'It was my first protest. Now I might lose my job'
29 March 2011, 10:02 AM
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'It was my first protest. Now I might lose my job'
Well I must say I have some sympathy if he did nothing wrong - I'm not sure where the law stands on 'criminal trespass' but otoh he's pretty naive since this sort of thing is always going to kick off which the archaist groups etc, and the Police have a duty to stop it getting out of hand and they have fairly blunt tools to do so.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...b-2255730.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...b-2255730.html
'It was my first protest. Now I might lose my job'
Case study: Protesters said they had been assured by police they would not be arrested if they had caused no damage
Tuesday, 29 March 2011
PA
Protesters and police clash in central London on Saturday
At 3pm on Saturday, Adam made a spur-of-the-moment decision to join the sit-in at the luxury London grocers Fortnum & Mason. His sole "direct action" during the three-hour protest was to move a shop display under a table to ensure it was not trampled. Yesterday, though, the 25-year-old teacher from west London found himself facing a criminal charge and fearing for his career.
He was one of 138 people at the demonstration who have been charged with aggravated trespass after being arrested by riot police outside the store on Piccadilly, and spending up to 24 hours in cells at police stations around the capital.
Up to 500 demonstrators occupied Fortnum's delicacy-stocked aisles on Saturday afternoon as part of a unpublicised protest by UK Uncut over claims that Associated British Foods (ABF), which is 54 per cent-owned by the food emporium's owner, Whittington Investments, has avoided £40m of tax. ABF denies any tax avoidance, saying it complies fully with the law.
Adam is so fearful that his arrest may lead to recriminations from his employer that he asked for his name to be changed. He said: "It was the first cuts protest I had attended. I was on the regular march [TUC-organised] and then I met three friends. We decided we wanted to join UK Uncut, so we went inside Fortnum & Mason. It was very peaceful, no violence and no one asked me to leave. I did not think I would be arrested at any point, I had not even thought about it. What the police said to us all before we left was that the only people who could be arrested would be those who had committed criminal damage. I thought I haven't done anything like that so there was no way I could be arrested."
He added: "I am upset by the dishonesty of the police and very angry at how long they kept us [in cells]. I worry that if I get a criminal record, it could affect my work. I want to keep working in education and you don't want the kids reading about this sort of thing or their parents – they could make a fuss."
Protesters yesterday accused the Metropolitan Police of heavy-handed tactics and "tricking" participants in the sit-in when officers inside the building gave apparent undertakings that only demonstrators who had been identified as committing criminal damage faced arrest when they decided to leave. The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said it had received a complaint from a witness of "unnecessary violence" by officers on Piccadilly.
Protesters described how, once outside the store, they were corralled into an area surrounded by officers in riot gear and made to sit down before being handcuffed, photographed and taken away in a van.
Adam spent 23 hours in a cell in Bromley, south-east London, before being charged and told to attend a court hearing in May. Like others arrested he was handed an additional banning order prohibiting him from entering the City of Westminster between 27 April and 2 May to coincide with the royal wedding.
Protesters said they hadn't seen anyone inside the shop commit criminal damage. Fortnum & Mason said the loss of trade during the protest would cost it about £80,000 but physical losses were restricted to the theft of a number of bottles of wine or champagne and slogans which had been daubed on to the exterior of the building.
UK Uncut said it was collating video evidence which it believed would show protesters were calm, peaceful and assured by officers they could leave the shop without fear of arrest as long as they had committed no damage.
Case study: Protesters said they had been assured by police they would not be arrested if they had caused no damage
Tuesday, 29 March 2011
PAProtesters and police clash in central London on Saturday
At 3pm on Saturday, Adam made a spur-of-the-moment decision to join the sit-in at the luxury London grocers Fortnum & Mason. His sole "direct action" during the three-hour protest was to move a shop display under a table to ensure it was not trampled. Yesterday, though, the 25-year-old teacher from west London found himself facing a criminal charge and fearing for his career.
He was one of 138 people at the demonstration who have been charged with aggravated trespass after being arrested by riot police outside the store on Piccadilly, and spending up to 24 hours in cells at police stations around the capital.
Up to 500 demonstrators occupied Fortnum's delicacy-stocked aisles on Saturday afternoon as part of a unpublicised protest by UK Uncut over claims that Associated British Foods (ABF), which is 54 per cent-owned by the food emporium's owner, Whittington Investments, has avoided £40m of tax. ABF denies any tax avoidance, saying it complies fully with the law.
