J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Was just looking at the thread about the burglar who battered old ladies and how he is a junkie, how do people still get into Heroin these days, its not like its exactly a surprise that its very addcictive, kills you and wrecks the lives of those around you ?

How do people get into it these days, do they think they will be immune and can handle it, are their lives **** already and it makes no odds, do they really think its that good its worth sleeping in a infested squat ?

Same with booze really, now I love a drink, but I cant face it every day, cant face it if I have had a few the day before, do alcoholics feel like this or is it just the need for booze, I can sympthise a bit more as can see how drinking normally can get out of hand, its an accepted thing to have a few drinks where Heroin is a definite choice to go outside what is normal.

Also makes me wonder, where would we be without any booze or drugs (apart from medicines), would we really miss booze, imagine the savings in terms of illness, time off work, clearing up, rehab etc.

stilover

Always got me that too. When does a person decide "I want to take heroin" when they know that once they get hooked, it's virtually their life gone.

EDIT:
I did know a girl once who did become a Heroin addict. I asked her, and basically she was offered it one day to try. Had a go, liked it, and tried it again, then again, then again. Before she knew it she was hooked on it.

I did ask why she tried it when she knows what heroin is like. "I just wanted to try it" was her responce. Shame really, as she was a nice girl. haven't seen her for a few years now. probably dead.

Hysteria1983

I have not touched the stuff but my ex's family had a lot of issues.

His brother and his prostitute girlfriend were both heroin addicts. It was never clear how they got into it.

Their dad was an alcoholic, which was possibly part of it.

His brother was hanging about with some proper 'wrong uns' from around secondary school age, and I think in this case, it was just the sort of thing they did.

Stupid people thinking they are invincible.

CREWJ

I can't see the attraction either

Then again some people get into the situation where they are pressurized into it.

If nobody drank then the NHS and the police force would save a fortune.

Hysteria1983

It's sad to think of it like that, but unfortunately, it happens.

EddScott

It's an odd one.

Like booze, you know if you drink too much it's going to make you sick and probably become addicted. Most people I know that give H a go are almost always sick the first few times.

Booze and H aren't really any different. You sympathise with alcoholics because you like a drink. I loathe and dispise alcohol with every fibre of being and have more understanding of how people get addicted to H than booze. Using both to excess is a choice. You don't become instantly addicted to H the very first time you use it.

Think you've been watching too much Eastenders to think that all addicts live in ****. The ones that I know that got really into it were all over privileged kids from the posh side of Oxford - the weekly trip to Blackbird Leys to score was certainly entertaining to say the least. Bunch of skinny white kids scoring off Jamaicans

If alcohol was discovered now I'm sure it would be banned instantly. I personally would not miss it if it were banned.

CREWJ

I suppose I'd miss it, I do like a little glass of whiskey once in a while, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. If nobody else drank I doubt my life would change very much at all.

JPL

And smoking. Back in the day it was acceptable. I started due to peer pressure.

If the govt. had ***** they would up the legal age to 25 or ban it altogether, it's criminal to see an innocent 16 year old puffing away because at that age they think they are invincible.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. But even the 'wrong-uns' have to start it somewhere.

I also hate it when people say that light drugs and alcohol will always lead onto harder drugs. Really?
I know quite a few successful friends that used to smoke quite a bit of weed (I had a dabble myself) but all are now holding done very good jobs. Some still even have the odd joint now and then. Weed is as far as they have gone.

A drug can never truely be addictive. It is just the weak minded that say they are 'addicts', blaming a chemical for their behavior.

Hysteria1983

I'm with you, I smoked my fair share of weed in the past, and have never had an interest in anything else. I don't really drink that much, and given the legalities of it I would much prefer to smoke a joint than have a drink.

Like you say it's more a case of mind over matter.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Yes its morphine and can cause a bad reaction. I'm allergic to the stuff as I found out in hospital with brocken ribs. Throwing up because they've given you morphine for the pain is not good.

[quot]e
Booze and H aren't really any different. You sympathise with alcoholics because you like a drink. I loathe and dispise alcohol with every fibre of being and have more understanding of how people get addicted to H than booze. Using both to excess is a choice. You don't become instantly addicted to H the very first time you use it. [/quote]

I can't sympathise at all. I can'tr rationalise how someone gets up in a morning and has a super strength lager instead of cornflakes. As for smack being addictive. The official line is that it is addictive from the first hit, see the post above about girl just trying it. Plus the come down is horrific and a lot get the 'hair of the dog' to stop it.

