How the hell is halal & kosher meat still legal?!!
11 November 2010, 09:48 AM
#1
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How the hell is halal & kosher meat still legal?!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hospitals.html
I eat meat, but it's quite important to me that the animal has suffered as little as possible. Always buy free range chicken & eggs when possible for example, but it seems more and more meat is halal without being labelled as such
How this hasn't been banned yet is beyond me, but hopefully it will happen. I don't really care what prayers are said over the animal as obviously this is meaningless, but the animal should be stunned before it's killed. There is no excuse for inhumane treatment, especially when methods to minimise the suffering (stunning the animal) are widely available.
I eat meat, but it's quite important to me that the animal has suffered as little as possible. Always buy free range chicken & eggs when possible for example, but it seems more and more meat is halal without being labelled as such
How this hasn't been banned yet is beyond me, but hopefully it will happen. I don't really care what prayers are said over the animal as obviously this is meaningless, but the animal should be stunned before it's killed. There is no excuse for inhumane treatment, especially when methods to minimise the suffering (stunning the animal) are widely available.
11 November 2010, 09:57 AM
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There are methods available to minimise the suffering during slaughter (stunning), but it appears animals are increasingly being slaughters while fully consious to satisfy religious demands and consumers are not aware of this as the meat isn't labelled as such, It's beggers belief.
11 November 2010, 09:57 AM
#4
The freerange stuff is a bit of a gimmick too.
OK the meat does taste better and in theory its had a better life.
However, coming from a farm background lets take chickens/turkeys.
These are rounded up in a room.
Chased around a bit trying to catch one, and then pull its neck.
OK the meat does taste better and in theory its had a better life.
However, coming from a farm background lets take chickens/turkeys.
These are rounded up in a room.
Chased around a bit trying to catch one, and then pull its neck.
11 November 2010, 10:01 AM
#5
As for "animal lovers" who keep carnivorous pets, all I can say is - what more do you need to know about the human condition
11 November 2010, 10:01 AM
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Even if I didn't eat meat, I wouldn't suddenly not care how animals are slaughtered.
There are methods available to minimise the suffering during slaughter (stunning), but it appears animals are increasingly being slaughters while fully consious to satisfy religious demands and consumers are not aware of this as the meat isn't labelled as such, It's beggers belief.
There are methods available to minimise the suffering during slaughter (stunning), but it appears animals are increasingly being slaughters while fully consious to satisfy religious demands and consumers are not aware of this as the meat isn't labelled as such, It's beggers belief.
If you didn't eat meat I feel your argument might carry a little more weight!
11 November 2010, 10:10 AM
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Are you stating that the level of suffering an animal goes through when its slaughtered is totally irrelevant to you?
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11 November 2010, 10:24 AM
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this thread lost kudos when I saw it was a daily mail link.
however, having your throat cut, not being able to breath properly until you pass out and then continue to bleed to death, doesn't sound like any death a god should condone.
however, having your throat cut, not being able to breath properly until you pass out and then continue to bleed to death, doesn't sound like any death a god should condone.
11 November 2010, 10:27 AM
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My cousin's wife is a moroccan muslim and only uses halal meat.
My grandma nearly had a fit last christmas when she found out the meat was halal. She thought it was some kind of african goat like animal.
When they explained to her what it was, she refused to eat "That foreign religious **** for darkys"
Bless her, she is nearly 90 and still quite racist
My grandma nearly had a fit last christmas when she found out the meat was halal. She thought it was some kind of african goat like animal.
When they explained to her what it was, she refused to eat "That foreign religious **** for darkys"
Bless her, she is nearly 90 and still quite racist
11 November 2010, 10:28 AM
#12
The scientific facts
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.
The Halal method
With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.
The Western method
Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.
The Halal method
With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.
The Western method
Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
11 November 2010, 10:30 AM
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this has all been done to death before.. what is it they say.. use search!
https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...ght=halal+meat
lol unbelievable every week theres a new thread about us
https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...ght=halal+meat
lol unbelievable every week theres a new thread about us
11 November 2010, 10:32 AM
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I agree with this.
I don't really like meat at all, but thats a taste reason and nothing ethical at all as I don't have a 'problem' with the slaughter of animals for our sustinence, but I do find it hard to see how doing the above makes their meat 'better' than ours or worth of a blessing. It's cruelty.