Adam is so fearful that his arrest may lead to recriminations from his employer that he asked for his name to be changed. He said: "It was the first cuts protest I had attended. I was on the regular march [TUC-organised] and then I met three friends. We decided we wanted to join UK Uncut, so we went inside Fortnum & Mason. It was very peaceful, no violence and no one asked me to leave. I did not think I would be arrested at any point, I had not even thought about it. What the police said to us all before we left was that the only people who could be arrested would be those who had committed criminal damage. I thought I haven't done anything like that so there was no way I could be arrested."
He added: "I am upset by the dishonesty of the police and very angry at how long they kept us [in cells]. I worry that if I get a criminal record, it could affect my work. I want to keep working in education and you don't want the kids reading about this sort of thing or their parents – they could make a fuss."
Protesters yesterday accused the Metropolitan Police of heavy-handed tactics and "tricking" participants in the sit-in when officers inside the building gave apparent undertakings that only demonstrators who had been identified as committing criminal damage faced arrest when they decided to leave. The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said it had received a complaint from a witness of "unnecessary violence" by officers on Piccadilly.
Protesters described how, once outside the store, they were corralled into an area surrounded by officers in riot gear and made to sit down before being handcuffed, photographed and taken away in a van.
Adam spent 23 hours in a cell in Bromley, south-east London, before being charged and told to attend a court hearing in May. Like others arrested he was handed an additional banning order prohibiting him from entering the City of Westminster between 27 April and 2 May to coincide with the royal wedding.
Protesters said they hadn't seen anyone inside the shop commit criminal damage. Fortnum & Mason said the loss of trade during the protest would cost it about £80,000 but physical losses were restricted to the theft of a number of bottles of wine or champagne and slogans which had been daubed on to the exterior of the building.
UK Uncut said it was collating video evidence which it believed would show protesters were calm, peaceful and assured by officers they could leave the shop without fear of arrest as long as they had committed no damage.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 29 March 2011 at 10:03 AM.
29 March 2011, 10:12 AM
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29 March 2011, 10:42 AM
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My heart bleeds. He must have analysed the situation and realised it was getting a bit fruity, when he could have made the decision to walk away.
He is the kind of teacher who implores his students to 'rise up', 'let their voices be heard', and 'have a say on how the country is run'. No doubt some of the same disaffected students, many of whom have not left secondary education, were probably there, 'letting their voices be heard'.
If I had risen up, Id have been crucified.
He is the kind of teacher who implores his students to 'rise up', 'let their voices be heard', and 'have a say on how the country is run'. No doubt some of the same disaffected students, many of whom have not left secondary education, were probably there, 'letting their voices be heard'.
If I had risen up, Id have been crucified.
29 March 2011, 10:56 AM
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As a teacher he's in a position of responsibility - whether or not it's 'right' for him to have the right to protest, he must have known that it would cause issues with his job should he get caught up in any trouble.
No brainer. No sympathy here.
No brainer. No sympathy here.
29 March 2011, 10:59 AM
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Agreed. In the same way that as a serviceman, I have waived my right to protest about political/military strategy. I waive it totally and without any complaint.
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29 March 2011, 11:00 AM
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Well I must say I have some sympathy if he did nothing wrong - I'm not sure where the law stands on 'criminal trespass' but otoh he's pretty naive since this sort of thing is always going to kick off which the archaist groups etc, and the Police have a duty to stop it getting out of hand and they have fairly blunt tools to do so.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...b-2255730.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...b-2255730.html
This guy had choices, he isn't a kid, he needs to face up to his actions. If this goes to court and he is convicted then once his E-CRB comes up for renewal he will be looking for employment elsewhere, and probably not teaching with a criminal record
29 March 2011, 11:09 AM
#9
He's been a bit stupid. Irrespective of whether or not there was any damage, did it not occur to him that F&M were losing money while the protesters were having their sit-in.
Frankly it sounds like the police dealt with this quite well. If they told them they would all be arrested while still in the store who knows what would have happened. I don't think there is any requirement on the police to tell the truth to people in the process of committing a criminal act.
I certainly wouldn't want him teaching my kids - not because I disagree with his politics but because he's obviously a bit dim.
Frankly it sounds like the police dealt with this quite well. If they told them they would all be arrested while still in the store who knows what would have happened. I don't think there is any requirement on the police to tell the truth to people in the process of committing a criminal act.
I certainly wouldn't want him teaching my kids - not because I disagree with his politics but because he's obviously a bit dim.
