kryten

I've just passed my theory test (100% in 7 minutes ) and am about to do the direct access course.

Problem is, I'm trying to figure out what bike to get when I've passed.

I'm looking for something that is quick but is fairly friendly for a new rider and I like bikes with full fairing.

I really fancy a CBR600 or GSX600R but the insurance is the real issue. Something like a Fazer 600 would be a bit cheaper and probably not really that much different, day to day.

So, any suggestions?

phd

Passed my test 3 weeks ago, bought a Kawa GPZ500s last Autumn to tinker with. Best insurance quote was £132 TPFandT, so quite pleased. Other quotes around £150. Mind you I'm over 40!
Thought I'd run the GPZ for a year or two to get some NCD then move on to summat else.
Did my test on a 600 Bandit, the GPZ is a lot tamer!

Pete

Tiggs

no "get a 400, they're really fun" post yet? some people are a bit slow!

Tiggs

Sbradley

Hi Kryten,

No disrespect intended, but don't find yourself lulled into the "it's only a 600" thing. A GSXR or CBR will easily be capable of over 150mph with a 0-60 of around 3.5 sec, even if you're very lardy.

A Fazer 600 isn't much slower, but is far more rider friendly in that you don't *have* to cane the **** off it to get anywhere. Of course, I'm told you *can* ride a GSXR slowly as well. Personally I don't believe it. I know *I* can't

400s are a whole heap of fun, but they are also much harder work than a larger bike. Some people like that, some don't.

The other plus of getting something like a Fazer is that you can still get a real shuffle on when you want to but keep all the practicality of what's basically a commuter tool.

Alternatives? How about the BWW F650? Looks funny but handles like a dream and goes OK. SV650 Suzuki? My favourite in this class, especially the S version in yellow. The Honda Hornet is good but pricy and not as friendly as it might be. Someone else has mentioned the GPz500 which is a fine bike. The ER-5 is OK as well but a bit fragile.

Whatever it is, enjoy it!

Bakerman

If you are new to motorcycling DO NOT get a GSXR600 - you will learn nothing from it and possibly harm yourself in the process.

A Fazer is a cracking bike and very easy to ride and learn how to ride - passing your test is only the 1st step - now you must learn how to ride a bike safely/quickly. A Fazer 600 is still a very quick machine and will destroy almost any car on the road so be under no illusions.

I would strongly suggest going down the commuter route for a while to learn how to ride quickly, stop quickly, take avoiding action, counter steering
eg, GS500, GPz500, ER-7

Trust me, 50bhp is fast enough when you start riding - learn how to use the bike fully and when you have mastered it then buy something quick - just think how many people you see on R*, GXR*,ZX* who can't ride quickly other than in a straight line.

MattW

Try a Suzuki SV650S. There is an optional lower fairing which can be fitted DIY.

I had one for a year after passing my test couple of years back. Prefered it to the Fazer because:
V Twin grunt and noise
Riding position sportier
Looks and style
Question marks over Fazer build quality.

Seriously fun machine.

Elvis Presley

Well. Heres the thread you've all been waiting for.

Buy a VFR400R! Fantastic bike. Loadsa fun. Cheap insurance, blah blah blah.

100% reliable also.

Depends what you want out of a bike. If you want to race around and get your knee down this is the bike. (Yahama equivalent is cool but not as reliable).

If you're more after a bike to cruise around lazily on and be comfortable, then buy an armchair instead and put it in your front garden.

dharbige

I went for the Fazer 600 last September when I passed my test, and I love it. I ridden it every weekday since to and from the train station (sun, rain, sleet, snow whatever) and it has always been very enjoyable.
It's capable of much greater speed than my limited riding ability can currently cope with, as I wanted something that would keep my interest for a couple of years.
I've got a huge top-box on the back so I can leave my helmet and gloves at the station, and it looks like it "fits" on the bike, but the bike also looks pretty cool with the top-box off. (All in my opinion, of course).

And I have no reason to question it's build quality...

Tiggs

well i had a zzr 600 after my test (fastest 600 at the time) to bloody slow.

kryten

The problem I have with insurance on anything bigger/sportier is:
a) new rider
b) 'Any claims, sir?' - er, well I rolled the scoob at dono.....