No one mentioned cigs here. Doubt drink would be. Given the amount consumed generally the huge huge majority of people will never get into trouble because of it. The same cannot be said for smack or other stupid high addiction drugs like crack.

Surprised no one has mentioned cigs though. those would be banned I think but still bring in more for the NHS than they cost even now.

5t.

EDit: while typing several others mentioned the tabs. The above was true when written!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Completely agree.
I must be a bit weird though as I would often have a smoke and then go to the Gym!

Hysteria1983

That's a bit backwards. Lol.

Leslie

When I was a lad drug taking was not as widespread as it is now. I would not have been tempted anyway because I would never have wanted to put myself in the position of losing control of my own mind with substances like that. It was also the permanent damage that I thought was not worth the candle. Never felt I needed to get an artificial high either.

I freely admit that I got hooked on tobacco, there were no warnings of its dangers then. Very difficult to get off those too.

I like to have a drink, have been well and truly smashed on it as a young man but the hangover was so unpleasant that I did not feel that was worth it either. Once again, didn't feel I needed it as a boost anyway. I was still just as able to enjoy a good party!

Les

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I dont have any more sympathy for Drug users or Alcoholics, I can just see how one is easier to slip into than another.

Les, you wouldnt have looked right without a tache and a pipe back then so dont do yourself down !

The Zohan

Les, your first and last paragraphs contradict themselves

FWIW

remove drugs and alcohol and most of the social problems of this country would disappear. It's not going to happen though.

Drug addiction is a lifestyle choice, addiction either physical or mental can be beaten but you have to want to do it and there lies the rub. Most talk a good fight but in the end choose drugs.

same goes for booze really, the only differences are that crimes are committed to get money for drugs where as crimes are often committed once alcohol has been consumed - generally the case anyway.

The main issue is that the health services and social services seem to treat drug and alcohol abusers as victims rather than as the PITA's they really are, same goes for the police and cps. They seem to get sympathy and a "oh poor you it's not your fault" treatment which seems to be the way of the world with people not taking any responsibility for their actions. Thank you the PC leftie brigade for removing responsibility from society

Ultimately these same people who choose booze and drugs are funded by the tax payer though benefits including disability benefits due to their life choices which just perpetuates it rather than putting a stop to it.

Leslie

Good imagination J4CKO, I would hate to undermine it!

Les

Leslie

You might think that about what I said, but you are wrong in fact, I probably put it clumsily.

Although drugs were known to be injurious at the time, alcohol was not considered to be that bad then. Of course we all knew there were those who went over the top and that was not advisable from the point of one's health as a "soak," but getting a bit pie eyed occasionally was not supposed to be particularly bad for you. We all know it is easy enough to have one or two too many without actually realising it at the time. That is what happened to me, and the hangover was so unpleasant that I managed to resist it after that. Saying I was smashed was purely a figure of speech which was in vogue at the time.

Binge drinking was not known about then, that really is an unfortunate trait these days. That is where the real damage is being done I think.

There was a German flying student in Canada who one night in the Cadets' bar decided he could drink a full tumbler of vodka. he did so and very shortly after he finished drinking it, he fell down dead!

Now that did have an effect on the rest of us!

Otherwise I agree with most of what you say, except that I think most get sucked into drug addiction because they don't realise it is actually happening until it is too late. I doubt people will deliberately get into that state somehow. Kicking it must be very difficult knowing how hard I found it to stop smoking.

Les

EddScott

It isn't addictive from the first hit - The "official" line is always going to say that. It's not going to say "Don't do it too much and you'll be OK"

The cold turkey isn't fun and can actually be physically painful. You do feel the ill-effects quicker taking H than drinking. I don't know how long you have to drink to become addicted. Using H on the weekends for a while will mean you'll get a sleepless night and muscle cramps after a few days off it. Thats from light use chasing it not sticking it.

RA Dunk

True, I used to be partial to the odd spliff (or two ) Even used to be into my weekend recreational (<Sp?) drugs like E's etc during the whole Rave/club scene in the 90's. But never once did I ever consider trying anything daft like Smack/Heroin etc.

Seems to me with the whole drugs scene there is an invisible line someplace, some people know not too to cross this line, others dont.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

I struggled for a long time to understand how a small amount of any substance could take such a hold on someone.