29 March 2011, 11:14 AM
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29 March 2011, 12:45 PM
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I really dont think he should lose his job, that is pointless as it is hard enough to find people wanting to go into teaching at the best of time, a thankless task most of the time and apart fromt he holidays there arent many benefits, sacking him isnt in the public interest, he joined in a protest, he didnt wreck the place, just went into a shop and stayed there for a time to make a point.
The point being, we, the majority are being squeezed as never before by tax rises, price rises and cust to public services whilst insanely wealthy companies and individuals are avoiding paying their share, Fortnums owned by this West Family trust and Phillip Green who owns Arcadia all contriving things so they pay very little tax as a percentage of their income.
Now I am no communist and do think there needs to be very wealthy people but I dont think any one individual really needs or warrants that kind of personal wealth, I dont understand why anyone would want to acumulate that much, we only live a finite ammount of time, there is only so much stuff we can buy so whether you get 1 billion as a divident or 700 million its not like you are going to have to start saving coupons.
I think there should be a bit more philanthropy, failing that just paying the same percentage tax as the rest of the country, as opposed to barefaced greed and avoding paying tax at all if possible.
A friend of my wife was a tax accountant in London and dealt with very wealthy families, whole rafts of people who pay sod all tax because they can get a clever accountant to arrange it so they dont have to.
I think the same rules apply to all those who operate on cash as well, builders and whatever, everyone hates paying tax but if everyone paid their bit then it wouldnt be as bad, trouble is there are a lot of greedy b4stards for whom too much is never enough.
I will no longer be doing my weekly shop in Fortnuns
The point being, we, the majority are being squeezed as never before by tax rises, price rises and cust to public services whilst insanely wealthy companies and individuals are avoiding paying their share, Fortnums owned by this West Family trust and Phillip Green who owns Arcadia all contriving things so they pay very little tax as a percentage of their income.
Now I am no communist and do think there needs to be very wealthy people but I dont think any one individual really needs or warrants that kind of personal wealth, I dont understand why anyone would want to acumulate that much, we only live a finite ammount of time, there is only so much stuff we can buy so whether you get 1 billion as a divident or 700 million its not like you are going to have to start saving coupons.
I think there should be a bit more philanthropy, failing that just paying the same percentage tax as the rest of the country, as opposed to barefaced greed and avoding paying tax at all if possible.
A friend of my wife was a tax accountant in London and dealt with very wealthy families, whole rafts of people who pay sod all tax because they can get a clever accountant to arrange it so they dont have to.
I think the same rules apply to all those who operate on cash as well, builders and whatever, everyone hates paying tax but if everyone paid their bit then it wouldnt be as bad, trouble is there are a lot of greedy b4stards for whom too much is never enough.
I will no longer be doing my weekly shop in Fortnuns
29 March 2011, 12:49 PM
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It's not exactly entrapment. The police probably wanted them to calmly move out.
I think he is profoundly naive - whether he deserves to lose his teaching career is a moot point - but a criminal record is a criminal record.
I think he is profoundly naive - whether he deserves to lose his teaching career is a moot point - but a criminal record is a criminal record.
29 March 2011, 12:51 PM
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famous joke: anarchists- don't forget when yr busy smashing the state, not to do it on a Wednesday when its giro day.
if yr stupid enough to turn up for these things, you deserve everything you get. Personally I'd let the army trample the ******* to death.
in tanks.
if yr stupid enough to turn up for these things, you deserve everything you get. Personally I'd let the army trample the ******* to death.
in tanks.
29 March 2011, 12:54 PM
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Sorry, but he deserves all he gets.
1) Protesting over Public Sector cuts.
We in the Private sector have been making cuts, salary, staff etc for the last couple years, yet we don't strike or protest.
I don't have a final salary pension to keep me warm through the winter when i get old.
2) His first protest?
Was it really? Or was it the first he's got arrested at?
How do we know that he wasn't one of the ones who helped smash up that porsche dealership? Or smash that santander front window?
1) Protesting over Public Sector cuts.
We in the Private sector have been making cuts, salary, staff etc for the last couple years, yet we don't strike or protest.
I don't have a final salary pension to keep me warm through the winter when i get old.
2) His first protest?
Was it really? Or was it the first he's got arrested at?
How do we know that he wasn't one of the ones who helped smash up that porsche dealership? Or smash that santander front window?
29 March 2011, 12:54 PM
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What if it was your business and you just lost £80,000 because some left wing idiots blocked the way to your business?
Bluddy Commie 
I dont think any one individual really needs or warrants that kind of personal wealth, I dont understand why anyone would want to acumulate that much, we only live a finite ammount of time, there is only so much stuff we can buy so whether you get 1 billion as a divident or 700 million
29 March 2011, 02:05 PM
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Not a wise move on his part.
