joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Watched a great doco on BBC FOUR last night: Crime and Punishment.

The episode majored, for the most part, on the history of Capital Punishment as born/'evolved' in Britain, right through to its absolute abolition under Nu Labia (can't even get hanged for treason or piracy no more lol).

Just wondered what are S'Netters' stance on C.P.? Should the U.K. bring it back, etc, etc...?


[kicks back, feet up, popcorn, beer, etc. -- this'll be a long thread, I feel... ]

specialx

With the advances in DNA i'm well up for a bit of Saturday stoning!




Bag of gravel anyone?!

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

LOL! Classic.

Clarebabes

You'll get people saying that the death penalty is the biggest deterrent etc. etc. but that doesn't seem to have worked in the States.

I don't agree with it myself, even for 100% crimes. Lets the criminal off too easy. An alternative is hard labour, but that would be against their human rights no doubt.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Can't see HOW we could ever bring back CP with the police/CPS being as untrustworthy as they are.

If you lock someone up for something they didn't do, you can financially compensate them.
you can NOT bring someone back from the dead.

jonc

It would certainly be less costly! How much does it cost the taxpayer to keep someone in for life not to mention the ever increasing capacity required for new inmates.

briggzy206

iTrader: (1)

it stars at £26000 mate right up to around 60k depending on security gategory, and thats just per year!!!!

Lee247

My Son and I were having this conversation a couple of nights ago, on the dog walk.
He said exactly the same as you Clare and he is studying Criminology at Uni.
I do think the law has to toughen up though

Clarebabes

Very interesting subject I'd imagine

Yes, the law is soft, but even hardening them up does not stop people committing crimes. In the US, the sentences are incredibly harsh, but they have a huge prison population, so not really working.

yorvik

iTrader: (4)

I`ve always thought that one Timothy Evans was one too many. But I do think the sentencing needs restructuring.

The Dogs B******s

Bring it back,it'll save the country millions

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Bit of a logical fallacy there, I'm afraid. First, longer prison sentences aren't just about deterrence, they're about keeping the people you know have already committed at least one crime away from the rest of society for longer, so they can't commit more.

Second, crime would have to fall by the same amount that you increase prison sentences by for your overall prison pop to actually go down. Otherwise, if crime drops by half say, but you're dishing out 3 times longer sentences, then obviously you'll still end up with a bigger prison pop. Eventually you'll hit a kind of plateau, but at least by the time you do you should at least be safe in the knowledge that you have a bigger proportion of the criminal fraternity behind bars where they belong, rather than roaming the streets plotting their next score.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

100%.

This is the reason, IMO, we can't have it back ever again.

NOTHING can excuse a state execution of a (wrongly convicted) innocent.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Eye for an eye IMHO ... murder someone & you should see your maker loss of liberty seems little deterent to me. Thugs may think twice about opening up in a public space if it were so ...

TX.

Edit - USA doesn't have that many people on Death Row when you consider how big the country / population is

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

What about people like the Yorkshire ripper, Ian Huntley etc.. When they are guilty.

yorvik

iTrader: (4)

So you don`t find hanging the odd innocent one here and there a bit of a problem?

Just one example....there are many many others:

Lesley Susan Molseed (born Lesley Susan Anderson on 14 August 1964) was an eleven-year old schoolgirl from Turf Hill, Rochdale, Greater Manchester who was murdered on 5 October 1975 on Rishworth Moor between Rochdale and Ripponden in West Yorkshire. Stefan Ivan Kiszko (1952–1993), a local tax clerk of Ukrainian/Slovenian parentage, served 16 years in prison after he was wrongly convicted of her sexual assault and murder. The circumstances of his ordeal was described by one MP as "the worst miscarriage of justice of all time" [1]. Ronald Castree was eventually found guilty of the crime on 12 November 2007.[2]

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Nope, small price to pay - think of it as friendly fire. Stay indoors if it worries you.

TX.

yorvik

iTrader: (4)

Words fail me!!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I would imagine when most, if not everyone, was sentenced for murder, there was certainty of their guilt. Otherwise they wouldn't be found guilty, especially more recently with advances in forensics etc.

However, despite this certainty, mistakes are still made. In my eyes, the wrongful execution of just one person outweighs any benefit of having the death penalty.

It may cost alot of money to house a murderer or such like, but it's a lesser price to pay than the loss of life of an innocent person convicted by mistake.

And what is to say the DP would deter some mad person with no concept of right and wrong, and no understanding of the consequences? It may be the ultimate punishment, but it didn't stop them committing the crime in the first place.

chris_b

iTrader: (1)

i think it should be bought back, for certain crimes that can be proved 110%, not only will it free up resources in the prison services it would also save the tax payer money leaving more to spread around to impotant issues like healthcare.

but on a more serious note, if they made it public events on a sunday afternoon i could have an excuse for an all day drinking sesh likethay used to back in medievel days

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

And how would a crime be proven 110%, for absolute certainty? Where do we draw the line between certainty and not sure?

People have been convicted of crimes before, and turned out not guilty years later...with the death penalty in place, their 'murder' couldn't be reversed.

Are you honestly 110% happy taking the risk of murdering an innocent person?

bugeyejohn

iTrader: (11)

Weve got dna now so if theres a match hang um flog um whatever the fact money will be saved is a bonus.

chris_b

iTrader: (1)

as said before, modern forensics help, so do the maney cctv cameras everywhere, thats by what i ment by crimes that can be proved 110%, an eye witness account and circumstancial evidince back in 1970 may of been enough to secure a coviction.
but fast forward to 2011 that would not be enough, if its been caught on video and been supported by foresic evidence eg dna how can it not be proven 110%?

bugeyejohn

iTrader: (11)

Sounds good to me thin out a few rapists and murderers and get the ale flowing maybe a pig roast as well to go the whole hog

chris_b

iTrader: (1)

i think we should move into politics

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

No crime is even 99%, and murders are often on fairly dodgy ground - especially high-profile cases. Now what?


M

bigsinky

kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. no quarter should be given here. fred west, ian huntley, yorkshire ripper, james bulger et al should have been executed and buried in unmarked graves.

Leslie

It is true that we see more murders since the death penalty was abolished. There is no doubt that it was a factor when it came to what criminals were prepared to do to avoid detection during robberies etc.

I think if it was brought back, it should only be used in stone cold cases of murder where there can be no doubt about guilt. I think it would make criminals think twice about their actions towards the innocent parties.

I think one of the worst instances of its use was the hanging of Derek Bentley when he was actually trying to get his partner in crime to surrender his weapon.

Les

boomer

So when your barber starts selling your clippings to local crims as a side-line so that a few of your hairs can be left at a murder scene you would go quietly to the gallows???

DNA evidence (along with CCTV, computer or phone logs etc.) is far from 100% reliable!

mb

The Zohan

In which case why bother even having police or indeed prisons because it sounds like everybody is innocent even if proved guilty. I think you will find that to extract DNA from hair you need the follicle attached so unless your barber actually pulls the hari our i guess you are OK.

Perhaps give this defence you feel this chap is innocent? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ma...framed-ex-wife - looks like a fit up by his ex, maybe she was working in cahoots with his barber

Capital punishment for the most vile and evil of crimes - child murder for example. I would happily see Fred West and Ian Huntley and their likes swing