J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Got a letter today from work saying that they are changing the policy on company car, basically making it so only essential users can get a car, I don't need or want a company car as I have no real desire to get a diesel Insignia to do a tiny mileage in, however I have been there three years and it was part of the package I accepted and just get a letter saying its changed without consultation or any right of reply, ok, can understand the reasons, mainly cost saving and that's where I get a bit annoyed, the rate I get paid to provide a car has remained the same for three years whereas the cost to tax, insure and maintain a car has risen steadily in this time, as I had a choice I wasnt bothered but now I feel they are telling me I have to provide a car for the money I get each month.

The money is like kind of second class salary, i.e. pay rises don't apply, it isn't pensionable and they I think don't have to pay employers NI on it, so you get a pay rise and it only applies to 80 percent of your salary, the only way it seems to get an increase is to get a promotion, which I kind of have but I dont get any more in terms of a car allowance.

Ok, in perspective in the current climate its not the end of the world but am wondering what they have done is actually legal as there was no consultation and also wondering if anyone else's company are trying to get rid of co cars ?

Going to pen an email to the HR director but I dont want to rock the boat to much I just want to know when the allowances will be revised seeing as they have been the same for several years.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I'm about to be "trusted" so bang go my human rights...

dunx

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Eh ?

Steve vRS

Our company car policy just changed as well.

We now have to keep a car for 4 years instead of 3. Can't add your own money to upgrade the choice of car. Cash for car has been frozen for 5 years!

All without consultation.

I take a car as I do 15k business miles per year plus 10-12k private miles. I'm just waiting to change the Skoda for a BMW.

Steve

Account deleted by request

A lot of firms are doing this.

I have been banging on in our business for a couple of months that by being paid 40p a mile I am subsidising the company by using my vehicle on business, as it clearly costs more than this allowing for fuel/wear and tear/insurance/depreciation etc.

Its not so bad for me as it's my own business and there are ways round it. However, I can see council workers/nurses etc who use there cars will refuse to as at 40p they are subsidising local government or the nhs.

Intact I have already heard rumors that certain people at our council are talking about doing just is. It's a hard one to argue when anyone independent says it is 55-65p a milento run an average car.

Problem is the revenue can't afford to lift the threshold even though it has been the same for over a decade when fuel was 80p a litre and less.

Sorry I can't help with your situation j4cko, I would speak to hr and highlight your contract terms as a start and probably get advice off an employment lawyer.

Chop

Adrian F

At my place they say you have to provide a car for your job as they need you to travel to site and meetings because they dont want the cost of fleet cars and pay you a lump sum per year to cover this and then mileage as required, they then take 25% of the lump sum for parking it in the company car park where we are based?

zip106

My wifes company aren't renewing any cars when the leases expire.
We've got to buy our own in June. (but obviously get an allowance)

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Ok, sounds like its a general policy across companies but I was wondering whether those who take an allowance actually see it change year on year, I am in my third year there and my salary has gone up but the car allowance has stayed the same, now I don't have the option to take the car I think it should be reviewed annually to reflect the changing cost in motoring. I realise in the current climate that this may sound like bleating but I don't think because other people are having a hard time I should just doff my cap and not say anything as next time it is some other scheme to save the company money which has just announced decent profit.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

They / anyone can only change your T's & C's if both parties agree ... just say that you don't agree to the change f*cking annoys me when peeps change stuff without letting peeps know what their rights are.

TX.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Doing this to one of the guys I work with, they gave him a perk vehicle 10 years ago and each year have refused him a salary increase claiming the car was the increase.

Now they plan to take it off him.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ Don't see how they can fella if it's written in to his contract

TX.

Coffin Dodger

Same here, got a car allowance when I got promoted to principal engineer years ago as that was the deal. At the time I could have opted for a car too but eventually they decided no more company cars. It was just a perk anyway as none of us need cars for day to day business. Must be getting on for 10 years ago and the amount has remained the same, almost insignificant now when compared with salary. Told I could negotiate to take it as regular salary, i.e. subject to annual increase, pensionable, etc. but at a lower rate. Not sure if I'd be quids in yet?

