Libya
25 March 2011, 09:00 PM
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Libya
The subject seems to be cropping up all over the place, it's clearly one that's divisive and I think and feel people wish to express their views.
Let's keep it about the issues, let's challenge without getting personal, let's keep it respectful. Please don't use RTM or 'lock the thread, please' to wriggle out of awkward questions but, if a user becomes abusive, use the function and let the mods make a call. Mods, if you could prune and/or have a word, that would be great.
I've backed intervention from the start and, indeed, prior to United Nations Resolution 1973 being passed. I support the government's position.
Let's keep it about the issues, let's challenge without getting personal, let's keep it respectful. Please don't use RTM or 'lock the thread, please' to wriggle out of awkward questions but, if a user becomes abusive, use the function and let the mods make a call. Mods, if you could prune and/or have a word, that would be great.
I've backed intervention from the start and, indeed, prior to United Nations Resolution 1973 being passed. I support the government's position.
26 March 2011, 08:54 AM
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Sky had an interview with some British Libyan guy yesterday I think, he said he was in Benghazi, and that Gadaffi forces had been using heavy weapons indiscriminately against civilians and that the allied intervention had saved lots of lives.
He seemed like he was very truthful in contrast to the liars that the regime keep sticking in front of the cameras in Tripoli.
He seemed like he was very truthful in contrast to the liars that the regime keep sticking in front of the cameras in Tripoli.
26 March 2011, 09:10 AM
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26 March 2011, 09:33 AM
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I'm sure Google will come to your rescue there ...
Back to the subject in hand, interesting interview on RT, over 9 mins long but worth listening to. Strange how certain things aren't getting reported in the UK media .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqKdD...layer_embedded ...
Dave
26 March 2011, 10:06 AM
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I'm sure Google will come to your rescue there ...
Back to the subject in hand, interesting interview on RT, over 9 mins long but worth listening to. Strange how certain things aren't getting reported in the UK media .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqKdD...layer_embedded ...
Dave
Back to the subject in hand, interesting interview on RT, over 9 mins long but worth listening to. Strange how certain things aren't getting reported in the UK media .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqKdD...layer_embedded ...
Dave
26 March 2011, 10:21 AM
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26 March 2011, 10:53 AM
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Such a pity that the same country which chaired the UN Commission on Human Rights in 2003 is now the focus of a UN no-fly mandate due to its treatment of its civilian population. Now that's not to say they were 'whiter than white' but they had potential... oops, sorry.... back to the bun fight
26 March 2011, 11:00 AM
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26 March 2011, 11:36 AM
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The subject seems to be cropping up all over the place, it's clearly one that's divisive and I think and feel people wish to express their views.
Let's keep it about the issues, let's challenge without getting personal, let's keep it respectful. Please don't use RTM or 'lock the thread, please' to wriggle out of awkward questions but, if a user becomes abusive, use the function and let the mods make a call. Mods, if you could prune and/or have a word, that would be great.
I've backed intervention from the start and, indeed, prior to United Nations Resolution 1973 being passed. I support the government's position.
Let's keep it about the issues, let's challenge without getting personal, let's keep it respectful. Please don't use RTM or 'lock the thread, please' to wriggle out of awkward questions but, if a user becomes abusive, use the function and let the mods make a call. Mods, if you could prune and/or have a word, that would be great.
I've backed intervention from the start and, indeed, prior to United Nations Resolution 1973 being passed. I support the government's position.
26 March 2011, 01:07 PM
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26 March 2011, 01:25 PM
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We are there because this country's elected government believe in market-lead liberal democracy and wish to support groups who are like minded. We are there as a permanent member of the UNSC and because we, alongside our French partners and Lebanon, tabled the draft resolution. We are there because we could intervene. We are there because the people in Banghazi were on the cusp of being massacred. It's legal, it's in the long-term interests of our country and its partners across the globe. It was, and is the right thing to do.
Last edited by JTaylor; 26 March 2011 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Spelling.
26 March 2011, 01:35 PM
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We are there because this country's elected government believe in market-lead liberal democracy and wish to support groups who are like minded. We are there as a permenent member of the UNSC and because we, alongside our French partners and Lebanon, tabled the draft resolution. We are there because we could intervene. We are there because the people in Banghazi were on the cusp of being massacred. It's legal, it's in the long-term interests of our country and its partners across the globe. It was, and is the right thing to do.
Dave
26 March 2011, 01:36 PM
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Are those the two options and are they opposing? Universal suffrage, a free market and a free media would certainly be desirable.
26 March 2011, 01:38 PM
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26 March 2011, 05:02 PM
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We are there because this country's elected government believe in market-lead liberal democracy and wish to support groups who are like minded. We are there as a permenent member of the UNSC and because we, alongside our French partners and Lebanon, tabled the draft resolution. We are there because we could intervene. We are there because the people in Banghazi were on the cusp of being massacred. It's legal, it's in the long-term interests of our country and its partners across the globe. It was, and is the right thing to do.
, but I agree with this.
26 March 2011, 05:30 PM
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Germany and Russia are geographically well positioned.
How about the Arab League of Nations taking the lead and the UNSC supporting them?
We (UK) seem all to ready to get involved and take the responsibility and potential fall-out from this situation.
26 March 2011, 06:53 PM
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And that minority need to deliver a coherent, credible defence of their position. If I was presented with one which stood-up under scrutiny, I'd change my mind.
26 March 2011, 06:59 PM
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26 March 2011, 08:20 PM
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26 March 2011, 09:36 PM
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26 March 2011, 10:59 PM
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The Russians traditionally oppose intervention, Kosovo being a good example, and had no incentive to support this one.
As for the Germans, the coalition government have two regional elections tomorrow (Sunday), and prior to the NA uprisings unfolding had pledged, effectively, to adopt an isolationist (some might say provincial) position on the world stage. Dimbleby summed it up nicely on Thursday's Question Time: "a big Switzerland". Former foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, said "Germany has lost its credibility in the United Nations and in the Middle East" and that abstention was a "scandalous mistake". In my view, they've estranged themselves from their allies having left us to do the graft. Whilst I get this, I do not and cannot respect it.
So, when eventually the US broke cover and got behind the draft, the resolution was passed and Gadaffi had to be stopped from showng "no mercy" to the people of Benghazi. The US were already in place in the region and lead the operation with UN backing and, of course, the military backing of France and Britain.
If we lead calls for intervention, we had to be amongst it militarily. If we hadn't lead calls for intervention, who would have? There would have been no intervention. If you back intervention, you back the UK and France leading it.
Moot for reasons outlined above.
And that's a big part of the debate, isn't it? The alternative to doing this is to withdraw our influence from the world stage and lose our capacity to help shape the world order; to become, in our case, a small Switzerland. History suggests we cannot, will not and should not do this.
Last edited by JTaylor; 27 March 2011 at 01:55 AM.
27 March 2011, 12:20 AM
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Dave