David Lock

Looks like I have lost one of my old favourites, almost certainly because of the extended cold period

Bloody heartbreaking - I lost two in last year's cold snap and nearly a third one but she did recover after nearly a week on her side looking pretty dead.

This one is on her side on bottom of pond. Now 26" plus so a good old size and there is sod all I can do

Anyone else have similar problems?

David


(No Christmas dinner jokes please )

DCI Gene Hunt

Can you not fit a heat exchanger to the pond?

David Lock

I've thought about stuff like that but I am pretty broke at present and the thought of the electric bill frightens me off. There would be 5000 gallons to warm up by a few degrees.

Plus last year was the first in 10 years that I have had problems and hoped that would be a one-off. But I got it wrong. Global warming doesn't work around here. David

Jamie

18,927.06 litres can you surf on it ?

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

David, my pond has the same capacity as yours.
For the past 3 years I have not applied any heating to the pond and have not lost any fish due to environmental conditions.
Admittedly it's far from the best conditions to keep them in, but heating 5000 gallons by 10 to 15 degrees is not a cheap thing to do.
I'm sure you have looked at different heating applications, but have you considered tapping off from your domestic centrtal heating? There is still a significant cost aspect to running this kind of heating, but I think it works out cheaper than electric heating.
Do you take other measures to preserve what little warmth is retained in the water?
Are you able to cover your pond? Wind chill is a major factor on surface cooling, and the most simple form of wind exclusion I have found to be worth 3 degrees alone.
Some people believe that adding measure of salt to their pond during the winter months helpd the fish. On the contrary it actually makes things worse by lowering the freezing point and preventing ice forming which would aid in protection against the wind.
HTH.

David Lock

Thanks for those sensible comments. I don't think a tap into the gas boiler is realistic as pond is quite far from boiler and I really don't think I could afford the extra gas cost. In cold spells I do stop the pumped waterfall I have and airstones went off months ago. Pond is not very deep about 3' 6" max although fish don't actually migrate to deepest part for some reason. It does have a light cover to try and keep willow leaves out (poisonous) but I keep wondering about getting a swimming pool cover and hacking it into the shape of the pond.

Failing that a quick trip to Northants and "borrow" some fish

David

dpb

youll need attachment points to rachet to of course . Iv resewn quite a few pool covers 10 x 5 metre that sort of thing this time of year , as a sailmaker ( east sussex ) - its a hellva lot cheaper than a new one i gather....


Little knitted fishy jackets ?

speedking

We lost our two big fish last year, hope that the smaller replacements will be OK.

We had 2" thick ice last week. The top melted but there was still a huge floe covering the whole pond, but underwater, never seen it like that before.

Assume you have a ball or something in the pond so there is some exposed surface to enable oxygenation.

David Lock

I've found a place that will deliver a 4m x 8m swimming pool solar cover for £125. I'd have to cut it to shape and it just floats on surface. They said it wouldn't blow away but I am not so sure.......

But I am not 100% certain if it is the cold that is to blame although I am pretty sure it is. This is one reason for asking on here if anyone else had similar.

Knitted jackets. Ummmmmm. That's 24 total. Nah

David

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Well dunx has a much smaller pond, but I run two medium sized pumps. We have noticed that the goldfish are looking for food at 5 degrees or above, so the water temperature at the bottom is kept high due to the number of Watts pumped in by both pumps.

I lost one of our ancient Golden Orfe last winter, but that one was around 12 years old. The Koi tend to suffer more if the filter is dirty or the oxygen levels drop in summer.

dunx

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

As a rule Koi are not true coldwater fish.
When reared in Japan they are kept outdoors in summer but brought indoors to large ponds in the Autumn/Winter and kept in naturally heated ground water. This is freely available and is a stable 15 to 17 degrees in temperature.
When they are imported here they generally do acclimatise, but really cold conditions cause their metabolism to slow down. It's a common belief that they hibernate, which is untrue. It's an effect that can be likened to a car battery losing it's charge. If you can replenish the charge by warming they will be ok. Left in permanently cold conditions, the battery can eventually expire.
Koi bred in UK weather conditions fare much better in the winter, but their physiology demands that they maintain a certain degree of normal activity. However even these will eventually succumb to freezing conditions.

I hope you find a suitable solution David.
Steve.

Leslie

Can't offer a way round it David, just wanted to say I am sorry for the loss.

Les

David Lock

Thanks chaps,

I know I could ask on a Koi forum but I have done that before with a myriad of technical comments and long lists of viruses which doesn't really help.

Yes I have things to prevent a total freeze over but in fact is hasn't frozen as much as it did during last year's prolonged winter.

Am now wondering if a full surface cover would restrict O2 too much?

Hibernation is interesting. I do have an old Tench which does its best to have a winter kip beneath some debris on the pond floor - got very disgruntled when I nudged him by mistake once

The Koi just rest motionless in a line on the pond floor although a few of them will swim about a bit if the sun comes out.

