Bye bye BA?
21 March 2010, 12:09 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bye bye BA?
So it has actually come to a strike. Incredibly damaging for a company struggling to survive and who just made a £350 million loss in 9 months.
Am I missing something as from what I can glean the strike seems to be about implementing fewer cabin attendants on long haul flights and also a pay freeze.
I must be missing something as I cant see that having no job is better than than those survival driven cutbacks? Are management OK with saving several days striker salaries or something? Just doesn't add up to me.
Also reality is that my next flight booked will not be a BA one in case they screw up my holidays (as just happened to a friend going on a long anticipated trip to Ecuador).
D
Am I missing something as from what I can glean the strike seems to be about implementing fewer cabin attendants on long haul flights and also a pay freeze.
I must be missing something as I cant see that having no job is better than than those survival driven cutbacks? Are management OK with saving several days striker salaries or something? Just doesn't add up to me.
Also reality is that my next flight booked will not be a BA one in case they screw up my holidays (as just happened to a friend going on a long anticipated trip to Ecuador).
D
21 March 2010, 12:12 PM
#2
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's about uninformed idiots thinking that they can force BA management to dance to their tune - trolley pushers make poor business strategists. The sooner ***** Walsh breaks Unite the better for everyone.
21 March 2010, 12:25 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
i think it is the end of BA, they have no money to give in to the demands and the unions are so set on the pound sign they will keep striking untill BA goes under. unions should be banned if there going to act like this
Trending Topics
21 March 2010, 12:53 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
Posts: 14,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA have quite a lot of cash reserves so would survive in the short term. But for the long term they clearly have to lower their operating costs.
Perhaps Ryanair will take them over........
dl
Perhaps Ryanair will take them over........
dl
21 March 2010, 12:54 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't believe the stupidity of the union. What BA is asking for is hardly unacceptable in the current economic climate. In fact, Unite's only coherent gripe seems to be that they weren't consulted. Well boo-hoo.
In fact, given how employee-centric employment laws, the prevalence of H&S and job mobility in this country, I don't even see the need for unions anymore. The working classes are no longer working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week in a dangerous mill that's the only employer.
In fact, given how employee-centric employment laws, the prevalence of H&S and job mobility in this country, I don't even see the need for unions anymore. The working classes are no longer working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week in a dangerous mill that's the only employer.
21 March 2010, 12:56 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
looks like it is set to go the same way as British Leyland then. Hopefully any staff kept on will get far better working conditions from the new Chinese owners that will pick off the best bits...
Be good to get an employee's perspective here.
D
21 March 2010, 12:59 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like we have got back the bad old days when the unions seemed to be doing their best to kill off Uk industry. Either that or the unions are trying to show us all how powerful they are with no regard for the consequences.
Quite a ridiculous attitude and the BA workers may suddenly find themselves on the dole and our National airline down the tubes!
Les
Quite a ridiculous attitude and the BA workers may suddenly find themselves on the dole and our National airline down the tubes!
Les
21 March 2010, 01:07 PM
#13
Scooby Senior
Start training the older generation now, BA's cabin crew are too young for my liking. No need for the false glamour these days, it doesn't wash.
I flew Continental the other day where the cabin staff all seem over 50, service was top notch. Current BA whippersnappers can try B&Q shifts for size.
I flew Continental the other day where the cabin staff all seem over 50, service was top notch. Current BA whippersnappers can try B&Q shifts for size.
21 March 2010, 01:16 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find your comments interesting Jack.
I fly with BA (indeed I flew out to India with them on Friday and fly back on Thursday).
In my experience I find the cabin crew older then the UK norm. I do accept that some American airlines do have quite an ageing workforce but for the UK BA seem to have an older demographic.
This is part of the problem though - the average time in service of the workforce means that they have pretty good benefits and get paid massively more (2 times or even more) than equivalents at other local airlines (e.g. Virgin Atlantic). This is what BA are trying to break and what the union is trying desperately to hold on to.
I fly with BA (indeed I flew out to India with them on Friday and fly back on Thursday).
In my experience I find the cabin crew older then the UK norm. I do accept that some American airlines do have quite an ageing workforce but for the UK BA seem to have an older demographic.
This is part of the problem though - the average time in service of the workforce means that they have pretty good benefits and get paid massively more (2 times or even more) than equivalents at other local airlines (e.g. Virgin Atlantic). This is what BA are trying to break and what the union is trying desperately to hold on to.