Looking likely to be a Fazer, I think. Test is booked for a week Friday so I'll go and test ride a couple of bikes after that, just to make sure.

Also, how much should I spend on leathers, helmet, boots etc. I know you get what you pay for, but what price point is sensible?

I have a Hein Gericke catalog and you can spend anywhere between 50 and 500 quid on a helmet alone.....

Does anyone (contractors, probably) have a 'company bike'? Trying to do the sums to see if its worthwhile.....

Sbradley

Kryten,

Hein Gericke Pro-Sport leathers look pants but are very good, especially with the latest generation of armour in them. Comfy, too. Don't let the light weight put you off - I bounced off the armco at the Nurburgring at something over 80mph and was able to ride the bike home.

Helmets are easy. Buy the best you can afford and make sure you try it on first. Bell Helmets used to have a slogan - "If you have a ten dollar head, buy a ten dollar helmet..."

SB

father_jack

Kryten - well worth doing the company bike thing. Last time I looked at this was a year ago, so hopefully things haven't changed.

It's not treated as a company car, but as a comapny asset e.g. a JCB. You can claim the vat back, tyres, petrol, protective clothing etc.
Thinking of upgrading to a 996 and full-on Dainese leathers now are we?

kryten

Well, I passed

Got a set of Frank Thomas two piece leathers off a mate.

Just waiting to see if Yamaha extend their R1 insurance offer to other bikes. If they do then I'll probably get a Thundercat. If not a Fazer.

Hoppy

Hi Kryten! You don't give up, do you Good on yer!

I think Bakerman's advice is good. You're new to biking and bikes are just unbeliveably fecking fast! I've been riding 30 years and modern sports bikes still scare me.

Get something sensible. Come the autumn, if you're then thinking 'I want something quicker' that will be the right result. Meanwhile, take it steady. If you thought that rolling at Donon hurt, try falling off a bike - it's not much fun at all. Ever.

If I were you, I'd get a steady bike and some mega fast gear. Top helmet, best quality/safest suit/leathers and good boots and gloves. Then look forward to 2003 - it'll be bliss

This week's MCN has some useful stuff about insurance.

Good luck. Hope to see you soon

Richard.

neilb

passed my test and rode a gpz500 for six months, then bought a zx6.

If you buy a mad bike first off you will probably hurt yourself

AndyMc

Hi Kryton

I also passed my bike test a couple of days ago (only 1 minor fault),and haven't stopped smiling since. My first bike is a ZXR750 which was intimidating for the first couple of days, mainly at low speed while I got used to its weight. I took my test on a 500 which was much easier to manage at parking speeds.
Now I've had a couple of days practice I'm feeling much better and am starting to use the performance. At the moment 70 mph feels like about 150 mph in the car so I'm taking it one step at a time, I've got a lot to learn.

Something else thats surprising is that I'm not getting carried away at all,in fact quite the opposite,maybe its because of my age (29) or maybe because I can't imagine falling off the thing!.( I got blown off by a Micra on a wet round about yesterday and I don't care LOL)

Just remember it only goes as fast as you let it

And now a question for experienced bikers,when you're cornering how do you know when you're nearing the limit of adhesion?. At the moment I'm leaving a wide margine of error just in case

Oh and back to the topic of this thread the insurance is £290 TPF&T which I thought was very good for a bike with as much power as a Nova GSI and a rider with 0 days experience.

Have fun and be carefull

Andy

Tiggs

wheres the limit? very good question! probably bloody miles from where you are at the moment have someone follow you round a corner with a camcorder- you feel like you've got it right on its ear but its only tipped just off centre!

the only way to find the limit is to find the limit! get on a track day- once the front or rear slide a bit thats the edge! in theory you should get away with a little wiggle on a track without doing yourself a mischeif. (not big oppo lock stuff though or you will get lobbed off!)

just keep going faster and faster until your comfy (most sports bikes with good rubber will lean over far more than most riders!) my R1 had rearsets on the highest setting and i still ran out off room to fit my toe between the bike and the track but it hardly ever felt like it was going to slide.

the same works on the road BUT (and this is why i never ride on roads) if you hit gravel, oil, water, leaves, lines, manholes, *** packet, rat, rabbit, petrol, etc it wont matter if youre at 10 degrees or 180- you will probably fall off if your shiffting.

so make off that what you will! basically the bike is unlikley to let go if all is good (u, the bike, tyres, surface) but chuck in an oddity and it can go pearshaped.

