Lance Armstrong
14 October 2009, 09:21 PM
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Lance Armstrong
I've recently finished reading the Lance Armstrong book "It's not about the bike" and have done some further research on the man, and I don't want to believe it........but I do wonder if he's not the great althlete/human I've read about.
What do you think, is Lance Armstrong:
A.
Sporting Hero
Hates drugs
Unlucky in love
Does good charity work and cancer awareness
B.
Biggest fraud in Histroy
One step ahead of the drug testers
Serial womaniser
Likes to be in the public eye and massage his huge ego
C.
Don't care
What do you think, is Lance Armstrong:
A.
Sporting Hero
Hates drugs
Unlucky in love
Does good charity work and cancer awareness
B.
Biggest fraud in Histroy
One step ahead of the drug testers
Serial womaniser
Likes to be in the public eye and massage his huge ego
C.
Don't care
14 October 2009, 09:53 PM
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He is good at what he does, Never seen him do a wheelie but he is good at racing. I am sure his next book will tell all about how he got away with it for so long.
14 October 2009, 10:04 PM
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It's pretty conclusive that he took EPO during his first tour win in 1999 at the very least.
He has never taken an anti-drugs stance either in his career which grates those trying to clean up the sport. He is still a remarkable athelete though if you accept that all the competition were taking EPO too.
He only focuses on the TDF though and hasn't won any of the other major tours so I don't think he can be classed with the likes of Merckx, Indurain etc.
He is most definitely a clever and ruthless operator though and I will be amazed if he isn't a Senator at the very least in the next ten years.
He has never taken an anti-drugs stance either in his career which grates those trying to clean up the sport. He is still a remarkable athelete though if you accept that all the competition were taking EPO too.
He only focuses on the TDF though and hasn't won any of the other major tours so I don't think he can be classed with the likes of Merckx, Indurain etc.
He is most definitely a clever and ruthless operator though and I will be amazed if he isn't a Senator at the very least in the next ten years.
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15 October 2009, 07:39 AM
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He also exploited a radical new training regime by Chris Carmichael post cancer that almost all other endurance athletes use now. A regime that is totally counter to traditional thinking about fitness and endurance.
When he adopted this he took a significant step forward whether taking drugs or not.
When he adopted this he took a significant step forward whether taking drugs or not.
15 October 2009, 09:25 AM
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Drugs or not the man is an incredible athlete. He has, apparently according to something I read recently, a heart 30% larger than average plus a lung capacity 30% larger than average. When being treated for cancer he also lost shed loads of body weight, as you might expect. Except that afterwards he was a stone lighter, and that stone was missing from the top half of his body, thus less weight to scoot up hills etc. (Think I got the last bit from his book).
Using cycling to try to regain some semblance of fitness for myself. Bleddy hard work keeping up a fast pace, especially on the hills we have here in deepest darkest Cornwall ....
Dave
Using cycling to try to regain some semblance of fitness for myself. Bleddy hard work keeping up a fast pace, especially on the hills we have here in deepest darkest Cornwall ....
Dave
15 October 2009, 11:34 AM
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Most arrogant person ever. I read that book when I was going through my cancer treatment. He thought about nothing else but himself.
He sounds like he likes his own company.
Fair play that he is a great athlete and he has had an amazing medical experience, but god what a yank bastad.
He sounds like he likes his own company.
Fair play that he is a great athlete and he has had an amazing medical experience, but god what a yank bastad.
15 October 2009, 01:41 PM
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My oncologist thinks he's a hero and asked if I had read his book, it was always on my mind to get it. I read his book and I think the guy is a hero. His determination to beat cancer (which had spread to his brain, I think it was something like 7 brain tumors) was an inspiration. Dont give up was his message, he read all he could about cancer and just dedicated himself to beat it. To come back from just outside the pearly gates and succeed in a highly competitive sport is just amazing. Whilst people think he could only win as many Tours as he has if he was on drugs nothing has ever been proven, he was tested many times and was always clean. His charity work for others suffering with cancer has been wonderful, he doesnt just think about himself. A remarkable human being.
15 October 2009, 02:23 PM
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Most arrogant person ever. I read that book when I was going through my cancer treatment. He thought about nothing else but himself.
He sounds like he likes his own company.
Fair play that he is a great athlete and he has had an amazing medical experience, but god what a yank bastad.
He sounds like he likes his own company.
Fair play that he is a great athlete and he has had an amazing medical experience, but god what a yank bastad.
Each person has a different way of dealing with stuff.
15 October 2009, 03:29 PM
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They also asked for Armstrong's permission to test other samples and he refused.
15 October 2009, 03:45 PM
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Typically the names of the tested athletes were not supposed to be released....but the French just leaked his name (funny that) from the tests. Although he did state the old samples were not stored correctly if I recall.
15 October 2009, 03:48 PM
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This is all stuff it says in his book.....this thread is really looking outside of that.
I want to belive he is a fantastic selflesh human too, but there is plenty of evidence to support this may not be the case.
