Opinions please guys
08 December 2010, 03:56 PM
#1
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Opinions please guys
My daughter has a young family, boy and girl 7 & 10 at the same school, and unfortunately they are not well off. I only mention this because of the descriminatory nature (so I believe) of what has happened today.
The school put on some kind of extra curricular activity which required parents to make contributory payment, a payment my daughter couldn't afford, and told the school so. No surprises that she was told her two children could not take part in the activity... fair enough I have no problem with that.
What I was surprised and annoyed about was that a short time prior to this activity ocurring she received a text message from the school asking her to remove her children from school for the afternoon.
I am right in thinking somebody at the school needs one of my size nines in their ****?
Surely this is predjudicial treament, and whatever happened to equal opportunity policies?
I would appreciate some balanced feedback please as I'm about to boil over.
The school put on some kind of extra curricular activity which required parents to make contributory payment, a payment my daughter couldn't afford, and told the school so. No surprises that she was told her two children could not take part in the activity... fair enough I have no problem with that.
What I was surprised and annoyed about was that a short time prior to this activity ocurring she received a text message from the school asking her to remove her children from school for the afternoon.
I am right in thinking somebody at the school needs one of my size nines in their ****?
Surely this is predjudicial treament, and whatever happened to equal opportunity policies?
I would appreciate some balanced feedback please as I'm about to boil over.
08 December 2010, 04:03 PM
#2
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Before storming in (which I've done before) perhaps ask the school first why your Grandchildren were asked to be absent from school during school hours. Wait for their answer and then decide whether someone needs putting in their place.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
08 December 2010, 04:22 PM
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Before storming in (which I've done before) perhaps ask the school first why your Grandchildren were asked to be absent from school during school hours. Wait for their answer and then decide whether someone needs putting in their place.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
Chip
08 December 2010, 04:40 PM
#4
Was it a pantomime visit? If so, the whole school goes and there would be no staff left to take care of the kids that don't go.
Taking a member of staff off one of the buses to look after a few in school might result in there not being the correct pupil/adult ratio, so one bus would have to be taken off, so disappointing a whole load of kids. Pupil adult ratio is quite low for out of school visits, especially with younger kids.
Not easy on your daughter, but I'm sure she wouldn't want the other kiddies to suffer, would she?
Taking a member of staff off one of the buses to look after a few in school might result in there not being the correct pupil/adult ratio, so one bus would have to be taken off, so disappointing a whole load of kids. Pupil adult ratio is quite low for out of school visits, especially with younger kids.
Not easy on your daughter, but I'm sure she wouldn't want the other kiddies to suffer, would she?
08 December 2010, 04:45 PM
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Thanks guys. Just to be clear - I don't intend getting physical with anyone at the school over this, it was a metaphorical size 9 
I completely agree, and this is the main reason for my irritation.
These two kids are old enough to know they have been shown up in front of their classmates. The worst bit is that if I had been aware that this was going to happen I would gladly have stumped up the cost myself, as you do for your own.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
These two kids are old enough to know they have been shown up in front of their classmates. The worst bit is that if I had been aware that this was going to happen I would gladly have stumped up the cost myself, as you do for your own.
08 December 2010, 04:49 PM
#6
That is unacceptable, the duty of the school is to provide a full day of schooling, your council tax pays for them to do so. What if the parent(s) are at work? IMO it is up to the school should provide alternative activities for those not able to attend and this was the case when I was at school.
08 December 2010, 04:51 PM
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Was it a pantomime visit? If so, the whole school goes and there would be no staff left to take care of the kids that don't go.
Taking a member of staff off one of the buses to look after a few in school might result in there not being the correct pupil/adult ratio, so one bus would have to be taken off, so disappointing a whole load of kids. Pupil adult ratio is quite low for out of school visits, especially with younger kids.
Not easy on your daughter, but I'm sure she wouldn't want the other kiddies to suffer, would she?
Taking a member of staff off one of the buses to look after a few in school might result in there not being the correct pupil/adult ratio, so one bus would have to be taken off, so disappointing a whole load of kids. Pupil adult ratio is quite low for out of school visits, especially with younger kids.
Not easy on your daughter, but I'm sure she wouldn't want the other kiddies to suffer, would she?
It just made my blood boil when I heard about this. What would the school say if we said we were taking them out for a day at Alton Towers? Seems to be a different issue when the school can't manage, and my daughter has to stop work to have the kids as a result.
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08 December 2010, 05:09 PM
#8
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I think this is very poor behaviour on the school's part but isn't it up to dad or your daughter to deal with?
When my kids had school stuff like this the letter to parents always said that if parents/carers were a bit skint - or words to that effect - then to let them know in private and the school almost always waived the charge.
I also second the comments about the kids being told to go home early. An abrogation of their duty as a school.
This is where a word with a parent governor might help as they are there to represent the parents and know the ropes.
dl
When my kids had school stuff like this the letter to parents always said that if parents/carers were a bit skint - or words to that effect - then to let them know in private and the school almost always waived the charge.