Ok so I know the killing of any animal is cruel, but as has been mentioned there are certain ways and means of doing so.
I'm a country girl so the whole slaughter thing doesnt phase me but needless cruel practices in the name of religion is beyond me.
re-reading this, i dare say I haven't worded that as elloquently as I could have done
11 November 2010, 10:36 AM
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this has all been done to death before.. what is it they say.. use search!
https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...ght=halal+meat
lol unbelievable every week theres a new thread about us
https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...ght=halal+meat
lol unbelievable every week theres a new thread about us
11 November 2010, 10:37 AM
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I think you're missing my point here Trout. I'm not saying eating free range justifys my consumption of meat, I'm stating that the suffering of the animals I eat (and others eat) should be kept to a minimum, and that the most humane methods of slaughter should be employed.
Are you stating that the level of suffering an animal goes through when its slaughtered is totally irrelevant to you?
Are you stating that the level of suffering an animal goes through when its slaughtered is totally irrelevant to you?
Go to a slaughterhouse, where your meat is killed using 'stun' methods and come out of there without being sick, or at least tempering your meat appetites and I will be impressed. From what I know of it, animal slaughter on a large scale is not a pleasant thing no matter what the methodology.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Halal slaughter, done properly, is one of the most humane methods of animal slaughter. It may look disgusting as blood pours out everywhere, but it is very quick and efficient.
11 November 2010, 10:42 AM
#17
Daily mail link aside, I do see it as the last insult to the pitiful life these animals have. What is stopping the prayer being said before stunning the animal? Other industrires find their ways to weasel around worded interpretations (banks being one, unsuprisingly), so why not this one?
I'm an avid fan of meat, especially pork ( no issue there
), and fully aware of the slaughter process - its not pretty but I'm not deluded into thinking meat comes preprepared on a shrink-wrapped plastic tray.
I had to laugh at the butchers on BBC1's "Turn back time -The high street" the other day where a customer with a little girl who looked mortified to see a gutted rabbit. I suspect the girl will be a veggie in later life
I'm an avid fan of meat, especially pork ( no issue there
), and fully aware of the slaughter process - its not pretty but I'm not deluded into thinking meat comes preprepared on a shrink-wrapped plastic tray.I had to laugh at the butchers on BBC1's "Turn back time -The high street" the other day where a customer with a little girl who looked mortified to see a gutted rabbit. I suspect the girl will be a veggie in later life
11 November 2010, 10:55 AM
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I have to admit I am not hugely passionate either way on the halal killing. It's not like assembly line chicken slaughter is 100% effective - a proportion of the chickens miss the shock and decapitation stages and die in the flailing rubber defeatherer thingy.
What gets me is that, somehow, it's justified as a religious discipline. Apart from General Zod (coincidentally the name of my Roomba robot vacuum), what being thinks it's cool to have things slaughtered in their name?!
What gets me is that, somehow, it's justified as a religious discipline. Apart from General Zod (coincidentally the name of my Roomba robot vacuum), what being thinks it's cool to have things slaughtered in their name?!
11 November 2010, 10:59 AM
#19
The scientific facts
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.
The Halal method
With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.
The Western method
Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.
The Halal method
With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.
The Western method
Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
11 November 2010, 11:15 AM
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eggy, but what are you views on this method of slaughter? Do you feel the most modern methods with the intension of minimal suffering should be used, or traditional methods involving having the animal slaughtered while fully conscious? Would be interested to hear your views.
edit: ive made a post on this thread, looking back, probably havnt worded it in the nicest way, anyway gotta get back to work, here is a quick copy and paste.: https://www.scoobynet.com/745624-hal...-subway-6.html
Originally Posted by eggy790 back in 2009
half you guys on here are so ignorant, half of you have never stept foot in a slaughter house! and trust me your so called inhumane stunning method! isnt what you make it out to be, neither is your method of killing chickens..
am sure theres probs a few vids on the net on how painfull it is for the animal!
theres been tests done about the captive bolt way of killing them and how its inhumane!
the islamic method is to sharpen your knife before hand to relieve pain.. its a deep incision with the sharp knife cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides as also the trachea and esophagus!
there were tests done.. a comparison. which to cut short..
