UK was "junior partner" in WW2 against Germany in 1940
22 July 2010, 01:44 PM
#1
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UK was "junior partner" in WW2 against Germany in 1940
How to totally disrespect the men who lost their lives in 1940 (before the Americans joined us!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10719739
Originally Posted by David Cameron
"We were the junior partner in 1940 when we were fighting the *****."
22 July 2010, 01:50 PM
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To be fair to DC, I htink it's a slip over timelines more than diminishing their loss.
Of course, prior to December 1941, the US were not in the war, but in the overall context of the effort to defeat Germany, the UK was a junior partner.
Even that is not disrespectful to the people who lost their lives, anymore than admitting that Poles who lost their lives were part of a much smaller effort than us, for example.
Geezer
Of course, prior to December 1941, the US were not in the war, but in the overall context of the effort to defeat Germany, the UK was a junior partner.
Even that is not disrespectful to the people who lost their lives, anymore than admitting that Poles who lost their lives were part of a much smaller effort than us, for example.
Geezer
Last edited by Geezer; 22 July 2010 at 01:52 PM.
22 July 2010, 02:11 PM
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Although the UK played a major part in WWII, basically it was won by the Americans in the Pacific and the Russians in Europe (or you could argue that it was lost by the Germans and Japanese for the strategically bad decisions they made).
If Hitler had not decided to turn towards the Soviet Union, our position would have been untenable and we would have had to make peace or the Germans simply would have defeated us (or possinly only survived with the help of yes, you guessed it, the US).
Geezer
22 July 2010, 02:41 PM
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Does it really matter? 
The fact is that the USA had statistically more manpower and hardware in WW2 than we did. Hardly suprising when there's 5x more of them to start with. That fact doesn't diminish any other country's sacrifice in the War.
It's not as if he called some old woman he'd just met on camera a "bigot" on his microphone now is it?
The fact is that the USA had statistically more manpower and hardware in WW2 than we did. Hardly suprising when there's 5x more of them to start with. That fact doesn't diminish any other country's sacrifice in the War.
It's not as if he called some old woman he'd just met on camera a "bigot" on his microphone now is it?
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22 July 2010, 02:51 PM
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22 July 2010, 02:54 PM
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22 July 2010, 03:00 PM
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16 million US servicemen in WWII
5.9 million British..
that does make us a junior partner by anyone's definition
5.9 million British..
that does make us a junior partner by anyone's definition
Last edited by scooby L; 22 July 2010 at 03:04 PM. Reason: to correct the UK figure
22 July 2010, 03:04 PM
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Doesn't matter whether we were or were not junior partners.
It just seems he's willing to carry on the recent tradition of cow-towing to the Americans. Best not say anything to upset them.
It just seems he's willing to carry on the recent tradition of cow-towing to the Americans. Best not say anything to upset them.
22 July 2010, 03:09 PM
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And you'd rather they publicly disagreed on world TV?
Giving the terrorists more fuel to fight their holy war on the West?..
It's called keeping your actual agenda's behind closed doors...while portraying a strong union.
Giving the terrorists more fuel to fight their holy war on the West?..
It's called keeping your actual agenda's behind closed doors...while portraying a strong union.
22 July 2010, 04:58 PM
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then we had Malta, Gibraltar, both of which we held through WW2.Your nearly as bad as DC
But DC should get his facts right
and I wouldnt call us the junior partner in WW2, it took us 50+ years to pay the yanks back for all that equipment they sent us....Tony
22 July 2010, 05:30 PM
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Well, as there were no Allied forces fighting in Europe until June 1944, that's not really a great deal
Although the UK played a major part in WWII, basically it was won by the Americans in the Pacific and the Russians in Europe (or you could argue that it was lost by the Germans and Japanese for the strategically bad decisions they made).
If Hitler had not decided to turn towards the Soviet Union, our position would have been untenable and we would have had to make peace or the Germans simply would have defeated us (or possinly only survived with the help of yes, you guessed it, the US).