I also second the comments about the kids being told to go home early. An abrogation of their duty as a school.
This is where a word with a parent governor might help as they are there to represent the parents and know the ropes.
dl
08 December 2010, 05:10 PM
#9
For some time our school has said that any financial issues over paying for school trips will be considered on an individual bases. I believe they've paid for some children to take part in school trips (ie those considered part of the school curriculum). I don't exactly know how they pay for that. Recently our school has said that these requests have become greater to the extent they cannot afford to pay. However rather than let anyone miss out they have asked for extra voluntary contributions or the trip is cancelled. It's not come to that as others appear to have paid and extra.
The other possibility is after school activities, they will not pay for those and it appears that some people have been trying to sneak their kids into a sports class for free. We now have to pay for the activity in advance or the child is not accepted. My son (9) is awful at picking up the activity letter and letting us know about said activity and a couple of times we've had to rush around on the day of the activity, pleading with the school secretary (& waving a £20 note under her nose) to get him in.
Could it be the latter type of activity? It wouldn't surprise me if my lad said "we're playing footie after school" and then to be called saying he can't take part because we haven't paid.
The other possibility is after school activities, they will not pay for those and it appears that some people have been trying to sneak their kids into a sports class for free. We now have to pay for the activity in advance or the child is not accepted. My son (9) is awful at picking up the activity letter and letting us know about said activity and a couple of times we've had to rush around on the day of the activity, pleading with the school secretary (& waving a £20 note under her nose) to get him in.
Could it be the latter type of activity? It wouldn't surprise me if my lad said "we're playing footie after school" and then to be called saying he can't take part because we haven't paid.
08 December 2010, 05:14 PM
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Before storming in (which I've done before) perhaps ask the school first why your Grandchildren were asked to be absent from school during school hours. Wait for their answer and then decide whether someone needs putting in their place.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
I would be of the opinion that if you are excluded from activities that have to be paid for which are during normal school hours then the school is responsible for finding alternative things for those excluded to be doing as it is during school time. You can't just have your children not at school because there are paid activities taking place that some may not be able to afford.
08 December 2010, 05:23 PM
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DL - she is a single parent, so nobody to fight her fights unfortunately. As you say this could have been handled more sensitively. Hmmm.. parent governor... good idea thank you.
MM - This was an after-lunch activity, and as I posted, my girl had told the school she couldn't afford it, so it was know about well in advance.
MM - This was an after-lunch activity, and as I posted, my girl had told the school she couldn't afford it, so it was know about well in advance.
08 December 2010, 05:32 PM
#13
ok, then that's not right.
I think the threat in our school that the complete activity would be cancelled was enough to get the more well of stumping up the extra. I think I'd rather see a cancellation than some kids excluded (even though we ourselves could always pay). But I guess some parents would say tough luck, kick the unfortunate kids out. While I understand parents doing that, it seems disgraceful a school has followed that line.
I think the threat in our school that the complete activity would be cancelled was enough to get the more well of stumping up the extra. I think I'd rather see a cancellation than some kids excluded (even though we ourselves could always pay). But I guess some parents would say tough luck, kick the unfortunate kids out. While I understand parents doing that, it seems disgraceful a school has followed that line.
08 December 2010, 05:35 PM
#14
Strange,at my girls school,infant and junior, if they attend an event that requires payment its always a contribution etc, then it says IF the cost is not met ALL children will not attend,not just the kids whose parents didnt contribute
And ive never heard of the Whole school attending anything,its usually always certain yrs and if a child cannot attend for say,religious reasons,that child spends the afternoon in a different class,albeit a younger group or whatever
And ive never heard of the Whole school attending anything,its usually always certain yrs and if a child cannot attend for say,religious reasons,that child spends the afternoon in a different class,albeit a younger group or whatever
08 December 2010, 05:48 PM
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I have no information on whether other children were/have been treated in the same way.
The way it looks to me is that these children (they just happen to be my grandchildren) have been excluded from school because of their parent's inability to pay. This is not a private (public?) school and we all pay our share of local taxes, and I believe the school has a duty of care to all children and it appears to me that the school has reneged on their obligation to provide adequate care for them.
As has been said I need to find out who is responsible for, andthe reasoning behind, this decision.
The way it looks to me is that these children (they just happen to be my grandchildren) have been excluded from school because of their parent's inability to pay. This is not a private (public?) school and we all pay our share of local taxes, and I believe the school has a duty of care to all children and it appears to me that the school has reneged on their obligation to provide adequate care for them.
As has been said I need to find out who is responsible for, andthe reasoning behind, this decision.
08 December 2010, 05:55 PM
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A school local to me runs a couple of charity days a year where the profits go towards paying for the more skint children to attend certain events. Alternatively when the payment forms go out they could have a box for 'contributions' to fund those children who would otherwise not be able to attend. I know I would always put a couple of quid in.
It may be worth going to the governors with suggestions as well as a bollocking.
