David Lock

I see Cameron believes that you need a First Class degree to make a good teacher.

This is complete bollox

I went to a "posh" school and they generally brought in honours graduates from Oxbridge. Yeah they knew their stuff but sod all about actualy teaching it. They would have been better as uni academics teaching Phd students. Teaching has it's own special skills.

I'm afraid that this could be the Eton upbringing. Very disappointing.

Ironically the headmaster at my school was quite brilliant academically and had taught at Eton, marrying the headteacher's daughter which didn't do his CV any harm. It turned out that he was a gay alcoholic

Still I survived I think

I'd be interested in any teacher's views on this.

David

StickyMicky

My misuss managed to get a "first"

What ever the hell that means, she was over the moon with it though, it means nothing to me

She is a science teacher, but has to ask me how physics work all the time (i did an AS level in physics )

She is currently doing a "Masters Degree" in her free time, which again means nothing to me, but she says its better and should help her get promoted faster (she wants to be head of year)

Hysteria1983

Personally I feel a degree is a great achievement, but I don't think it will automatically make you a good teacher.

My sister has a degree in psychology, yet she works in SpecSavers in the office, and she has also worked in the TAX office, both pretty much away from the public as she is not a people person.

The 12 months teacher training can help, but if you are a good teacher, you always would have been, the degree just backs that up for you in my opinion.

If you lack confidence, and cannot assert yourself in the classroom, the best degree and all the training you like won't have a great impact.

Yes I have worked in many schools, and also in the private sector, and no I don't have a degree. However I have seen teachers, mostly newly qualified ones try and fail, as they just haven't got the personal skills required.

It's not JUST about what you have on paper, it is about using what you know, and thinking of a way to make it fun, and get the attention of the class.

bigsinky

^^^^ Totally agree with Hysteria. I train/teach graduate entrants for a government department in NI. I have to say yes they are smart, infact some have brains to burn, but when it comes to people skills, building rapport with other staff members they fall woefully short.

bigsinky

errr...........good luck with that chap. Spent the better part of my married life (10 years)helping my now ex wife revise for her degree and masters. tough going for her, i dont envy you.

StickyMicky

If it means we will finally have enough to eventually get on the property ladder by doing things the right way, then i am all for it.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The difference between a first and a second class degree isn't really a test of intelligence; Its moreso the inclination of the student's dedication to get their head down and do all the proper papers and research to support an indepth, detailed thesis (as well as interim coursework - depending on how the course marking is weighted).

I spent a little too much time out living, hence a first became almost unobtainable, despite top notch exam results.

I do remember some electronics lectures we did that were being done by a post-grad. There was no doubt he knew his stuff, but couldn't lecture for toffee, put it this way, me and a mate ended up taking over from him, as we could speak proper english.

bigsinky

there is that. my wife was head hunted by a university to lecture. earned loads more than me as a senior lecturer. i was kept in the style i was accustomed to.

StickyMicky

If she had of become a doctor as was her first choice, i would have retired by now

r32

My father went into teaching after leaving the RAF at the end of the war. You didnt need a degree in those days. He was an excellent teacher and headmaster, admired and respected by his students and his staff.

However I think you need to be an intelligent person to teach as well as needing that something special to communicate well and gain respect. So I suppose having a degree means you have the necessary inteligence and ability to learn. Whether you have the 'something special' is something they cant teach and can only be found in practice.

Sadly under this regime Universities are being told to dumb down entry qualifications if the applicant is from a poorer background. So they will have to either lower the standard needed to get a degree or accept that there will be less degrees available. Ability should be the sole deciding factor.

Leslie

I did quite a bit of teaching in the RAF both in the air and in the classroom. I found the most important thing was to have a deep knowledge of the subject you were teaching and of course in the air the ability to demonstrate practically and in an accurate manner.

You have to get the respect of the pupils and also the ability to make the subject interesting. Attention is everything!

Those who entered the RAF as university students used to get accelerated promotion because they had a degree. It was generally obvious that they did not have the authority required to carry the promotion and also that they did not have the necessary experience to be able to control men effectively.

It became evident that experience in the RAF and of life in particular was a much better qualification for the job than a degree. The time doing the degree was wasted as far as the Service was concerned.

I would not expect a degree to make a person into a better teacher.

The real value of a degree I would say is if it was directly applicable to the job that the person does afterwards.

So many of the subjects available for a degree course these days are useless and can only be treated as a joke!

Les

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Speaking as a non-teacher, I have seen plenty of teachers with degrees and who can't really teach, whereas there are TAs out there WITHOUT degrees who are excellent "teachers".

It's just carrying the Lying Labour snobbery to a new level: Labour said all teachers should have a degree, (now a masters), so the Tories say a FIRST CLASS degree

BTW: another Lying Labour broken promise, then: all teachers will have a degree? Now they have TAs in charge of classes.......

zeuss

iTrader: (2)

I got a 2:2 Hons Degree in Business Computing & Multimedia in June last year and seriously now considering going back and getting a teaching degree

bigsinky

PGCE mate. gives you a lot of options. teaching in technical colleges part time doing, yes you guessed it SAGE accounts, SAGE payroll. About £35 per hour. a girl i used to work with could have been doing 5 nights a week and saturday mornings if she wanted. thats how busy it is.

bigsinky

hey i worked my *** off for my pass degree in american studies

SunnySideUp

IMO a good Teacher can come through any route.

