Petem95

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13775278

They need to wake up and smell the coffee - the pensions being offered to public sector workers are totally ludacrus, and there is no way the country can afford them.

750,000 striking over having to increase contributions by 3%

fast bloke

At last, after 4881 posts, Pete is finally correct.


If you are a public sector worker and are considering going on strike, you are obviously in one of those menial posts where you don't need to be able to count to get the job. Private sector/self employed have been taking all the hits for the past 4 years. If you can't understand why I can't pay your ludicrous pension any more, then an evening course in year 8 Maths might help. If you can't understand it, go for something less complicated...When you get your exams, calculate why 1(my old income as a net tax contributor) minus 50% (my loss of income due to global recession) minus 5% (the VAT hikes) will no longer be the same as the 1 used to be. So my income has dropped a real 60% and you are bitching about yours dropping by 3% and you are hoping for support? It isn't like you contribute anything to the economy, so I reckon to be fair, you should get the same 60% that I have suffered, which doesn't even factor inflation.

scoobysewell69

hold on your not the only 1 paying taxes. public sector people pay them aswell so in theory there paying for there own pension. they probably contribute more to the economy than you tbh having more wages to spend. an extra day off to work on me car yes please!

fast bloke

erm - NO. Work it out. If we were all public sector on 30k a year paying 20 tax, how long would it take for us to run out of money???

One pay period is the answer.

Daryl

26,565 posts, and fast bloke still doesn't know what he's talking about.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I love this. Two years and the government has succeeded in making the public sector the Jews of the 21st century. The public sector is to blame for the recession and all the problems we have, because they have larger pensions

No mention of the banks, the government etc in all this.

And ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of the FACT that the public sector HAD it's own pension pot, which paid it's pensions, but the government nicked it years ago and PROMISED to pay the pensions from then on, so long as public sector workers paid their pension contributions direct to government.
To now turn round and say, "Well, we've had your pot, we've had your money for years, but because of the bankers and the government's ineptitude, we can't afford to pay your pensions any more........", is shameful.

And to make the public sector a hate figure, is worse.

Petem95

scoobysewell69

your talking a load of bullsh1t. 1) were re not all in the public sector and never will be and 2) all people who work in the public sector are not on £30k far from it. so unless you start talking some sense feel free to jog on..............

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

I'm sure I read somewhere that the NHS pension scheme is technically in SURPLUS. i.e. more being paid in than being paid out.

jonc

Remember, the public sector is funded by the taxes from the private sector, so fastbloke has a point. Paying taxes in the public sector is effectively paying back a proportion of your income from the Government from which was paid to you by the Government. A closed loop as it were and therefore not really contributing to the economy. Therefore contributions to pensions are ultimately funded by the private sector.

The public sector pension pot was raided by Gordon Brown to fund his party long before the financial crisis.

scoobysewell69

they are paying taxes like any1 else that works regardless of who they work for. i dont see what the problem is. if they feel they have a right to a better pension so be it, let them get on with it. i dont see how public sector workers going on strike should have an effect on any other working class person.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

It would be a pretty ineffective strike, if that were the case.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

I wonder just how many millions the government will save during a strike, all those hundreds of thousands of days unpaid. Or will it cost them?

What do you think?

Leslie

Have you no idea what would happen in this country if the public sector all went on strike?

Les

jonc

There isn't a problem. My point is that all the money that the Government spends, eg public sector gross salaries, all comes from the private sector. Therefore taxes from public sector salaries do not pay for their pensions.

Chip

Well as the last government took on an extra 1million+ extra public sector workers that would not surprise me. But you have to plan for the years ahead as well when that extra million of diversity officers etc retire.

Chip

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

Definitely a big net saving in the short term. Some things will still have to be done at additional cost at some point - like rubbish collection. But teachers and kids dont have to go in on a Saturday so that they can catch up with work missed at strike time.

chris-boris

iTrader: (7)

Have a read here:

http://www.professionalpensions.com/...tive-cash-flow

Panda82

well said fella,
I work in the public sector and have done for nearly 10 years and i dont earn anywhere near £30K in fact the majority of front line staff do not earn anywhere near that figure.
Dont beleive everything you read in the media as most of it is pure fabrication.
there are quite a few other reason why civil servants are striking not just over the pensions but also pay, privatisation relocation to name a few.

vindaloo

1/ Pension contributions need to rise because of low interest rates IMO. People are to some degree having their cake now, as loans are cheap and they have more money in their pocket (assuming they have a job). In a similar way to the dismal performance of most endowment mortgages, however, the economic conditions are having a bad effect on pension pots.

2/ Logically, therefore, pension contributions need to rise or benefits of the pension need to erode. You can give the employee a choice of contibution<->benefit options.

