QUICKSCOOB

Met my wifes friends son today.He's just come back from 6 months in Afghanistan.I shook his hand and told him i was pleased to meet him and to take care when he goes back next year.I would hope the Scooby community support our lads.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

In my experience the Scooby community have nothing but support for our lads. Some will question the politicians who sent them there, and others will point out that we are fighting a losing battle....but our boys...well we support then

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

respect to them all,there doing this country proud

QUICKSCOOB

Cheers friend.He told me he believes in the job he is doing and i told him i do not want to see his face on the news.He was interested in my Scoob,but i said i would help him find one of his own.

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

not aproblem fella id help him also if i had the chance

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I met a chap the other day who is going to back to Afghanistan. Told me that they were desperate for people on the group, and that even though he was a sniper he had been assigned to foot patrol.

I cannot see that we are actually going to achieve what we want to do out there. Just look at Iraq, the democratic government we have installed there is a shambles

QUICKSCOOB

I 100% do not agree with them being out there,but i think it helps when they know we support them.

pslewis

My daughters boyfriend was out there last year ..... they have no say whether they go or not - they do as they are told, that's what they are trained to do.

I have never seen anything against the lads on the front line on SN.

Pink_Floyd

I was 10 years in the forces, I grew to hate it. The war is a joke......

However I will support those lads out there to the hilt. They didn't decide to start the war, but they are doing one hell of a job fighting it!

It's a shame some of the public spout bile at troops out in uniform in public. They should reserve that for the crooked politicians and buy OUR troops a pint!

dpb

God help him

krisando

iTrader: (2)

Ive now been in the army 11 years, and wouldnt change it for the world, did Iraq and Afghanistan, it was f**kin hard, but now got mates from all over the world, and been to some mental places.

Its good to see the folk on SN supporting all the troops, much appreciated!

SirFozzalot

They've got my full support, such a tough job they do for not a lot of reward, maximum respect to all the armed forces!

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

When I was out in Afghanistan last year I received no end of support from SN. I have to assume that either there was no-one who didn't support the fact that I was out there doing my job, or they had the manners to keep their opinions to themself.

I know people don't agree with what we are doing out there, but back in 2002 when I first went out girls couldn't go to school. Last year I was driving through Kabul at 3 in the afternoon and boy and girls were walking home from school in their uniforms no different to the way my kids do here in the UK. It may be a slow and painful process, but the 313 servicemen and women that we have lost have made a difference. Remember we have been there for 8-years, it has only been big news for the last 2-3 and that is the differences that the press are spinning.

I can't remember the name of the film, but someone will - all I will say is that I have seen kites flying in both Kabul and Lashkar Gah

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

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bigsinky

and the coalition one we have in the UK isn't?

53

iTrader: (41)

Great post Jon

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Good post.
Maybe it's not the best fight we've been in, but in it we are so let's give our boys 100% support.

Marquis of Carrabas

Ssh! You're supposed accept that as part of our wonderful democratic process.

Forester sti

Well said man!
Fair play to you guys! keep up the good work!

Dan

Leslie

I would not expect there to be anyone who would not support you for what you are all doing out there. You are all doing your duty as you are expected to do as I know well enough.

There are a lot however who don't think that you should be out there because of the dreadful danger you are in and who cannot accept that the risk to all those young peoples' lives and the losses which we have already had is worthwhile.

Many cannot see a good enough reason for you to be put in such a position even though we all respect you for what you have achieved out there so far.

Our troops have been allocated the most dangerous part of that country with no help from the rest of the "European Allies" At least it looks as though our troops will be largely replaced by the US Army which has more backing and better equipment. I think this was an unfair deployment in the first place.

I personally would wish to see our troops pulled out completely as soon as possible and not kept out there for political purposes.

Les

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Les

I know your background, so I will not insult you, but I will use you comment to allow me to elaborate on the problems that we face in this war. I will not go into detail about what I do other than to say my day job involves high level military planning. In the last 10 years, if I have not been on or supporting operations in Iraq or Afghanistan, I have been intimately involved in the policing of UK Airspace to prevent a 9/11 type scenario.

We are in a coalition of 41 nations. Of those 41 about half a dozen are making a significant contribution. Because of the losses and dangers the Canadians, the Dutch and some others are reducing their commitment. UK, USA, Germany and France are the most significant contributors although I have been working on everything but Afghan since I came home at Christmas so my knowledge may be a little rusty. The US are not much better equipped than we are, they just have safety in numbers, but they are suffering significantly more losses than any other nation in the conflict. I don't remember a week going by were we did not repatriate a US soldier.

Whilst I agree that it would be nice to bring all of the troops home, we are as much involved in the making of this problem, both recently since we deposed the Taliban in 2002, and previously with our support during the Afghan-Soviet war in the 70s. There is a moral component, as unpalatable as it may be, that says we should resolve this problem and do our best. Playing devils advocate, you could argue that by doing what we are doing Britain is actually morally correct and can look down its nose at some of the other token players in this conflict.