However, as the new route for the TDF is now released I'm going to have to start planning to see him ride for what I guess will be the last time.
I want to belive he is a fantastic selflesh human too, but there is plenty of evidence to support this may not be the case.
However, as the new route for the TDF is now released I'm going to have to start planning to see him ride for what I guess will be the last time.
15 October 2009, 08:57 PM
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This is all stuff it says in his book.....this thread is really looking outside of that.
I want to belive he is a fantastic selflesh human too, but there is plenty of evidence to support this may not be the case.
However, as the new route for the TDF is now released I'm going to have to start planning to see him ride for what I guess will be the last time.
I want to belive he is a fantastic selflesh human too, but there is plenty of evidence to support this may not be the case.
However, as the new route for the TDF is now released I'm going to have to start planning to see him ride for what I guess will be the last time.
Here is an msn transcript between 2 of his team-mates in 1999, a small taster
Cycle of denial: The dirty world of cycling | CBC Sports Online
15 October 2009, 11:33 PM
#23
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Most arrogant person ever. I read that book when I was going through my cancer treatment. He thought about nothing else but himself.
Lance makes no apologies fo rhis personality and IIRC correctly states at the beginning of his book 'It's not about the bike' that he's a brash Texan who not many people will like, but so what....
Hats off to him re what he's achieved anyway
and it would be nice (if not slightly naive) to think that he had managed to do it relatively cleanly
16 October 2009, 01:24 PM
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Somewhere between A & B, I think.
I've read 2 of his books & watched him destroy the opposition in 7 TDF’s. He’s a hero to many. Did you read his words on Kiki Armstrong? She sounds wonderful, why is it they split again?
I too am unsure as to what he’s really about. Especially with this comeback thing. The man is a dichotomy but way more faceted than just your average sportsman. An astute businessman and a formidable manipulator/motivator. I can see why people admire him greatly. Not to mention to whole beating cancer episode.
The thing that has swayed my opinion on him of late is his behaviour during this year’s tour. The advert, ‘I’m doing it for them’ would’ve stacked up better if he’d showed a little more humility and grace in losing to Contador. The bizarre faces on the podium in Paris, the snide remarks about his team mate during the race and the announcement of 'retirement shack' in the last week of the tour when he knew he was beaten. All done in my opinion to deflect the attention away from the deserved winner and best rider by far. Not the actions of a good sportsman - Jack Nicklaus he ain’t.
LiveStrong generates serious revenue to aid people in dealing with cancer. I’ve no doubt he'll run for something way bigger than the just the Governor of Texas one day.
I've read 2 of his books & watched him destroy the opposition in 7 TDF’s. He’s a hero to many. Did you read his words on Kiki Armstrong? She sounds wonderful, why is it they split again?
I too am unsure as to what he’s really about. Especially with this comeback thing. The man is a dichotomy but way more faceted than just your average sportsman. An astute businessman and a formidable manipulator/motivator. I can see why people admire him greatly. Not to mention to whole beating cancer episode.
The thing that has swayed my opinion on him of late is his behaviour during this year’s tour. The advert, ‘I’m doing it for them’ would’ve stacked up better if he’d showed a little more humility and grace in losing to Contador. The bizarre faces on the podium in Paris, the snide remarks about his team mate during the race and the announcement of 'retirement shack' in the last week of the tour when he knew he was beaten. All done in my opinion to deflect the attention away from the deserved winner and best rider by far. Not the actions of a good sportsman - Jack Nicklaus he ain’t.
LiveStrong generates serious revenue to aid people in dealing with cancer. I’ve no doubt he'll run for something way bigger than the just the Governor of Texas one day.
16 October 2009, 08:23 PM
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....ok from what I have read he is a fraud.....as are most other competitors.
Pretty good link:
Lance Armstrong Doping History
Stolen from elsewhere:
Also interesting, the hard to find English translation of L.A. Confidentiel. (See below). When this was first circulated Armstrong's legal Rottweiler’s went so far as to trace people who posted links to it on forums, demanding that they delete all copies they had in their possession and threatening legal action if they ever played a part in 'distributing' the materiel in the future. As a consequence it was effectively removed from the Internet.
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Another hard to find piece of evidence can be found below. This links to a pdf of the full revelations of Jesus Manzano. In it Manzano notes that the team doctors at both Kelme and USP /Disco were good friends of a haematologist who ran the lab used by the UCI to do blood testing, and that the haematologist used to tip off the team doctors when the UCI 'vampires' were about to pay a visit. This story was translated and repeated in full by the English speaking press, with the exception of the bit implicating USP/ Discovery. You can't even find the original in the L'Equipe archives anymore.
http://www.multriman.com/news/riendechange.pdf
Translation:
I want to give you an example, something I've never spoken about except to the police up until now. It concerns one of the four Spanish Laboratories credited by the UCI. This laboratory who is in charge of sending the "UCI" vampires (doctors) to take the samples during the Vuelta and other races is the same lab that's in charge of the doctor visits to the cyclists, they follow the cyclists and give them the stamp of approval on their licenses. The owner of this clinic, a renowned hemotologist, called Walter Viru, who is one of the doctors for Kelme to alert them the day before the UCI vampires were coming to take the samples from the cyclist. And he did the same thing with Del Moral, the doctor for the U.S. Postal team and then Discovery, a good friend of his.