Stupid thing now is that they don't even like us using our own cars for occasional business as then the company becomes responsible for all the health and safety implications to do with your own car. They need copies of MoT, service history, insurance, there's a procedure for checking your car before going on company business (tyres, oil...) etc. so mostly use either public transport or taxis. Also many warnings about not driving tired. Haven't bothered insuring my own car for business for several years.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I sent the following email to the HR person this morning, no reply as yet, their email classed it as a "perk", so what, what is wrong with having perks ? why do I have to be chained to steering wheel 12 hours a day to get a company car ! they get the perk of having me doing a good job, the perks are what makes a job, they are what attract new people to the company and retain existing ones, paring things back might look good on a spreadsheet or Powerpoint presentation for some smart **** HR goon but it tends to backfire when key staff wander into a new job.

This sums it up nicely for me !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M55m81BWdBc


Anyway the email,



I received the letter yesterday and read it with interest, I can see the motivation for doing this and currently I take the car allowance rather
Than the car but was considering a change at some point soon, obviously based on the change to the policy this is not an option but
It seems to be an alteration to the terms and conditions on which I joined.

I was thinking that changes to a benefits package was part of the terms and conditions and subject to consultation where both parties need to agree to the change though I suspect before issuing the change that this was considered, out of interest I would like to see the specific
Parts of the policy and contract of employment that allow this change to be made unilaterally.

Also, before, whilst there was a company car option, the car allowance as it stood was optional and as such meant there was a choice to be made, now the only option is to take the allowance, therefore many staff will have to run their own vehicles once the lease elapses on their current one and then fund their own from an allowance which, has in my three years with the company not increased and I have it on good authority that it has not changed in a lot longer than that so I was wondering if there are any plans to review the current allowances to reflect the increased cost of motoring ? effectively the car allowance is now kind of second class salary that is not affected by the cost of living rise, pension contributions etc.

I still believe that this is still an excellent company to work for, but this rather abrupt change to the policy has caused an amount of
Surprise, resentment and some worry as to what other changes may be made in a similar manner.

fitzscoob

Just playing devils advocate but some companies are doing all they can just to survive at the moment and cutting back on non essentials are part of the process. If you had the choice of keeping your car but losing your job in a years time due to the fact the business cannot sustain itself, which would you choose?

There is always going to be a differing point of view from an employer and employee.

Geezer

IIRC things like this are not necessarily in contract as it were, so they can do what they like. Worth checking. That said, even if it is on contract, they will put you in a position that effectively makes you agree of goodnight .

Seen it loads of times, sadly

Geezer

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

They are surviving quite well, good revenue, strong profit, healthy order book and decent reserves of liquid cash, about as healthy as a company can be these days, not saying they shouldnt do it but its the lack or warning or consultation that got me and the fact that the alternative car allowance has not changed in ten years.

hodgy0_2

J4cko - are you saying they are not only taking away your car allowance but denying you the perk of having an expensed car?

If so that seem pretty harsh to me, like you say it was part of your overall package.

For me it would represent a 7k pay reduction and I would be royally pissed off, in fact I have just got my employer to change my workplace to home based purely so I can expense my journey to the office.

speedking

Not correct.

Te employer can change what he likes and issue a new contract. If you carry on working then you are deemed to have accepted the new T&Cs. If you decide to leave then you can sue for constructive dismissal due to a substantive change to your employment conditions, and you may win compensation.

For example, your contract probably doesn't say that you will be paid a certain amount. If the employer decides to halve your pay without your consent, what are your options?

Removing a company car benefit is a less extreme version of the same action.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

No, we get to keep the car allowance, just we dont have the option to take a car any more which I can see the logic in, but I would have thought a change to the terms and conditions that I signed up for would have to be consultative, also the fact that the car allowance never changes, so you take the money as salary and when you do get a pay rise it is diluted as five grand of it stays the same.