Personally, I have seen better Teachers coming from outside industry ... those who come through the 'normal' route really struggle to understand the real world, just how it is.

Teaching something like Electronics is far better coming from an Electronic Engineer who has worked 'outside' ..... the Teacher without commercial experience can deliver the theory - but kids need to attach a real world use and the Academic Teacher simply hasn't the skills to do that (whether a 1st, 2nd, Pass or Honours).

Leslie

I would not doubt it Big S, has it been useful in your occupation.?

Les

verdasco1

Well I got a third and i´m a crap teacher!!! So it must be true!!!

bigsinky

ermmmm........................in a word no. did you miss the dry wit on purpose Les? my science degree has. Computing, software engineering and summat else i can't remember. liked it for about two years but as i was working 7 days a week and doing it part time at university 2 nights a week, i couldn't hack the pace. i asked the head tutor if i could take a year out, his reply was "your degree is already taking you 5 years part time, it won't be worth the paper it is written on if you take longer."

so i had a family to feed, bills to pay yada yada. took 3 years out, transferred all my CATS point to Open University. Finished and Honours degree in Science doing modules that actually interested me, Astronomy and Planetary Science, Space and Time, Cosmology. Unfortunatley these courses required a good grounding in maths, so yes you guess it i had to do hard sum courses as well (still don't do calculus that well).

All for what i hear you all ask. to get civil servant middle and senior managers be better managers. i swear to god sometimes it's like running a creche.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

I don't agree that a first class degree will automatically make for a good teacher.

Thinking back to doing A Level maths at school, the teacher we had was next to useless. He was without doubt a brilliant mathematician, but just could not effectively transfer that knowledge to us.

Hysteria1983

Exactly. A kid I was at school with was an absolute genius, he was clever without any effort required.

However he seemed to be on a totally different intellectual plane to the rest of the school. His social skills were lacking some what, and he was no good as a study buddy, as he just didn't know how to pass on his knowledge. It was actually rumored that he got c's for on of the 5 A levels he was taking, just to be accepted as normal' within the sixth form. Thats how much he DIDN'T know people.

Even though I imagine him to be a high flyer in some aspects, teaching or similar would never have been an option for him.

He was a good lad, amazing to listen to, and a little odd.

bigsinky

why is it people of this type are a bit eccentric/strange/odd.

do you think it is because they see the world differently or is it just the way they are wired.

Hysteria1983

It's always the way isn't it?

I think it's a combination of things. I think their intellect stops them from seeing the simplicity in things, so I think they see more of the negative in people rather than the positive. I think sometimes if you are aware of your intellect and thrust it onto people a lot, they can react badly, in turn creating uncomfortable social situations.

Sometimes I think it boils down to them being uninterested in the people who they are a bit lacking, so they just keep themselves to themselves.

Also sometimes they are just a bit odd. I suppose there are a fair few reasons, but I suppose those are just a few I got from him.

sprigeteer

iTrader: (9)

The quality of the degree has very little to do with being a good teacher. Those who have succeeded easily in education are quite often the ones who 'get it' quickly and easily. As a result they often can't empathise with the learner who doesn't 'get it'. This then translates in to them not being the greatest teachers. However, the reverse can be true - there's no rule in my experience. True teaching is about getting the best out of a person, which is different to being academic. Footbal analogy: the best players don't make the best managers.

I bet we can all think of a great teacher but it wasn't the quality of his/her degree that did it for us. It's obviously more complicated, but tell that to a politician on the election trail.

Gordo

This isn't what he said - he (rightly IMO) feels that anyone who only gets a 2:2 or less than a C at GCSE English or Maths is too crap academically to be trusted to teach our kids to do well / teach English or Maths.

Seems common sense to me - lots of ****e teachers get by as it's easy to get in and they're not performance managed out. Unusually I agree with Lewis in that there is a lot of merit in only recruiting teachers once they've had time in the real world. A poor student choosing teaching as an easy option because they're not good enough to get a decent job in industry shouldn't be allowed to teach. The old adage 'those who can do, those who can't teach' is too often true.

That's not to say there aren't great teachers out there, or exceptions who wouldn't now get over the raised bar, but there is merit in having a simple measure of academic quality before allowing people into the classroom.

Gordo

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

The phone rings....

"Mr Smith, hello, it's Maureen from Specsavers, you new glasses are ready and just out of interest, do you ever feel like ******** your Mum and/or killing you dad ?"

bigsinky

^^^^^^ made me titter

bigsinky

a load of old bollox in my experience.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Well in my patch of South Leeds, you need to be able to tolerate "dick-heads" who think "Brapppp" is a form of wit.
We have had some Government Initiative Graduate "fresh young meat" added to the grinder, and they just look like startled rabbits caught in the headlights...

The adjacent CLC has a member of staff of getting hepatitis jabs after being stabbed with a needle... her colleague walked after two proper evil little "*******" threatened him. He left because no-one would take any action to prevent :-
a) Them ever returning to the premises.
b) Take action to protect staff i.e. panic alarms, etc.

My sister teaches music, why did she need a C in maths ? Because the management make you cover any subject at random...

dunx

P.S. I'd probably kill the little b*st*rds if I had to spend 50 minutes in a confined space with them.....

Hysteria1983

Thats cracked me up.

I am sure it's quite the opposite, my mum is ready to kill her! She is 24, and just not on this planet bless her. She needs to hop into the real world.