doing the halal method of slaughter.. the first 3 seconds frm the time of slaughter the EEG did not show any change from the graph as before the slaughter showing that he animal did not feel any pain during ot immediately after the incision.
follwoing the 3 seconds the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep! i.e. unconsiousness due to the large amounts of blood gushing out..
after 6 seconds the EEG recorded zero travel showing no feeling of pain at all!
the stunning method, showed unconsiousness after stunning.. EEG shows severe pain immediately after stunning and the animals heart beating earlier than when slaughter with a knife.. not only being cruel btu also unhygenic for the customer as there is more blood retension inthe meat.
where as with halal slaughter the heart was still pounding and the reflex action of the spinal cord drove miximum blood from the body!
SO the knife should be sharp and it should involve a swift cutting of vessels of the neck so it disconnects the flow of blood to the nerves in the brain responsible for pain. Thus the animal does not feel pain.
The movements and withering that happen to the animal after the cut is made are not due to pain, but due to the contraction and relaxation of the muscles deficient in blood (the spine i mentioned).
they are also supposed to not sharpen the knife in front of the animal or kill an animal in front of another animal!
its not cruelty to animals liek you say it is.. its a carefull procedure!
saying all this.. halal meat is the uk is very doubtfull in a lot of places.. so many dodgy slaughterers.. and those not slaughtering correctly .. making the meat haraam even though they say or expect it to be halal..
same with those that have an audio cassete playing durin the slaughter instead of slaughtering by their own mouth in the name of god.. so that is also forbidden lol anyway going off track here..
the method presecribed is humane, whether the people do it correctly nowadays is a different question..
am sure theres probs a few vids on the net on how painfull it is for the animal!
theres been tests done about the captive bolt way of killing them and how its inhumane!
the islamic method is to sharpen your knife before hand to relieve pain.. its a deep incision with the sharp knife cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides as also the trachea and esophagus!
there were tests done.. a comparison. which to cut short..
doing the halal method of slaughter.. the first 3 seconds frm the time of slaughter the EEG did not show any change from the graph as before the slaughter showing that he animal did not feel any pain during ot immediately after the incision.
follwoing the 3 seconds the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep! i.e. unconsiousness due to the large amounts of blood gushing out..
after 6 seconds the EEG recorded zero travel showing no feeling of pain at all!
the stunning method, showed unconsiousness after stunning.. EEG shows severe pain immediately after stunning and the animals heart beating earlier than when slaughter with a knife.. not only being cruel btu also unhygenic for the customer as there is more blood retension inthe meat.
where as with halal slaughter the heart was still pounding and the reflex action of the spinal cord drove miximum blood from the body!
SO the knife should be sharp and it should involve a swift cutting of vessels of the neck so it disconnects the flow of blood to the nerves in the brain responsible for pain. Thus the animal does not feel pain.
The movements and withering that happen to the animal after the cut is made are not due to pain, but due to the contraction and relaxation of the muscles deficient in blood (the spine i mentioned).
they are also supposed to not sharpen the knife in front of the animal or kill an animal in front of another animal!
its not cruelty to animals liek you say it is.. its a carefull procedure!
saying all this.. halal meat is the uk is very doubtfull in a lot of places.. so many dodgy slaughterers.. and those not slaughtering correctly .. making the meat haraam even though they say or expect it to be halal..
same with those that have an audio cassete playing durin the slaughter instead of slaughtering by their own mouth in the name of god.. so that is also forbidden lol anyway going off track here..
the method presecribed is humane, whether the people do it correctly nowadays is a different question..
Last edited by eggy790; 11 November 2010 at 11:19 AM.
11 November 2010, 11:39 AM
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On this forum is every body just against Muslims because it sure looks it to me as there are different topics about Muslims.. Can I ask a question just say I come to a Subaru meet in my Subaru and I'm Muslims what's your thought on that aswell will you say oh look Muslim in Subaru that's wrong????
11 November 2010, 11:42 AM
#24
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On this forum is every body just against Muslims because it sure looks it to me as there are different topics about Muslims.. Can I ask a question just say I come to a Subaru meet in my Subaru and I'm Muslims what's your thought on that aswell will you say oh look Muslim in Subaru that's wrong????