Not saying I am hard done to and I know there are a lot worse off but that doesnt mean I have no right of reply, if I decided to make some unilateral changes to my working arrangements I am sure there would be questions asked.

I have given up worrying about other peoples situations to concentrate on mine, I worked pretty hard to get to a where I am, not exactly top of the pile but a respected and qualified techy. On balance its a great place but I dont want to see it eroded.

hodgy0_2

yes I see what you mean -- a bit irritating

as you say, I like you treat the car allowance as cash/salary when it isn't really

I always go for more cash on my bottom line salary as a matter of course, as this is what all your benefits are calculated against

douglasb

I may be "mis remembering" - (Thank you Hillary Clinton) - but I think there may be differences in the consultation that needs to take place depending on the numbers of employees.

Essentially - small company and there is a lot of leeway. Bigger company and the rules are stricter.

DCI Gene Hunt

Cars... think yourself lucky.... I had my crackberry taken off me and now have a normal phone, saving pennies saves pounds, apparently... I may get Swiss to laminate me a replica

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

True. In my experience at my previous job the company would inform workers of contract changes with a 90 day notice period. Once this period was up, the changes took place.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I don't agree mate. They can ask your permission to alter your contract to lower pay / remove a company car etc & you can refuse. You've signed a contract that can only be altered with both parties consent. How about I alter the contract so that I'm paid £10k more ...

TX.

druddle

You need to be careful doing this. As far as I am led to believe, and as far as the taxman is concerned, if you travel to the same place more than a certain percentage of your working week, it is deemed a permanent workplace, and as such you dont qualify for tax relief on the mileage (if you are claiming it). Have a look at the following links, as usual they are a bit ambiguous...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32065.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32070.htm

Dave

hodgy0_2

Thanks, interesting (and obvious when you think about it)

I suppose the additional tax relief is a bonus tbh, and maybe I will take a view whether to claim that portion of it via my self assement. The biggest bonus is being able to claim (from my employer) any journey I make during the working week

These days I tend to hotdesk anyway, and we have offices in the City and most large cities and I rarely work from one place for more than a few days at a time

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

If your in a union then have a word, change of contract has to be negotiated, and no matter what anyone say's about unions, it will stick up for you because your contract had the car in the package and they cannot just take that away without either compensating you or offering something else, if your not in a union then your screwed they can bend you over and give you all a big shafting

Tony

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ I don't see that Tony & no one has yet explained why that is. A contract is a contract that works both ways ... they need your agreement to alter it & vice versa. I'll give you a real example at our place - they wanted us to agree to "flexible" hours so that they could request we work less hours per month at the drop of a hat & get paid less too. I just said no.

TX.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

No, not in a union, not needed to be, its not a union shop, I just vote with my feet if I get p1ssed off, i ask once, I ask twice then I make my exit, though this is far far from enough to make me give up a job I really like for an employer that has otherwise been brilliant.

It is I suppose a non argument as I dont have a car now and had no real desire for some tedious diesel Astra or similar, its just the fact I dont like being told what is happening after the fact with no right of reply, it happened when I was in a callout rota, that wasnt the company just one manager who decided to remove me, he wasnt obligated to keep me in it but I told him that I didnt like the way he did it and asked for some notice, so got three months extra.

I want to raise the issue of the allowance not changing in ten years, they make a saving now on not providing cars, this is not an option so really the rate should reflect the realistic cost to run a car, I at least want some acknowledgement of my email, if I do not get one by the end of the week I will arrive at the persons desk to politely discuss why they have not extended that courtesy.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I thought a company car was part of your pay and listed as such in your contract. if you took the job knowing you were getting a car in lou of x amount of salary then they can not take it off you without increasing your salary. They are in breach of contract. All the jobs I have had that included a car have stated so in the contract I signed.