Tiggs

edit- i remeber a Perf. Bike isue where a writter (ronnie scott possibly) tried to do ever decreasing circles on various bikes to find the limit- with good grippy surface he found it very hard to drop the bike- the idea was for him to ride till it fell over (mad!) but ever time the rear slide he just caught it again and carried on- and he was going RIGHT over to get it to slide in the first place!

ps- if you highside into a bus que dont blame me!

[Edited by Tiggs - 4/23/2002 12:53:59 AM]

neilb

for insurance try wicked quotes in st albans.
i shopped around and they were cheapest by a mile.

Hoppy

Andy, hi mate! How do you find the limit? Every biker's nightmare I think Tiggs has put it very well and on a smooth dry, familar road (ie track) you can do some amazing things. But a damp patch, mud, diesel, crisp packet etc can all put you on your ear. That's why bikers are forever looking up at the clouds, and examining every inch of tramac ahead for a man-hole cover, mastic stuff around road repairs, a patch of gravel etc etc.

I only ever find the limit on the road by mistake, usually with a little wiggle. But that's almost always when hitting a damp patch unexpectedly, or clipping a while line that warning is enough to slow me down big time! Take care.

One thing that always catches me out when I get on a bike now is that they don't slow down going around corners. In a car, if you go in too hot it'll scrub off speed very quickly and everything's fine. On a bike, once you're off the brakes it hardly slows down at all and a tightening radius can really give you the *****. Breathe deep and lean it over further, and you'll prolly be fine - and feel pretty chuffed The alternative is to sit up and hit the brakes which is a guaranteed visit to the hedge.

I would seriously urge you to try a track day where you can explore the limits in relative safety. I think you'll be amazed and it will give you a good yeadstick to stay within the limit when on the road and out of trouble.

Best regards,

Richard.

Tiggs

Tiggs Tip 103: If you go into a corner to fast (and sitting it up will put you in a hedge/on coming cars) then just slam it on its side and 99% of the time you will get round feeling like Rossi! if you do drop it then its no worse than sitting up in the first place!

Tiggs

ps- slam it on its side is not in the sensible book of bike skills so expect some more girly options from others

Jolly Green Monster 2

It is difficult to describe finding the limit... you just react to it.. the back steps slightly and I instantly grab the clutch and it comes back in... and shift my weight etc... same principle as on a push bike really...

I rode for a couple of year getting my bike right over to the edge of the tyres and meeting the limit on many occasions.. then I read an article on hanging off the bike and tried it.. one **** check off the seat edge and knee out.. wonderful... lowers your centre of gravity and makes the bike so stable.. you don't have to lean as far for the same speed corner... allowing you to add more lean when a corner tightens and with your weight off the side you can drop it over further quicker... also find that rather than riding with my feet in the middle of the footpeg.. if I put the ***** of my feet on the pegs the bike is far more manouvable with the weight higher...

Pretty obvious stuff but it took me ages to pick it up as I was comfortable and used to riding in a certain way.

Helps you CORNER better!!

JGM

[Edited by Jolly Green Monster 2 - 4/23/2002 4:45:46 PM]

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Just seen the thread and had to comment.

Bakerman - got to disagree with you. After passing my test I bought a GSXR600 (which is currently for sale) as a first bike. As it was new when i bought it i had to run in it and that gave me the opportunity to get used to it.

Any bike of a reasonable size will give most car drivers a scare about how fast they are when they first ride one but my Gixer was a peach. Combine light weight with extremely good handling and a riding position that makes changing direction easy and natural and you have a peach of a bike for even a novice to ride. Light controls, and in my case, 100% reliability only further add to the bike.

I personally wouldn't go the 400 route. I know they are fast but you'll soon become accustomed to the speed and be after something quicker. Save yourself the hassle and get a 600 straight off.