3/ Govt and unions are as bad as each other in some respects. Jockeying for position and tactical victories they can take to the next ACAS meeting.

4/ Most (younger) people in the UK don't have direct experience of a workplace union anymore IMO. Heavier and more dangerous and unpleasant industries have by and large moved offshore. And from late 1970s onwards, and certainly after the miners strikes, unionism has defintiely been seen as destructive.

J.

Gordo

The problem is that final salary pension schemes don't work as they're unsustainable. The private sector has been forced by the simple maths involved to address this (accelerated by Brown's outrageous £5bn a year tax on those pensions), but the public sector hasn't had to as a) no politician previously had the nuts to do it and b) the liability up until now hadn't become big enough to force it to be resolved.

That's now changed. It's not fair that the private sector (with now lower average pay than the public sector) should continue to fund the final salary schemes (which are more generous than many in the private sector were). Add the extra million public sector workers that were added through the last government's tenure and it's easy to see how, coupled with low stock and interest returns, how there is no option but to tackle this. Fast.

I suspect the public sector will get very little sympathy from the private sector over this - striking hurts everyone as it damages the economy (not just the immediate loss of tax income from the impact on trade, but the long term damage as it makes the UK unappealing for overseas investors to come anywhere near). Time for change.

Gordo

tony de wonderful

Is that a joke?

I hope you are not a Teacher because your argument is specious.

Public sector pay tax yes but it's just a portion of government spending being returned....a kind of accounting slight of hand.

Fact is the private sector (and borrowing) pays for Government fiscal budget.

Besides future public pension liabilities are liabilities the tax payer will have to bear. It's all a big ponzi scheme in effect.

Anyway spending money is just moving liquidity about, it is not wealth generation. Wealth generation is what the private sector does.

wrx sti ppp

absolutely agree. public sector workers are vilified and its unjust. people arent going on strike for having to pay an extra 3%...its the way the govt want to overturn final salaries. the majority of public sector workers are wilfully underpaid and do jobs a lot of people wouldnt do; have had pay freezes for a number of years; have little chance of increasing their pay as in the private sector.

when they go on strike the haters will miss them cos you aint gonna get the army stepping in like they did with the fire brigade strike...so who's gonna do the jobs of the binmen, lollypop ladies, teachers, social workers, benefits agency workers etc? these are essential services and they affect most of us. i am sick and tired of hearing public sector workers slagged off as if they are the reason this country is going down the toilet...rant over

tony de wonderful

Yep that is right it killed the UK's productivity and competitiveness in the 70's and early 80's.

There are only really a few places where 'big unions' exists now and mainly they are in the public sector, and this is because of collective bargaining: the Government being the single employer.

All unions are effectively are special interest groups which seeks to leverage their interests (the pay of their members) against everyone else....in this case the private sector and taxpayer.

The Tories really need to break up these Teaching unions and stop this nonsense. This will happen if the unions over-extend which I think they are doing...the public have zero sympathy with them.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I don't see why people get all agitated about the public sector pension thing, everybody has the option to go for a public sector job, you take any job on the terms that are offered, at the Police, five years ago I was on a lowish (for the industry) salary but I got flexi, decent holidays and I didn't have to worry about a pension, I paid towards it every month on those terms, maybe I wouldn't have taken the job in the first place if the pension wasn't part of the package.

I left the Police for another six grand salary at Woolies, then went contracting and was on £40 an hour, then went perm on double what I was on at the Police.

It isnt all about the salary.

scoobysewell69

no i am not a teacher far from it. i just dont understand why people have it in for the public sector. they are there to do a job and with out these people the country would be in a bigger mess than it already is. so its only right they are well paid and have a nice pension for when they retire. at the end of the day public sector pay the same amount of tax as the private sector regardless of where it goes or what it covers. in my opinion the people we need to have a go at are those who are sponging off the government, people who have no intentions of getting a job.

tony de wonderful

The Teachers are striking over a few quid a week, what do you expect? It's impossible to have sympathy with them given the state of the private sector.

tony de wonderful

Public sector employers are a net drain on the taxpayer. They pay less tax than they earn FFS. Do the maths.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

private pensions are a waste of time imho , the company one i am in was allright until they removed the final salary part . i have paid in for 15 years and worked out , using the company calculator , that if i retired tomorow i would need to live 13 years just to get my own money back that i have paid in . at the yearly rate that it will be paid at upon retirement , so they have had my money for 35 years making intrest by the time i retire , the current md is on £485000 a year so i wonder how many previous md's have retired on 70% of say £400'000 thats who i am paying for , as so is every public sector worker , paying for the top bods who have allready retired and are creaming it in

scoobysewell69

so what would this country do without these employees? who would teach the children, who would you call if your house got burgled or on fire. fact is that this country needs these hard working people. am not very good at maths but doesnt everyone pay less tax than they earn