Kev
It may be worth going to the governors with suggestions as well as a bollocking.
Kev
08 December 2010, 07:42 PM
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You could phone up the LEA and clarify the legal situation re school requirement to keep children at school during school hours?
But don't get too wound up as it sounds like your daughter has enough to worry about bringing up two kids on her own and she'll end up worrying about you worrying
dl
But don't get too wound up as it sounds like your daughter has enough to worry about bringing up two kids on her own and she'll end up worrying about you worrying
dl
08 December 2010, 08:02 PM
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I'm afraid I see this as discrimination at best, and at worst nothing better than a form of bullying. Sounds a little harsh perhaps but I'm really quite angry about it, and I can't see any room for an allowable mistake. This is a bad decison made against somebody in a disadvantaged position.
08 December 2010, 09:20 PM
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Fair point David.
I'm afraid I see this as discrimination at best, and at worst nothing better than a form of bullying. Sounds a little harsh perhaps but I'm really quite angry about it, and I can't see any room for an allowable mistake. This is a bad decison made against somebody in a disadvantaged position.
I'm afraid I see this as discrimination at best, and at worst nothing better than a form of bullying. Sounds a little harsh perhaps but I'm really quite angry about it, and I can't see any room for an allowable mistake. This is a bad decison made against somebody in a disadvantaged position.
dl
08 December 2010, 09:34 PM
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My daughter has a young family, boy and girl 7 & 10 at the same school, and unfortunately they are not well off. I only mention this because of the descriminatory nature (so I believe) of what has happened today.
The school put on some kind of extra curricular activity which required parents to make contributory payment, a payment my daughter couldn't afford, and told the school so. No surprises that she was told her two children could not take part in the activity... fair enough I have no problem with that.
What I was surprised and annoyed about was that a short time prior to this activity ocurring she received a text message from the school asking her to remove her children from school for the afternoon.
I am right in thinking somebody at the school needs one of my size nines in their ****?
Surely this is predjudicial treament, and whatever happened to equal opportunity policies?
I would appreciate some balanced feedback please as I'm about to boil over.
The school put on some kind of extra curricular activity which required parents to make contributory payment, a payment my daughter couldn't afford, and told the school so. No surprises that she was told her two children could not take part in the activity... fair enough I have no problem with that.
What I was surprised and annoyed about was that a short time prior to this activity ocurring she received a text message from the school asking her to remove her children from school for the afternoon.
I am right in thinking somebody at the school needs one of my size nines in their ****?
Surely this is predjudicial treament, and whatever happened to equal opportunity policies?
I would appreciate some balanced feedback please as I'm about to boil over.
All this pc garbage that is going around and schools being the worst about not offending people, have done the most offensive thing ever to your Grandchildren.
Your daughter needs to see the Head and if she gets nowhere there, I would be wanting to meet with the School Governors.
Good Luck
09 December 2010, 01:07 PM
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A lot of conclusions being drawn here. It's certainly a shame the parent is unable to provide sufficiently for their children and I'm not sure the school can be accused of 'bullying' fgs. I'll send a tenner so the blighters can go on the activity. Is your family destitute?
09 December 2010, 01:18 PM
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A lot of conclusions being drawn here. It's certainly a shame the parent is unable to provide sufficiently for their children and I'm not sure the school can be accused of 'bullying' fgs. I'll send a tenner so the blighters can go on the activity. Is your family destitute?
dl
09 December 2010, 01:33 PM
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A lot of conclusions being drawn here. It's certainly a shame the parent is unable to provide sufficiently for their children and I'm not sure the school can be accused of 'bullying' fgs. I'll send a tenner so the blighters can go on the activity. Is your family destitute?
Shame really, but there's always one joker in a pack.
09 December 2010, 01:40 PM
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I'm not joking. The primary reason your grandchildren have put in this position is because their family have been unable to provide for them. The response: blame the school. How much did the activity cost?
09 December 2010, 01:47 PM
#28
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have to say having a go cos they can;t afford it seems ot be a bit harsh to me, not everyone is rolling in cash.
tbh i can see both sides of the argument, however i'd sde witht he parents on this one, think the school should have put some cover of some sort on, if folks are at work how can they be there to look after the kids?
tbh i can see both sides of the argument, however i'd sde witht he parents on this one, think the school should have put some cover of some sort on, if folks are at work how can they be there to look after the kids?
09 December 2010, 02:38 PM
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with the cost of the event, which BTW was a visit by a magician during school time.
As I have already said had I known about this in advance there would be no question of covering the cost.
And whether my daughter could lend Alan Sugar a bob or two, again is totally irrelevant.
What this is about is that children, any children - yours or mine, have been made an example of and have been EXCLUDED from school through no fault of their own.
Just to be absolutely clear for your benefit JT, this has nothing to do with money. End of.
09 December 2010, 02:44 PM
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I still think it is worth asking the school face to face what the reason was for removing the two children. They might have a reasonable explanation but if not you can then say the appropriate words to cover how you feel about it.
Les
Les