If people must compare this with Iraq, the mistake we often make is to try and impose western laws, ethics and values on other nations. This looks good for the press and the general, often poorly educated, public. Iraq, and more so Afghanistan, have their own values and ethics. Afghan culture is based around tribal groups, and whilst we may consider election unfair by our values, the process by their values is acceptable. Whatever we put in place must be for them and not to suit the US or Western agenda. This is not an easy problem (in fact based upon my recent MSc work this is a wicked problem) and there is no perfect answer. When we withdraw coalition troops the country will be as good as it can be, but there will still be problems (a la Iraq). Unfortunately, the international community, spun up by the mass media, finds that a difficult concept to swallow.

I can talk for hours on this, and there is no right or wrong answer. I don't want to go back, but inevitably will unless something bigger happens.

Jon

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

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Leslie

Thanks for that JonMc, very interesting to see things from your side.

I was saying what I did from the point of view of the general public who don't have access to the points you made. As ever there is more than meets the eye.

I agree with the points you make about not trying to impress a western style of government, but if we eventually do all hand over to the Afghani government and leave, what do you think will happen. Can you see any significant resistence to the Taliban? To maintain the status quo there would have to be an occupation force for the foreseeable future. I can't see the chance of coming to a workable agreement with the Taliban either. Neither do I believe that the Taliban will ever be suppressed successfully.

We only have to look back historically to see the problems.

What kind of support did we provide during the Soviet Afghan war? Thats a new one on me.

As I said before, is the loss of our young people worth what may or may not be achieved?

Les

The Zohan

+1

krisando

iTrader: (2)

Jon,

Completely agree mate, unless youve been there like us, you dont know the full details of the conflict, and all the other things that happens day to day.

Glad to see so many have the respect and belief in their forces.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Les

I'll answer each bit in turn.

This is the wicked problem, there is no answer, let alone a simple answer. There must be a compromise somewhere along the line but the balance is what do we compromise. How well can a tribal nation govern itself nationally when the balance of power depends on which warlord is 'top-dog' at the time. Karzai is as corrupt as the rest of them, but to and Afghan that is an acceptable way of life.

The Taliban could very easily win this war by analysing the tactics that the west have employed in so many wars since WWII. Looking at what we want to leave in place to agree a withdrawal the Taliban could manufacture that status and the UN would leave all except for a token presence.

We can analyse and learn from history, but we continue to make the same mistake and try and teach the next war the same as the last. We tried Northern Ireland tactics in Iraq, we tried Iraq tactics in Afghanistan - we need to be smarter and I believe we are getting there now in Afghanistan. I was a hard and bloody lesson but we should gain a degree of respite once we hand Sangin over to the US.

As for the Afghan-Soviet war, we, along with the US, provided the Mujahideen with equipment and training. Not sure of the exact motive, but my analysis is that NATO, then fighting the Cold War (which you know too well), saw this war as a Soviet threat, whether it be the expansion of the USSR, the money that could be made from the Opium or the addition of the ruthless Afghan fighters to the ranks of the Red Army, but in assisting NATO could be assured that the perceived Soviet walkover wouldn't happen. When they arrived expecting to take on a nation of ill-disciplined, untrained poorly equipped farmers they encountered a nation of well-trained soldiers equipped specifically to deal with the Soviet arsenal.

Is it worth it? Ask the parents, widows or orphans of any of the 313, or the families of those who have been maimed and the majority will no doubt think not - some will but they will be the minority. I think that most of them would like to ensure that their loss and pain was not in vain so I believe that they support us working to a successful conclusion in this war, but not at the expense of someone else's family.

gallois

My complete support goes to all the men and women putting their lives on the line daily. (btw the film is 'the kite runner', a good film too)

QUICKSCOOB

My original post was just simply saying i had met a young soldier.I don't know anyone in the armed forces,so i just let him know it was an honour to meet someone who serves his country.

Pink_Floyd

Sadly the environment in which our troops are operating is harsh and foreign to them. We are engaged in asymmetric warfare against an enemy who are not fighting for what is generally perceived to morally or legally wrong, rather they are fighting for an ideology that we can never change.

We only need to cast our minds back to Vietnam, is it really that different? No it's not. How will this end? In tears I bet.

Leslie

Well I don't see any real cause for disagreement since you have basically enlarged on what I was inferring in my posts. If the Soviets had gained control of Afghanistan then that would of course been a signficant threat during the Cold War. I did not realise there was positive support being given but the Soviets certainly got the same nasty shock as far as their abilities are concerned.

With your last paragraph, there is no question that we all support our forces whether they feel we should be in that country or not. those are two separate considerations. I am sure that the fact that so many of our young soldiers have been killed is the major factor with respect to whether they think we should be out there at all putting them into such a dangerous situation. The reasons given by the authorities for our presence are not necessarily persuasive enough bearing in mind the fatalities.

I would have thought that the families of those who have been killed would prefer that the conflict was ended to prevent any more soldiers from being killed also rather than continue as we are now. The lack of any really apparent chance to beat the Taliban will be a signifant factor in most peoples' minds. I somehow dont think that those families would consider the loss of their own relatives' lives a good enough reason to put the present soldiers' lives in further danger.

Les

Les