Geezer
Although the UK played a major part in WWII, basically it was won by the Americans in the Pacific and the Russians in Europe (or you could argue that it was lost by the Germans and Japanese for the strategically bad decisions they made).
If Hitler had not decided to turn towards the Soviet Union, our position would have been untenable and we would have had to make peace or the Germans simply would have defeated us (or possinly only survived with the help of yes, you guessed it, the US).
Geezer
There were plenty of politician who wanted us to surrender after the fall of France - they were wrong. Certainly the US was the big player, but we still made up one third of the troops in France in 1944. One other point, everyone always bangs on about the US contribtion, but the Russians had smashed the backbone of the Bundeswehr in their victories at Stanlingrad and Kursk well before D Day. The Americans would have liked to have launched D Day in 1943but were persuaded not to by the British - interesting to think whether it would have been successful at that point.
Anyway, steps off high horse.
Andy TJ
h, yes - and Cameron - what an eejit!
22 July 2010, 05:37 PM
#21
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Poor choice of words by DC but factually correct. However, lets not let silly things like facts get in the way of sensationalist journalisim.
22 July 2010, 05:40 PM
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They had been involved in a long war (ie invasion) against China. They were involved in all sorts of atrocities, such as Nanking where they murdered some 300,000 civilians (having competetions on who could behead the most people in ad ay, etc). The USA and the UK introduced a rather effective oil imbargo - Japan not having oil of it's own. They were left the choice of either pulling out of China or attacking the West. Of course the vicious wee buggers did pretty well at first but never had a chance once the US "geared up" - they had thought that the Americans simply wouldn't have the stomach to fight if they were given a bloody nose - woops!
22 July 2010, 07:16 PM
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22 July 2010, 08:17 PM
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To those who correctly pointed out that Italy is in Europe, my apologies, of course, very remiss of me 
Still doesn't get away from the fact that we were the junior partner, probably even in 1940. The UK would have starved and been unable to fuel it's Spitfires had it not been for US support (even though our Merchant ships were the ones sinking, they still had US goods on board).
I really have no time for the US, so it's not as if I am some fan, just a realist!
Geezer
Still doesn't get away from the fact that we were the junior partner, probably even in 1940. The UK would have starved and been unable to fuel it's Spitfires had it not been for US support (even though our Merchant ships were the ones sinking, they still had US goods on board).
I really have no time for the US, so it's not as if I am some fan, just a realist!
Geezer
22 July 2010, 08:37 PM
#27
They had been involved in a long war (ie invasion) against China. They were involved in all sorts of atrocities, such as Nanking where they murdered some 300,000 civilians (having competetions on who could behead the most people in ad ay, etc). The USA and the UK introduced a rather effective oil imbargo - Japan not having oil of it's own. They were left the choice of either pulling out of China or attacking the West. Of course the vicious wee buggers did pretty well at first but never had a chance once the US "geared up" - they had thought that the Americans simply wouldn't have the stomach to fight if they were given a bloody nose - woops!
22 July 2010, 08:44 PM
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They also hoped to catch nearly all the Pacific US aircraft carriers in PH at the time as well though and seriously reduce the US ability to fight in the region. Unfortunately for them, the majority had left by the time they attacked. The film Tora! Tora! Tora! is pretty good and explains that aspect.
Forgot to say, they were of course empire building, happy to take the British, American & Dutch assets in the "name of the Asian people". However, those same Asian people found them to be far more malicious imperialists that their Western predecessors.
22 July 2010, 10:07 PM
#30
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Shipyards turned out tonnage so fast that by the autumn of 1943 all Allied shipping sunk since 1939 had been replaced.
but men (and Tanks - just) -- yes by a massive margin, the US lost men in the hundreds of thousands, the soviets in the millions
in context, during the first day of the Somme the british army suffered 60,000 casualties (20,000 dead)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 July 2010 at 10:14 PM.