in BHX and it's connection to NCP and theft of high end vehicles.
Police informed me unlikely to get my car back as it's probably left UK in a container and on that note, doesn't appear to be actively doing anything. Realise people from BHX and long standing members of this forum are aware of this issue at NCP and has a thread in the .... DON'T.. but this alert reiterates they are still stealing cars from here.. Thanks

my06 ppp silver

iTrader: (2)

cheers for the heads up, dont use birmingham airport personally although similair instances have been known in liverpool and are probably the same at most airports. hope you get it back.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

bristol was the same a while back, the scum drive in in a stolen shed , buy a ticket and then leave in the top end motor using the sheds ticket , very hard to stop imho

Jaybird-UK

Given the almost criminal charges some of these carparks charge they should include theft cover

PaulC72

I have heard of cars going missing from many longstay secure (ish) carparks it isn't just a BHX problem.

Cars left for a long time are always at risk.

i hope you get it back though.

legb4rsk

Is it not possible to prevent tailgating on the exit?
They could have an area with a barrier behind & in front of the car with sensors that will only lift the front barrier when there is only one car on the sensors & a barrier behind that stays down until the first car has left.

security123

Copper said NCP priority is profits over security and the barrier is even made of plastic - so no problem for a thief, behind a high powered car who doesn't give a hoot.

I agree all car parks are attractive for thieves, especially airport ones where vehicles are left for long periods. I parked this within the perimeter of the airport and was duped by high enclosure, cctv, regular patrols and Park Mark safety achievement.

The high fence is no obstacle for thieves if they can nick your car and drive it out. The CCTV proved useless and looks like it's regularly patrolled - by thieves.

Any carpark that allows tailgating is a major security feature and highly effective for the thieves. Response from NCP Operations Manager is sorry to hear about the theft and the 'inconvenience'. I bought my M3, three years ago for 60k, it is in mint condition, less than 10k miles on the clock, just put 2 new rear tyres, which I'm sure the thieves appreciate and it's loss is more than just 'inconvenient'.

He continued to state NCP are public places and in the T&C that we park at our own risk and incase I didn't get the message of his indifference he ended with this response.

Why not save money and pre book your parking at www.ncp.co.uk next time?

Can't believe the cheek!

On a positive note, hope it makes us all re-think security measures at all carparks. Thanks

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to say this is VERY common for car parks at both the BHX (open ground and multi-story) and the NEC (and no doubt the International train station too).

Do a search on this site and you will find that you are not alone, there quite a few threads from people who have suffered similar to yourself over the years.

All I can say is relying solely on electronic security on a desirable car is inadequate; One needs physical means to immobilise the car. Such as a Thatcham approved Discklok or wheel clamp.

jono300

iTrader: (8)

But I thought they keep saying that breaking into houses for the keys off these high end vehicles is the new way to steal them since new security measures within cars were introduced ??

how the heck can they get past the latest / best immobiliers ?? surely code grabbers etc are a thing off the past and the new rolling / random generated code would make it impossible to start the vehicle - obviously not !!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I too thought recent cars were unaffected: Chip in keys, ECUs coded to body control units. Access/routines to recode keys/ECUs to BCUs etc.

But there are plenty of stories emerging on forums where recent newish cars have been stolen without the keys.

My thinking is cloned keys. Somewhere at BMW there is a database (maybe encrypted) which may well contain the key and coding details linking to each car's VIN; If that was leaked, and someone knew what to do with that data, well, bye bye car.

They've found out how to unlock them too; I've had both of my BMWs unlocked on the driveway (presumably to nick phones/satnavs/laptops etc). Both were definetely locked so not a jammer, but somehow they were unlocked without damage. Ironically I had a flyer in the post from teh police warning me of this and I laughed thinking it was rubbish (it was technically incorrect in explaining how they did it) and threw it away. Nothing nicked though; I only keep crap in my cars. They stole a set of keys to a bungalow that had been demolished....it had an address tag, I so would have loved to see their faces when they turned up to break in it only find nothing but rubble

If they can open the car like they did on mine, then without a key all they need to do is swap ECUs and force the steering lock, but then they need coding, but with the right tool, then maybe that is now possible (again)..its only six allen bolts under the bonnet. 10mins?

DYK

Nothing new here its being happening for some time at BHX and NEC.Many escape routes out from that place,you can take your pick of roads and vanish.

astraboy

I was going to suggest taking the ECU with you, but if, as Ali suggests, they're turning up with their own, it makes it rather pointless.

You just have to accept, if top end thieves of top end cars want your car, they're going to get it. In that situation, a disclok is probably your best bet. At least when they're scouting, they'll see it and maybe decide its too much noise/work/hassle and move on. Even top end thieves are lazy.
astraboy.