David

wrxsti280

iTrader: (6)

my old man keeps koi, had a 10ft x 10ft x 6ft pond full of them and lost the lot to a heron in the space of a couple of days a couple of years ago!!!!!

never suffered with the cold though

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Can you not build a temporary smaller pond, say a wooden frame with a liner, much lower capacity, nearer the house and add some heating to that, not sure of the impact on the fish, stress of movign them, minimum volumes of water etc though as not a fishkeeper.

Are there no local garden centres that have fish for sale, perhaps if they have spare indoor capacity they could house some for you for a small fee.

Can you section part of the pond and perhaps apply some heat to a smaller percentage ?

Other local fishkeepers with spare capacity (in warmer ponds) that could help out ?

Would a black cover help, obviously not much about but if something was black it would absorb more of what energy the sun has ?

DARB

My pond is 6 and a half feet deep and I havent had a problem with the cold ( touch wood ) its around 8500 gallons, I leave the filter pump and skimmer running so this keeps a decent sized area that doesnt freeze, even last week when the ice was 2" thick everywhere else on the surface

David Lock

Well the slightly encouraging news is the fish which has been on its side motionless for nearly 3 days has moved and is still in the land of the living. But I'd be much more relaxed if I knew warmer air was on the way rather than this arctic special - and it's not even real winter yet!!

Thanks for the other comments. Moving them to a warmer temporary sanctuary is not really a practical option for me. They'd accept a move but catching them first is a job in itself. Netting the first 2 or 3 is fine but then the others sniff out what is going on and charge around the pond stirring up the muck on the bottom and the only way to get them is to half drain the pond and wander around in waders hoping

wrxsti280 - sorry to hear about your old man's pond I've lost a couple of fish over the years to those scrawny b,arstards but to lose the lot must be gut wrenching.

Fins crossed, David

howellsy42

my dads "pond" i say pound but its not really its more a small boating lake with an island in the middle lol its 12meters by 35meters roughly and at its deepest point its about 14feet deep i built it for him when we had a spare digger stored in are field he breeds koi in breeding tanks at the house then puts them in the pound i was telling him about the cold and he said the deeper the better he only really loses koi to the scum that keep fishing it and taking them away he has lost some of his really big ones this summer and he is quite gutted his pound had a good half foot deep ice on it my two rotties couldnt work out why they could run across it as normally they swim in it !

MMT WRX

My Dad is waiting to see if his Koi are ok. He has a few that are around the 30lb mark that hes had for years. His pond is about 4ft deep and has about 2" of ice covering the surface bar a small area where the recirculating pump feeds back in. He's lost them before in cold spells and never knows what to do for the best and he's kept them for 40 years, even imported them from Japan years ago.
I hope everybody's are ok

kbsub

I floated bubble wrap on my koi pond a few years ago you need the big thick stuff , I think I got my from Clearwater koi in York . I woudn't slow any pumps down and keep a good flow going around the pond . Good luck I know how you feel .

David Lock

UPDATE

Well a couple of weeks ago I got the net out to retrieve the corpse and the fish swam off slowly!

It is still alive but seemingly in a state of hibernation lying on its side motionless. I check on it daily and obviously the water is a few degrees warmer. But Koi don't really hibernate as such. They tend to lie still on the bottom with metabolism slowed down a shade.

So all very odd and any fish keeper's comments welcome. I don't think there is anything I can do except wait and see?

David

MMT WRX

I'm not sure there is anything you can do David. My dads pond has been loosing about 8" of water in a 24hr period over Christmas. I've been going down every day and running a hose to refill it (about 5hrs), then winding the hose away at night so it doesn't freeze. The ice in places looked to be about 6" thick, so I don't know if this has been pushing on the side walls and creating a leak. Anyway its all thawed now and the water level is holding and the fish all seem to be swimming around quite healthy. I know the recirculating pump creates a nice flow that the fish like to get in and swim against. Fecking things have caused me a lot of time and trouble this Christmas.

David Lock

Losing 8" a day sounds like it has to be a leak. But self-cured, odd

Filter wasn't freezing and overflowing? And it must be a very large pond or a very slow hose pipe

Yep, nothing I can do. Just hope for the best.

David

HOWY

I thought people bought floating pond heaters, as the main issue with winter isn't that the ice kills fish its the build up of gasses so if you keep an area of the surface free of ice the gasses can escape. Also helps if the pond is deep as it will be warmer the deeper you go. Real Koi ponds are supposed to be about 12feet deep!

David Lock

At no time has the surface been completely frozen so water can breath. I agree that my pond should be deeper.

Heater is not practical as I couldn't afford enough heat to make any difference.

David

CHOLTON

I am a novice keeper of Koi and like mentioned Koi forums get too tecnical and they all just argue amongst themselves so you end up with conflicting answers .

I dont seem too have lost any so far , i turn my pump speed up which lowers the efficiency of my filter but helps prevent ice building up around the waterfall but i also leave my airstones on and always have done i just bring them up around 3ft from the bottom so i dont disturb the temps at the very bottom .
All my fish are very still , they do move around the bottom but very slow , Our Diamond Sturgeon makes the most of this cold weather every year .

Best bet maybe shelter with a cover like said .