Gettng involved in the kind of "active" protest which includes the type of gross vandalism which we read about in the media is bound to put himself at risk of positive action even if he personally did not carry out any damaging procedures in the store.
I don't know if any significant vandalism took place in the store but he would find it very difficult to prove his innocence if it did. He would of course be associated with the mob outside in the streets.
Les
Gettng involved in the kind of "active" protest which includes the type of gross vandalism which we read about in the media is bound to put himself at risk of positive action even if he personally did not carry out any damaging procedures in the store.
I don't know if any significant vandalism took place in the store but he would find it very difficult to prove his innocence if it did. He would of course be associated with the mob outside in the streets.
Les
29 March 2011, 02:18 PM
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Sorry, but he deserves all he gets.
1) Protesting over Public Sector cuts.
We in the Private sector have been making cuts, salary, staff etc for the last couple years, yet we don't strike or protest.
I don't have a final salary pension to keep me warm through the winter when i get old.
2) His first protest?
Was it really? Or was it the first he's got arrested at?
How do we know that he wasn't one of the ones who helped smash up that porsche dealership? Or smash that santander front window?
1) Protesting over Public Sector cuts.
We in the Private sector have been making cuts, salary, staff etc for the last couple years, yet we don't strike or protest.
I don't have a final salary pension to keep me warm through the winter when i get old.
2) His first protest?
Was it really? Or was it the first he's got arrested at?
How do we know that he wasn't one of the ones who helped smash up that porsche dealership? Or smash that santander front window?
29 March 2011, 02:33 PM
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I agree he was naive but he was just making a peaceful protest from what was written and we do live in a democracy where peaceful protest is allowed like the blockade of the Petrol refineries in 2000 which cost a lot more.
Anyway i cant believe they take £80K in three hours of trading with the march going on outside etc sounds like exaggeration.
Stilover
1) the private sector is going on strike BA is striking at Easter for example and a lot of the public sector cut backs are going to cause private companies to lay staff off as well so lots of people suffer.
and you choose a job with a better salary and therefore no final salary pension if the pension was so important to you you should have negotiated that with a or got a different job
Anyway i cant believe they take £80K in three hours of trading with the march going on outside etc sounds like exaggeration.
Stilover
1) the private sector is going on strike BA is striking at Easter for example and a lot of the public sector cut backs are going to cause private companies to lay staff off as well so lots of people suffer.
and you choose a job with a better salary and therefore no final salary pension if the pension was so important to you you should have negotiated that with a or got a different job
29 March 2011, 02:54 PM
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It isn't as straight cut regarding the CRB check as you may think. I know teachers who have had things show up on these but they haven't been considered to put any child in danger so have been over looked. He might be fine.
29 March 2011, 03:30 PM
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29 March 2011, 04:18 PM
#24
Trouble is now that every protest is now tarred with anyone participating being a lunatic scroungers hell bent on destoying the state and to an extent I think there is an element of truth in a lot of cases but sometimes people are compelled to have their say, to my mind the government making cuts is the right way to go if they have not got enough money coming in from the population to support everything they provide. However, if you look at the reasons for there not being enough money in the coffers,
Scope Creep, councils providing more than they need to
Fraudulent claims and Career Claimants (in the population and Government)
Over Budget Projects
Public sector bloat,
On top of the above, system related stuff there is a whole raft of stuff down to the population of this country,
So, seems to me the government are sorting the above out to a certain extent but really they need to collect tax of everyone who works to fund the systems in place, the borrowing is because the system is too big and the tax take too small, so Billionaires and companies that avoid millions in tax because they can should be made to pay their dues, they always tout how much these people do for the country but to be honest the country has done more for them if they have made it to that position, it isnt all down to their talents, there are lots of talented people who dont make it like that as the system will only support so many so there is an element of luck in there as well.
So, this guy and the others, though a pain in the **** were making a point to those who are avoiding 40 Billion of tax a year.
As for not taxing them too much because they will go elsewhere, so be it, they do anyway, James Dyson for example made 800 people unemployed in Wales when he sent the manufacturing to Malaysia due to economics, he is still however worth over a Billion.
29 March 2011, 04:29 PM
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we all have the right to free speech, and to legitimate peaceful protest.
However, we dont have the right to occupy a retail store. It is not a "public place" and they have been restricting the trade of that organisation by staging their pathetic sit-in..
some people need to grow up. Our country is in a ****e state after many years of mistakes and significant global influences. It took many years to kill it, and it'll take several more to try to fix it. We have to deal with it, simple.