The Zohan

The NEC and airport parking have always been easy pickings for the local scumbags and professional gangs. I used to do a lot of events at the NEC and Metrohole hotel near there and car thief and crime was always a massive problem. The local chavs know the car parks are full of nice cars left unattended for periods of time in huge unsecured areas - recipe for trouble...

Nissan once parked a transporter load of 300zx's (when new) for the motorshow, they where stolen overnight, no one saw anything!

Staff have been known to be in on it as well. The stories i could tell...

Littleted

Only way round this is Tracker and Gap Insurance. and the Trackers get owned by the pros anyway, but at least youll get an SMS and can imobalize it for a bit.

Then the Gap takes care of your spangly new car, best 300 quid ive spent is GAP, i never worry now, ok my car i love but i have in my mind that i can ave a new un if it goes.

Just hope i never succumb to house rbbery under a knife

my06 ppp silver

iTrader: (2)

i swear by blackjax.

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

+1

bigredrob

used to have a renault 5 turbo, always took the steering wheel off if I parked it up for a while, took about 45secs, cant do that now airbags etc. last time I went away , had rx8 then, parked up and took the fuel injection relay with me.

Leslie

Thieving of one type or another is getting worse as time goes by.

If the governement does not start to really make life difficult for them with adequate gaol sentences and making prison an unpleasant experience they dont want to repeat, and the police don't get themselves sorted and take positive action instead of hiding behind the difficulties of tracking the theives down, the whole thing can only get worse.

Les

security123

Thanks everyone. Just come across this information and would appreciate any feedback.

http://www.info4security.com/story.a...sectioncode=10

When a vehicle exits the car park – which is run by National Car Parks (NCP) – the ANPR system automatically cross-checks the registration plate with the rest of the information to prevent 'swapping' car theft. When a mismatch is detected, an alarm alerts the operator who will then inspect the images and the data to assess whether or not a fraud is taking place. The barrier will not rise for the driver to exit the car park until the operator gives some form of authorisation.


Jon Hillier, sales manager at I-to-I (the Hamburg-based supplier which has provided Gatwick and Birmingham International Airports with ANPR systems), explained: "The system can check to see if the ticket belongs to your car, so if you were to swap tickets with me, for example, the ticket would not match and the barrier wouldn't raise itself." Simple enough
The gates open and close within 2.5 seconds, thereby preventing any tailgating and unauthorised entry by vehicles or pedestrians (but giving legitimate users fast and easy access)

First question this raises, would 2.5 seconds allow 2 cars out: Audi/M3?

The Zohan

What this does not take into account is the number plate from the car being driven in by the thieves being stuck onto the stolen car which can then be driven out. It just requires a spare plate and some double sided tape. All these thieves need to do is scout the car park for the car they want, drive in a sh*tter of a car, steal the 'nice' car and leave the car park leaving the ****ter car there. ANPR is simple and easily fooled with a little forethought. The staff at the car park are likely minimum wage and hardly likely to notice the swap. most wil have little command of Eeeengleeesh or understand UK registrations other than does it match... TBH the gate may well pen and close in 2.5 seconds however if the following car is right behind it will not hit the car it will stop as it touches otherwise there would be no end of claims against NCP for roof damage for motorists who are slow off of the mark pulling away.

security123

Yes, Zolan, you are right it's easy loophole by driving the sheds in. Just so angry that it will continue and as the reaction from the cops, is that my car has already left the UK, it's just so frustrating as they are probably fobbing me off.

That gone is 60 seconds gang operating in BHX, left Tara Tompkinsons BMW at this same airport. This shows direct link with this crap car park and organised gangs. My car is approx same value and think if they didn't want ship her's out of UK perhaps mine isn't. Given the logistics of exporting vehicles and the many pockets these scum got to dish out to, what would be the financial value of a vehicle worth?

Also feel stupid that I wasn't aware the thieves have cracked how to steal these cars without the keys (thread dated below is from 2009) and that programme on this morning isn't helping to educate owners that they can.

People are still saying that they need the keys - they don't and needs to use mechanical devices/tracker etc, not to prevent the *******, but to slow them down.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...=263890&page=7

stef_2010

iTrader: (3)

Obviously keys are not needed to steal a car, no matter what make/model it is

No matter how advanced the security is and how smart the boy that thought it up is theres ALWAYS somebody smarter around the corner

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Yes, Zolan, you are right it's easy loophole by driving the sheds in. Just so angry that it will continue and as the reaction from the cops, is that my car has already left the UK, it's just so frustrating as they are probably fobbing me off.