21 March 2010, 01:40 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i wouldnt have gone on strike if i was them.
i work in the airfreight industry, i can tell you its been iffy sice sept 11th, everything that can be done to stop them striking should have been done.
i work in the airfreight industry, i can tell you its been iffy sice sept 11th, everything that can be done to stop them striking should have been done.
21 March 2010, 03:28 PM
#18
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I understand, BA wanted to reduce the crew complement by one on all flights (long haul going from 15 to 14), which would force the top cabin crew member (the CSD) to 'push a trolley'. No pay cuts, everything through natural wastage. The Union countered by offering that everyone (even the 'new contract' and Gatwick based staff) would prefer a pay cut. I'm presuming the Union reps are mostly CSD's then...
I went out with a BA hostie for a couple of years and looking at her take home reckon she was on about £30-32k. She wasn't senior and was on the lower paid 'new contract'. Quite simply, when the competition are paying so much less, it's an unsustainable business model.
I think Mr Walsh is prepared to see it through. He appears to have a lot of internal support from just abut all other departments and the share price has rocketed in the last couple of weeks, suggesting the city already know who'll be the winner. Walsh has to go all the way to Baghdad with it. He can't stop, only to have the problems resurface in 6 months or a year or two years time. He needs to have Tony Woodleys head on a pike outside the head office :-)
I went out with a BA hostie for a couple of years and looking at her take home reckon she was on about £30-32k. She wasn't senior and was on the lower paid 'new contract'. Quite simply, when the competition are paying so much less, it's an unsustainable business model.
I think Mr Walsh is prepared to see it through. He appears to have a lot of internal support from just abut all other departments and the share price has rocketed in the last couple of weeks, suggesting the city already know who'll be the winner. Walsh has to go all the way to Baghdad with it. He can't stop, only to have the problems resurface in 6 months or a year or two years time. He needs to have Tony Woodleys head on a pike outside the head office :-)
+1 for WW sticking it to Unite, Labour and BASSA
21 March 2010, 03:41 PM
#19
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A pilot mate of mine was telling me there was a thread on the BASSA forum suggesting something along the lines of all the cabin crew putting in £100 each (making £1.2m), which would be enough of a commitment to attract some serious backers, enabling them to take over the company...
The mind boggles!
The mind boggles!
....... their main TU reps live in the States and one of them has been on the sick for a year pocketing 50K pa (nice work if you can get it).Hopefully they'll (BASSA) be first up against the wall
21 March 2010, 05:50 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I understand, BA wanted to reduce the crew complement by one on all flights (long haul going from 15 to 14), which would force the top cabin crew member (the CSD) to 'push a trolley'. No pay cuts, everything through natural wastage. The Union countered by offering that everyone (even the 'new contract' and Gatwick based staff) would prefer a pay cut. I'm presuming the Union reps are mostly CSD's then...
I went out with a BA hostie for a couple of years and looking at her take home reckon she was on about £30-32k. She wasn't senior and was on the lower paid 'new contract'. Quite simply, when the competition are paying so much less, it's an unsustainable business model.
I think Mr Walsh is prepared to see it through. He appears to have a lot of internal support from just abut all other departments and the share price has rocketed in the last couple of weeks, suggesting the city already know who'll be the winner. Walsh has to go all the way to Baghdad with it. He can't stop, only to have the problems resurface in 6 months or a year or two years time. He needs to have Tony Woodleys head on a pike outside the head office :-)
I went out with a BA hostie for a couple of years and looking at her take home reckon she was on about £30-32k. She wasn't senior and was on the lower paid 'new contract'. Quite simply, when the competition are paying so much less, it's an unsustainable business model.
I think Mr Walsh is prepared to see it through. He appears to have a lot of internal support from just abut all other departments and the share price has rocketed in the last couple of weeks, suggesting the city already know who'll be the winner. Walsh has to go all the way to Baghdad with it. He can't stop, only to have the problems resurface in 6 months or a year or two years time. He needs to have Tony Woodleys head on a pike outside the head office :-)
Les
21 March 2010, 06:01 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A pilot mate of mine was telling me there was a thread on the BASSA forum suggesting something along the lines of all the cabin crew putting in £100 each (making £1.2m), which would be enough of a commitment to attract some serious backers, enabling them to take over the company...
The mind boggles!
The mind boggles!