11 November 2010, 11:43 AM
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Thanks eggy 
Interesting to hear that your belief is that the halal method actually results in less suffering for the animal, and although I don't actually agree that this is the case, I find it reassuring to know you think that minimal suffering is important.
Interesting to hear that your belief is that the halal method actually results in less suffering for the animal, and although I don't actually agree that this is the case, I find it reassuring to know you think that minimal suffering is important.
11 November 2010, 11:50 AM
#26
On this forum is every body just against Muslims because it sure looks it to me as there are different topics about Muslims.. Can I ask a question just say I come to a Subaru meet in my Subaru and I'm Muslims what's your thought on that aswell will you say oh look Muslim in Subaru that's wrong????
And if you look carefully there is only a handful of people who regularly posts these types a topic. So no, not everybody is against Muslims and you'll also note its only in the confines of NSR. But if one purposly reads every post with an intention to see it that way, it may well seem like that - when its actually just debate. We're allowed to debate; debating a contentious topic, or even agreeing with it is not an antireligious act.
Last edited by ALi-B; 11 November 2010 at 11:51 AM.
11 November 2010, 11:53 AM
#28
Two Irishmen called Seamus and Murphy fancied a pint or two but didn't have a lot of money between them, they could only raise the staggering sum of one Euro.
Murphy said 'Hang on, I have an idea.'
...
He went next door to the butcher's shop and came out with one large sausage.
Seamus said 'Are you crazy? Now we don't have any money at all!'
Murphy replied, 'Don't worry - just follow me.'
He went into the pub where he immediately ordered two pints of Guinness and two glasses of Jameson Whisky.
Seamus said 'Now you've lost it.. Do you know how much trouble we will be in? We haven't got any money!!'
Murphy replied, with a smile. 'Don't worry, I have a plan , Cheers! '
They downed their Drinks. Murphy said, 'OK, I'll stick the sausage through my zipper and you go on your knees and put it in your mouth.'
The barman noticed them, went berserk, and threw them out.
They continued this, pub after pub, getting more and more drunk, all for free.
At the tenth pub Seamus said 'Murphy - I don't think I can do any more of this. I'm drunk and me knees are killing me!'
Murphy said, 'How do you think I feel? I can't even remember which pub I lost the sausage in! '.
Murphy said 'Hang on, I have an idea.'
...
He went next door to the butcher's shop and came out with one large sausage.
Seamus said 'Are you crazy? Now we don't have any money at all!'
Murphy replied, 'Don't worry - just follow me.'
He went into the pub where he immediately ordered two pints of Guinness and two glasses of Jameson Whisky.
Seamus said 'Now you've lost it.. Do you know how much trouble we will be in? We haven't got any money!!'
Murphy replied, with a smile. 'Don't worry, I have a plan , Cheers! '
They downed their Drinks. Murphy said, 'OK, I'll stick the sausage through my zipper and you go on your knees and put it in your mouth.'
The barman noticed them, went berserk, and threw them out.
They continued this, pub after pub, getting more and more drunk, all for free.
At the tenth pub Seamus said 'Murphy - I don't think I can do any more of this. I'm drunk and me knees are killing me!'
Murphy said, 'How do you think I feel? I can't even remember which pub I lost the sausage in! '.
11 November 2010, 12:04 PM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hospitals.html
I eat meat, but it's quite important to me that the animal has suffered as little as possible. Always buy free range chicken & eggs when possible for example, but it seems more and more meat is halal without being labelled as such
How this hasn't been banned yet is beyond me, but hopefully it will happen. I don't really care what prayers are said over the animal as obviously this is meaningless, but the animal should be stunned before it's killed. There is no excuse for inhumane treatment, especially when methods to minimise the suffering (stunning the animal) are widely available.
I eat meat, but it's quite important to me that the animal has suffered as little as possible. Always buy free range chicken & eggs when possible for example, but it seems more and more meat is halal without being labelled as such
How this hasn't been banned yet is beyond me, but hopefully it will happen. I don't really care what prayers are said over the animal as obviously this is meaningless, but the animal should be stunned before it's killed. There is no excuse for inhumane treatment, especially when methods to minimise the suffering (stunning the animal) are widely available.
I do not have any complaint about eating meat however.
I don't see why a method which is required in another country should be accepted here and certainly not producing meat for this country's people to eat by using that method without us knowing about it.
Les