This guy is daft if he thinks this sort of protest march won't end up in trouble, all the idiots out there bent on trouble were always going to arrive.. I even saw a photo of a statue whereby the rider of a horse was holding a "get out of lybia" sign... That's really "on message" in a "demo against the cuts protest"... lol.
This will be a tough few years, but we cannot lose sight of how we got here... many people do have such short memories and are now blaming the libdem/tory alliance for the issues we are faced with, i kinda feel sorry for em as it seems the previous lot are getting away with it scott-free...lol... one day we'll all figure it out i suppose.
Mikey.
However, we dont have the right to occupy a retail store. It is not a "public place" and they have been restricting the trade of that organisation by staging their pathetic sit-in..
some people need to grow up. Our country is in a ****e state after many years of mistakes and significant global influences. It took many years to kill it, and it'll take several more to try to fix it. We have to deal with it, simple.
This guy is daft if he thinks this sort of protest march won't end up in trouble, all the idiots out there bent on trouble were always going to arrive.. I even saw a photo of a statue whereby the rider of a horse was holding a "get out of lybia" sign... That's really "on message" in a "demo against the cuts protest"... lol.
This will be a tough few years, but we cannot lose sight of how we got here... many people do have such short memories and are now blaming the libdem/tory alliance for the issues we are faced with, i kinda feel sorry for em as it seems the previous lot are getting away with it scott-free...lol... one day we'll all figure it out i suppose.
Mikey.
29 March 2011, 04:38 PM
#26
we all have the right to free speech, and to legitimate peaceful protest.
However, we dont have the right to occupy a retail store. It is not a "public place" and they have been restricting the trade of that organisation by staging their pathetic sit-in..
some people need to grow up. Our country is in a ****e state after many years of mistakes and significant global influences. It took many years to kill it, and it'll take several more to try to fix it. We have to deal with it, simple.
This guy is daft if he thinks this sort of protest march won't end up in trouble, all the idiots out there bent on trouble were always going to arrive.. I even saw a photo of a statue whereby the rider of a horse was holding a "get out of lybia" sign... That's really "on message" in a "demo against the cuts protest"... lol.
This will be a tough few years, but we cannot lose sight of how we got here... many people do have such short memories and are now blaming the libdem/tory alliance for the issues we are faced with, i kinda feel sorry for em as it seems the previous lot are getting away with it scott-free...lol... one day we'll all figure it out i suppose.
Mikey.
However, we dont have the right to occupy a retail store. It is not a "public place" and they have been restricting the trade of that organisation by staging their pathetic sit-in..
some people need to grow up. Our country is in a ****e state after many years of mistakes and significant global influences. It took many years to kill it, and it'll take several more to try to fix it. We have to deal with it, simple.
This guy is daft if he thinks this sort of protest march won't end up in trouble, all the idiots out there bent on trouble were always going to arrive.. I even saw a photo of a statue whereby the rider of a horse was holding a "get out of lybia" sign... That's really "on message" in a "demo against the cuts protest"... lol.
This will be a tough few years, but we cannot lose sight of how we got here... many people do have such short memories and are now blaming the libdem/tory alliance for the issues we are faced with, i kinda feel sorry for em as it seems the previous lot are getting away with it scott-free...lol... one day we'll all figure it out i suppose.
Mikey.
Daft, yes, I agree but I don't think he deserves to lose his job over it, not in anyones interest, nobody died, I reckon some community service and a fine would suffice. As for him not teaching your kids, I suspect most of the time he has to stick to the curriculum and has limited time for a subversive agenda, I would hope that my kids would make their own decision on whether anything someone like this said to them was the truth, anyway what kids actually listen to Teachers, most of their influences are from TV anyway and nobody has mentioned stopping them listening to that.
My mum and J4ckos mate's wife better watch it as they occupy TK Maxx for longer than this lot did Fortnum's.
29 March 2011, 05:20 PM
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It's not a badly paid job really and in its own way cushy and easy if you have the right personality.
29 March 2011, 05:23 PM
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It's not a democratic action.
29 March 2011, 05:56 PM
#30
Don't forget BA has only been in the private sector since 1987. It seems to be a small part of the company (Heathrow based cabin crew) supporting strike action so I wonder how many of these have been around since before 1987. BA certainly seem to have more than their fair share of old bags on their cabin crew - not as bad as AA, but close. (Reminds me of one of my favourite jokes - What's the difference between a Rotweiller and a BA stewardess? Lipgloss.)