I met someone who was fortunate enough to have put their habit behind them, and got an opportunity to talk with him about his years of addition. He told me that initially it was the element of escape from himself as a person he didn't like that caused him to start taking the drug. When the effect of the drugs wore off, the return to normality left him feeling much lower than before taking the drug. Over a relatively short period of time, his return to a normal state brought with it more physical symptoms - he told me he could only describe it is like having 10 doses of proper flu (not man flu) at one time, where he would ache all over, go from feeling very hot and feverish to being cold and shivering, and having no energy or motivation. The only way to escape these symptoms was to take some more heroin - and so the cycle of dependency deepened.

I have no sympathy for anyone who takes this path, as it is wholly self inflicted, I have however a great deal of respect for this bloke who lost it all over seven years of addiction, has managed to put this behind him and rebuild things for himself.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

So you'd have no problem chasing some down then? After all, it isn't addictive is it?

I think i'll believe the official line thanks.

5t.

EDIT to add: Tarmac Terror's post is exactly what I'm talking about. The return to normality even after one led to a second, which leads to a third. Addiction isn't about curing a physical thing so much as a mental one.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Knowing that most street drugs are cut so heavily with who-knows-what they'll only contain 10% of the actual substance they're supposed to be, it's pretty obvious anyone who chooses to take them isn't massively concerned about the potential outcome of doing so.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

While most of these addicts tend to be the layabouts who turn to drugs out of boredom it can happen to even the most successful people as well. I went to school with a guy who ran his own business had a wife and a young daughter and things could not have been going better for him. Then one day he lost his daughter, he turned to booze and he ended up losing his wife and his business.

It's easy to criticise all these addicts and lump them all together but how would you deal with the loss of a child? personally for me it would have to be suicide or some seriously mind bending substance to take my mind off the pain.

The Zohan

Surely It goes without saying that not all addicts are the same However they have the same addiction and associated problems which affect the broader society. I would imagine a lot start on harder drugs, particulalry Heroin, meth, crack etc to escape something, be it boredom, abuse, or whatever is getting at/to them . Same could be said of alcohol i guess.

Addiction is still not an illness or a disability whoever the person is. We all grieve and deal with things in different ways, turning to drink and drugs is a choice still, you do not have to With respect you friend took a very selfish path, i am sure his wife/partner/close family could have done with the help and support and perhaps they could have got over it together supporting each other, who knows...now i am off to polish the windows in my ivory tower

EddScott

LOL, where did I say it wasn't addictive? I said you are not addicted from the first time you try it.

Believe the official line all you want, it's not actually correct.

The Zohan

A mental addiction (especially in the first stages of taking a drug) is just a case of having the will power to say "No!" surely physical addiction that then follows along with the mental pressures make it harder tio get off drugs but most druggies stay on drugs due to being selfish and self destructive no matter their initial reasons for taking it. Again same for any addiction including drink or even prescription drugs

You can lead a horse to water, you cannot make it drink...

EddScott

I think the mental addiction is there for any substance - drugs, drink, **** early on as it's habit forming. Weed I don't believe is a physical addiction but it becomes habbit forming to have a joint after work or after being out (assuming you don't got white and puke your guts out). Same for anything really - I've got into a habit of having a can of redbull at about 3pm most days and feel more tired in the afternoon without it - am I then addicted to Red Bull? Or has it become a habit?

I think the problem with H is that it's physical addiction takes hold much quicker than people realise - and quicker than other substances. So whereas you might form a temporary habit to drinking or smoking weed, when you decide enough is enough, it's a case of breaking the routine.

The problem is when you say enough is enough and your body reacts physically to the loss of the drug and therefore your body is physically addicted. Coupled with the addition of guilt and depression because you've now realised your hooked, makes coming off the physical affects that much harder.

People who take drugs aren't always trying to get away from thier own lives or trying to forget some torrid past event - some just take drugs because they like them.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

So answer my other point then - want to give it a go? After all, it isn't like you'll get addicted from the first time so therefore it must be safe right?

5t.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I am sure that happens as its about the worst thing that can happen to anybody and you can forgive someone wanting a way out from that kind of pain, its getting them to realise that booze and drugs are not the way.

However, the rest of them out there, the Heroin Addicts, the out of control boozers and the massive fatties, I am sure all of them can blame something but only you put that pie in your mouth, needle in your arm or beer down your throat and The Zohan is right that they get treated a bit too well sometimes, like they have had some unfortunate accident that is no fault of their own and the rest of us get to pay for them, imagine the ammount some of them cost, no contribution to society just take take take, benefits for being "ill", housing, council tax, mobility. Ok perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but wake up and smell the (Decaffienated so you dont get addicted) Coffee, the country is fooked and we are supporting people who make choices like this at the expense of those who are genuinely disabled through no fault of their own, personal responsibility is absolutely at an all time low in this country.