21 March 2010, 06:18 PM
#22
Just doesnt make sense, if I were working for a company that was struggling I would want to keep my job, its a hollow victory if they "win" the dispute yet BA goes boast, all the best parasites allow their host to live.
I have a certain ammount of respect for anyone who does that job, dealing with the public in what can be a stressful situation, the need to be diplomatic and difuse situations but it isn't rocket science, 40 grand a year is bloody good money, especially considering the fact that a lot of the time they are on standby or stuck somewhere, they seem to have quite a nice time. At the moment jepordizing all that for taking on a bit more work seems foolish and almost like a return to the 70's, not saying bend over and take every managment edict and whim but be realistic the company arent asking for this to be dictatorial, its to survive.
The pilots at some airlines dont make as much as a BA stewardess. I would imagine that a lot arent keen on this action but dont feel like they can break ranks.
I have a certain ammount of respect for anyone who does that job, dealing with the public in what can be a stressful situation, the need to be diplomatic and difuse situations but it isn't rocket science, 40 grand a year is bloody good money, especially considering the fact that a lot of the time they are on standby or stuck somewhere, they seem to have quite a nice time. At the moment jepordizing all that for taking on a bit more work seems foolish and almost like a return to the 70's, not saying bend over and take every managment edict and whim but be realistic the company arent asking for this to be dictatorial, its to survive.
The pilots at some airlines dont make as much as a BA stewardess. I would imagine that a lot arent keen on this action but dont feel like they can break ranks.
21 March 2010, 07:34 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
40K+ for senior cabin crew if true is a joke, that's about 15k a year more than the average qualified nurse and about 5-10k more than a experienced Police constable. my sister is cabin crew for Thompsons and she earns around 15k a year including commission
21 March 2010, 07:52 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Comparitive salaries...
The average salary for BA’s 14,000 cabin crew, including bonuses and allowances, is £29,900, compared with £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic and £20,200 at easyJet. BA’s pilots earn an average of £107,600, compared with £89,500 at Virgin and £71,400 at easyJet.
Source Times Online
The average salary for BA’s 14,000 cabin crew, including bonuses and allowances, is £29,900, compared with £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic and £20,200 at easyJet. BA’s pilots earn an average of £107,600, compared with £89,500 at Virgin and £71,400 at easyJet.
Source Times Online
21 March 2010, 09:33 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Runway two seven right.
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
£24k a year basic. + £952 per round trip LHR-SIN/BKK gives a £40k + wage.
BA want:
15 to 14 cc on long haul. This involves removing the CSD on these flights.
A 2 year pay freeze.
New contracts for new starters.
BASSA/UNITE are selling their members down the river.
BA want:
15 to 14 cc on long haul. This involves removing the CSD on these flights.
A 2 year pay freeze.
New contracts for new starters.
BASSA/UNITE are selling their members down the river.
22 March 2010, 12:13 AM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Epsom
Posts: 5,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a way I hope BA fold as a clear lesson to the pig ignorant union members of what happens when you ignore the market. Oh I forget, there have been loads of other examples and the thick as **** socialists didnt learn then either....
22 March 2010, 07:50 AM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading some of the stories on pprune is quite shocking; CSD's returning from abroad (and therefore not able to join the strike) asking the ground crews for paperwork showing the names of crew who flew out, taking photos of strike-breaking staff etc., union reps taking their CSD training/exams during the strike.
Some animals are more equal than others...
Some animals are more equal than others...
22 March 2010, 11:04 AM
#29
BANNED
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Start training the older generation now, BA's cabin crew are too young for my liking. No need for the false glamour these days, it doesn't wash.
I flew Continental the other day where the cabin staff all seem over 50, service was top notch. Current BA whippersnappers can try B&Q shifts for size.
I flew Continental the other day where the cabin staff all seem over 50, service was top notch. Current BA whippersnappers can try B&Q shifts for size.
My daughter is cabin crew (not BA) and she has had to take a pay cut and work harder because they are operating with a crew member short.
Meanwhile, the older element that have years of sevice still have their perks and are on more money.
I'll bet the younger BA crews are the ones that are not on strike.
And if you have flown Continental (US) the older crews are not what they seem (security staff in discuise) because of the terrorist threat to US aircraft.
22 March 2010, 11:11 AM
#30
BANNED
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And another thing, my daughters been working as cabin crew for 5 years and has never heard of cabin crews on £30-40 thousand.
If thats the case, deffinately two front feet in the trough!!
If thats the case, deffinately two front feet in the trough!!