DP.

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

B2Z - i hear what you're saying but where in my post does it say that i'm critising 400s for being to small or that they handle badly? - nowhere! It's just from experience of friends who've owned 400's that they want more power fairly quickly so rather than go through the hassle of buying one bike then having to sell it and buy another when you can get a bike straight all present and future requirments just makes more sense to me.

One of my fav bikes of all time is the RVF400 NC35, sex on two wheel in my opinion (and the engine sound through race pipes made my spine tingle), but I never wanted another bike after my Gixer. 28k in 3 years travelling all over Europe to race meets just confirmed that it was the perfect bike for me.

And as for pissing bigger bikes off with the ability to easily keep up on most roads and leave going down twisties always brought a big grin to my face!

DP.

AndyMc

Cheers for the tips guys

I got my mate to follow me in the car today and he confirmed that I'm only leaning to about 25-30 degrees. I must be miles away from the limit even though it feels like I'm being a hero .

I also had a go of my mates ZZR600 which feels much happier to go around corners than my ZXR.It seems to tip over with hardly any pressure on the bars,by comparision mine feels like it wants to go in a straight line and nothing else.

Does anybody know what might be making it feel like this,and is there any thing I can do to improve it? eg adjust the suspension or some thing!

cheers

Andy(just call me Foggy)Mc

Tiggs

i had a zzr6oo too- used to grind the pegs easy!

there are loads of things that will make the bike tip in easier but hard to say without seeing it. however a ZX6 should turn fine- its hardly a tourer!

this is how i learnt:

find a corner thats out of the way and not to fast 30mph ish- i used suttons business park in reading about 10 years ago

keep riding it at the same speed but a bit quicker each time, that way every thing about your enviroment will stay the same (unless it rains!)

the two tips to rember are 1. hang off- to start with you may look a tit with your butt right out the seat (inside thigh on the seat) but it will help you find the ground with your knee. once you know where the ground is you can work on leaning off less and leaning the bike more. this is good for a track cause you can be mid corner and need more lean so, although your knee is down already, you just pull the bike down nearer the floor.

2. counter steer- push on the right bar to turn left etc.

once you get the knee down every time you are sorted and it gets easier every time thereafter (it took me about 3568 laps of the business park before i got mine down!)

remeber that as long as you are riding the same corner and its clear of rubbish the bike will be able to let you get your knee down with ease- you are the only thing holding it back!

it doesnt matter whether your doing 30mph round the business park or 130mph through craner curvers while grinding your toes off- just rember the bike is fine unless your name really is foggy!

Tiggs

ps- back on the roads if you hit doggy surface you'll fall off- bit pointless telling you cause you cant avoid it really unless you ride like a girl. either ride on roads and accept that or dont.


also- suspension- as long as you are standard dont bother with adjusting it now. you can get to caught up in set up when all you need to do is practice. peload and rebound wont make you a GP contender- leave them alone (unless you are super fat!)

[Edited by Tiggs - 4/23/2002 11:11:30 PM]

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

You could try dropping the forks throught the yokes or lift the rear ride height. That'll speed up the steering and allow you to turn quicker (but the front end will be more unstable as a result so a steering damper might be a good idea). As for suspension, I'd speak to an expert (IMHO) as screwing up the settings can have a disastrous result on handling.

Whenever I rode my old man's VFR800 I always thought that got onto it's side much quicker than my GSXR but it could have been due to my familiarity with my own bike (and knackered knee sliders meant that it was getting over far enough )

DP.

Tiggs

the above idea will work for speeding up the steering (also gets the back of the ground when hard on the brakes!) but DO NOT MISS the damper comment- you start dropping forks and raising backends and you could have a nasty slapper.

Tiggs

ps- on my R1 i dropped the forks, lower the clip ons, jacked up the back on an ohlins shock (also ran ohlins on the front), used slicks, rearsets, lightweight wheels and bent the frame in a jig to alter the head angle (yes, really!) it went very nice but there would always be some old racer on a piece of crap that would destroy me in the corners on shagged tyres.

point being- a quick rider is quicker than a quick bike- this aint cars where you just floor it and sit tight