Why is giving you a realistic idea of where your car probably is "fobbing you off?"
The market for used car parts is huge. Just take a look on Ebay, Pistonheads, Autotrader to name but a few.
A well organised team will have a car stripped in hours, with all the parts ready to be passed n or shipped abroad in containers to Eastern Europe or Africa
If you want your stolen car back in the future, fit a Tracker .

The Zohan

Tracker is ok, only the cars tend to get put in steel (shipping) containers which block the tracker signal and left for a week to so to see if it is 'discovered'. in that time the battery is disconnected and the tracker battery runs down (28 days or so) or the tracker located and removed/disabled car then stripped or shipped. There are only so many places a tracker can be fitted and with a little knowledge you will know where to look and what to look for

If well organised and equipped the gang will shift the container - moved via truck to another location thus not leaving it in the last place the tracker showed the vehicle.

If you are stealing 30k+ cars it is worth a little investment. 30 or so cars a year and 1m turnover - you can see why it is big business and rewards v.s. small punishment if caught.



If they want your car they will find a way to take it. The only way of cracking down is to increase the sentences handed out to make it not worth it.

scoobeenut

I can't understand why the police don't set up trap cars. These car parks are well known hotspots for theft so should be easy to set up a sting operation. Surely this would have a good effect by catching a few ******* red handed or following the cars to catch more of the gang.

Eventualy word would go out that there were trap vehicles in the car park and the thieves would have to go elsewhere.

security123

I read recently that a car is being stolen in the UK every 6 minutes. Compared to all the other violent crimes in the UK, I can understand that our police force is under pressure with resources being cut and that vehicle theft vehicles is not high priority.

I can see, Zolan how lucrative this business is and with the overcrowded prisons can't see sentences increasing even when the police catch them.

I can summarise the communication with the police: they informed the theft, they have no CCTV from NCP and that my car is probably out of the UK - and that was that.

I do agree with your comments, s70rjw that the police have given me a realistic answer, but I wanted to hear that they have done some sort of investigation and looked into it, rather than being so matter of fact and resigned. I did suggest a 'stinger', but got interupted as they don't have the resources.

I was not aware that I needed a tracker and that's my fault due to my ignorance. Ever time it needed a service, or I wanted to talk to mechanics no one told me that thieves can break into these cars. I regret not being more active and ensuring I was up to date on current news on sites like this. With the bbc recently piece that modern cars are almost impossible to steal without the keys, I would have still believed this was the case. I have spent hours going through the posts and learnt tons of informative information and thank everyone for their educational comments and support.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Simple reason is budgets. If a car is set up, it must be surveilled 24/7. The car is funded from public funds, therefore it must be looked after. Added to that is the fact that if the car is made more attractive to thieves ie unlocked, then Police will be accused of agent provocateur tactics. Once an individual is caught, that's all you have, an individual caught. A defence solicitor arrives at the police station and advises the detainee to make no comment. So for £xxx, you have a detainee who claims he was simply going to "joy ride" who can only be sentenced to 6 months imprisonment. CPS will only authorise a TWOC charge. Lawyer will argue this is a summary only offence, so detainee stands a good chance of being bailed.
Unfortunately burglary, robbery and violent offences will always take precedence over autocrime. They carry far higher sentences and can be tried on indictment.

scoobeenut

So we have a vehicle parked in a controlled environment, the surveillance is the easy part and you don’t need to leave the car unlocked, it’s not labour intensive, can be done by CCTV, GPS tracking/covert surveillance etc. and I thought that car crime is generally linked to more organised criminals/gangs?

If we’re talking budgets I don’t think you could make it more cost effective, but I suppose burglary, robbery and violent crimes will take precedence even though these are often random and not premeditated.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunately monitoring the vehicle remotely CCTV isn't an option. CCTV won't effect arrests and CCTV is limited if you don't already know the offenders. Tracking device will recover the car, however if the thieves are forensically aware, this is all that will be achieved.
Covert surveillance is very labour intensive, the use of covert monitoring equipment would not be authorised (not proportionate) for such an operation.
I spent years enjoying such surveillance operations in the 80's and early 90's with great success and custodial sentences into double figures. Such operations are no longer as feasible due to the introduction of legislation to control the way police carry out surveillance operations.
As we are predominantly car enthusiasts on these forums, we see such things as a priority. As cars have to be insured , society does not see car crime in the same light as some of the other crimes you mention.

scoobeenut

So from what you are saying the police won't make attempts to catch car thieves in the act, and are unable or unwilling to catch them once the crime has been commited. It really isn't surprising that cars get stolen again and again from these car parks.

That old saying that crime doesn't pay is well and truly dead. I think its time for a career change, never really considered a life of car crime but with very little chance of being caught or punished I can see why so many choose this path.