Pretty good link:
Lance Armstrong Doping History
Stolen from elsewhere:
Also interesting, the hard to find English translation of L.A. Confidentiel. (See below). When this was first circulated Armstrong's legal Rottweiler’s went so far as to trace people who posted links to it on forums, demanding that they delete all copies they had in their possession and threatening legal action if they ever played a part in 'distributing' the materiel in the future. As a consequence it was effectively removed from the Internet.
BigTex_Pages_1_50.pdf - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com
BigTex_Pages_51_100.pdf - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com
BigTex_Pages_101_150.pdf - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com
BigTex_4.pdf - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com
Another hard to find piece of evidence can be found below. This links to a pdf of the full revelations of Jesus Manzano. In it Manzano notes that the team doctors at both Kelme and USP /Disco were good friends of a haematologist who ran the lab used by the UCI to do blood testing, and that the haematologist used to tip off the team doctors when the UCI 'vampires' were about to pay a visit. This story was translated and repeated in full by the English speaking press, with the exception of the bit implicating USP/ Discovery. You can't even find the original in the L'Equipe archives anymore.
http://www.multriman.com/news/riendechange.pdf
Translation:
I want to give you an example, something I've never spoken about except to the police up until now. It concerns one of the four Spanish Laboratories credited by the UCI. This laboratory who is in charge of sending the "UCI" vampires (doctors) to take the samples during the Vuelta and other races is the same lab that's in charge of the doctor visits to the cyclists, they follow the cyclists and give them the stamp of approval on their licenses. The owner of this clinic, a renowned hemotologist, called Walter Viru, who is one of the doctors for Kelme to alert them the day before the UCI vampires were coming to take the samples from the cyclist. And he did the same thing with Del Moral, the doctor for the U.S. Postal team and then Discovery, a good friend of his.
16 October 2009, 10:46 PM
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He also exploited a radical new training regime by Chris Carmichael post cancer that almost all other endurance athletes use now. A regime that is totally counter to traditional thinking about fitness and endurance.
When he adopted this he took a significant step forward whether taking drugs or not.
When he adopted this he took a significant step forward whether taking drugs or not.
21 May 2010, 09:26 AM
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Yesterday Floyd Landis ("won" 2006 TDF and later stripped after positive dope test) sent emails to many parties detailing drug use by teams.
Rather than investigate the claims the cycling world is sticking together and denying any of this ever took place.
Rather than investigate the claims the cycling world is sticking together and denying any of this ever took place.
21 May 2010, 10:10 AM
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Landis was a utter bonehead the way he bounced back in the alps on that tour: down and out and then he comes back the next day and blows the peloton away on a stage with two cat one and one haute category climbs. 
However it doesn't mean that his words are untrue. Armstrong has been a remarkably successful athlete and has attracted controversy wherever he's competed. Agreed, it doesn't help his case when the whole staff of L'Equipe are gunning for him but if he is guilty then it should be proven with evidence rather than heresy.
However it doesn't mean that his words are untrue. Armstrong has been a remarkably successful athlete and has attracted controversy wherever he's competed. Agreed, it doesn't help his case when the whole staff of L'Equipe are gunning for him but if he is guilty then it should be proven with evidence rather than heresy.
Last edited by SJ_Skyline; 21 May 2010 at 10:13 AM. Reason: got the wrong stage.. duh...
21 May 2010, 12:47 PM
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I have no idea if you are still around - but have you met Chris? Have you seen the impact he has had on training across all sports. Have you seen how his methods have taken total couch potatoes and got them to complete marathons within months of starting training?
A couple of years ago I met Matthew Pinsent and I had to 'babysit' him for about three hours so we talked about all sorts of subjects.
An obvious was who were his sporting heroes and he didn't mention any cyclists. I asked him about Armstrong and he clearly was very negatively emotional about Armstrong and said that ANY athlete that achieved what seemed to be impossible (i.e. 7 tour wins) could not do it without artificial assistance.
Which I find really odd coming from Pinsent as he has achieved the near impossible with four consecutive Olympic Golds and Redgrave went one further and did five golds. Matt did not think the two experiences were comparable for some strange reason!
A couple of years ago I met Matthew Pinsent and I had to 'babysit' him for about three hours so we talked about all sorts of subjects.
An obvious was who were his sporting heroes and he didn't mention any cyclists. I asked him about Armstrong and he clearly was very negatively emotional about Armstrong and said that ANY athlete that achieved what seemed to be impossible (i.e. 7 tour wins) could not do it without artificial assistance.
Which I find really odd coming from Pinsent as he has achieved the near impossible with four consecutive Olympic Golds and Redgrave went one further and did five golds. Matt did not think the two experiences were comparable for some strange reason!