police to be given new powers to fine for careless driving?
18 August 2009, 08:41 AM
#1
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police to be given new powers to fine for careless driving?
There proposing that the police be given new powers to issue on the spot fines for careless driving. 
BBC NEWS | UK | Warning over driving fines plan
BBC NEWS | UK | Warning over driving fines plan
18 August 2009, 11:43 AM
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So now if a cop doesn't get laid the night before and is in a bad mood, you can get fined if he decides you are driving dangerously! Will it be his word against yours or will he have to produce evidence? surely for an on the spot fine there is no one to produce evidence to so you are shafted!! I am soooo glad I moved out of England. Your laws are going from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Last edited by Wurzel; 18 August 2009 at 12:11 PM.
18 August 2009, 12:04 PM
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I am worried about this one, not because I am a careless driver (much!) but because of civil liberties. Surely to fine someone, you have to have evidence which would stand up in court? I totally disagree with this latest attempt at paying for this Government's *****-up of our economy!
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18 August 2009, 12:09 PM
#8
Dodgy but if used for the common good then it will be quite beneficial, there is so much crap driving so I would have thought that coppers wouldnt have time for borderline stuff or just being bloody minded but should be picking on the mobile users, badly secured loads, idiotic manuevers and the like, maybe the threat of instant expensive karma might make the motoring public behave ?
18 August 2009, 12:13 PM
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I am worried about this one, not because I am a careless driver (much!) but because of civil liberties. Surely to fine someone, you have to have evidence which would stand up in court? I totally disagree with this latest attempt at paying for this Government's *****-up of our economy!
Les
18 August 2009, 12:26 PM
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Dodgy but if used for the common good then it will be quite beneficial, there is so much crap driving so I would have thought that coppers wouldnt have time for borderline stuff or just being bloody minded but should be picking on the mobile users, badly secured loads, idiotic manuevers and the like, maybe the threat of instant expensive karma might make the motoring public behave ?
18 August 2009, 12:53 PM
#11
It will be like any other fixed penalty ticket. You can contest it if you want to and take it to court and have the evidence heard.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
18 August 2009, 04:20 PM
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Unfortunately, this same shower of b*stards are making this impossible for many, be stopping the courts from awarding costs to drivers who are aquitted.
"I know you didnt do it: now go and fight it in court, if you can afford to..."
"I know you didnt do it: now go and fight it in court, if you can afford to..."
18 August 2009, 04:25 PM
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I see what you mean
18 August 2009, 04:30 PM
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If you read it then you will see this....
Think that ends the rioting
Tony
Many of the police actually don't want to do this, because they believe it's more important that an independent tribunal which is not fettered by financial considerations or targets makes that decision
Tony
18 August 2009, 04:31 PM
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It will be like any other fixed penalty ticket. You can contest it if you want to and take it to court and have the evidence heard.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
Guess I should add...
The difference between this and an SP30 is with speeding a device is used to provide evidence. In the case of careless driving, the officer would have to prove to the courts that you were not in control, and WHY. So appealing I would think would be more successful.
Last edited by Snazy; 18 August 2009 at 04:34 PM.
18 August 2009, 05:23 PM
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It will be like any other fixed penalty ticket. You can contest it if you want to and take it to court and have the evidence heard.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.
I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.
You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.
I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.
I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.
18 August 2009, 05:32 PM
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It will not be like any other fixed penalty ticket because careless driving is a subjective offence as opposed to absolute offences, such as speeding.
You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.
I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.
I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.
You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.
I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.
I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.
I hear where you are coming from, but I think its just another thing for people to get wound up about, and then they get nicked, and moan about how stupid and unfair the law is.
If people dont believe they committed the offence, dont accept the FPN and appeal it.
18 August 2009, 05:38 PM
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I can't imagine actually having the time to dish any out. The only time's I've ticketed anyone for a motoring offence is when they've stacked the car and not had a licence/insurance etc.
Give it to the traffic wardens to do - the other day I was having a "allegedly" stolen 207 removed from the scene of an RTC, when a traffic warden wandered over and slapped a ticket on it for parking across three bays...
Give it to the traffic wardens to do - the other day I was having a "allegedly" stolen 207 removed from the scene of an RTC, when a traffic warden wandered over and slapped a ticket on it for parking across three bays...
18 August 2009, 08:16 PM
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How about the justice system being changed so that the people who actually harm others are fined effectively for a change? Why more powers to penalise yet more motorists, who are already the most heavily taxed group in existence!
You can be a serial shoplifter and be fined less. Why not put some more effort into tackling the crime that blights so many towns and city centres first, and then worry about another way to fine motorists when there are already powers in place to deal with these matters.
You can be a serial shoplifter and be fined less. Why not put some more effort into tackling the crime that blights so many towns and city centres first, and then worry about another way to fine motorists when there are already powers in place to deal with these matters.
18 August 2009, 08:32 PM
#22
Because the courts are overrun with career criminals. There are no spaces in prison and thieves normally steal as its their preferred means of income.
Fixed penalty for retail theft is £80 aimed at those who commit theft not having done so before. Once a ticket has been issued to them, they then fall into the court system.
25 years ago, courts were full of motorists, summonsed for minor offences. Those offences are now dealt with by way of a fixed penalty.
Take a drive passt a Magistrates court near you at 0945 on a weekday to see who now uses up that time......
Fixed penalty for retail theft is £80 aimed at those who commit theft not having done so before. Once a ticket has been issued to them, they then fall into the court system.
25 years ago, courts were full of motorists, summonsed for minor offences. Those offences are now dealt with by way of a fixed penalty.
Take a drive passt a Magistrates court near you at 0945 on a weekday to see who now uses up that time......
18 August 2009, 08:37 PM
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Because the courts are overrun with career criminals. There are no spaces in prison and thieves normally steal as its their preferred means of income.
Fixed penalty for retail theft is £80 aimed at those who commit theft not having done so before. Once a ticket has been issued to them, they then fall into the court system.
25 years ago, courts were full of motorists, summonsed for minor offences. Those offences are now dealt with by way of a fixed penalty.
Take a drive passt a Magistrates court near you at 0945 on a weekday to see who now uses up that time......
Fixed penalty for retail theft is £80 aimed at those who commit theft not having done so before. Once a ticket has been issued to them, they then fall into the court system.
25 years ago, courts were full of motorists, summonsed for minor offences. Those offences are now dealt with by way of a fixed penalty.
Take a drive passt a Magistrates court near you at 0945 on a weekday to see who now uses up that time......
18 August 2009, 08:45 PM
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and you will see more police chases as people will try and evade the po po as much as they can!
18 August 2009, 08:55 PM
#25
Most police officers, I'm sure, would agree with your comments. Unfortunately, catching criminals, it would appear, is the easy bit..........persuading CPS to prosecute them and having a punishment worthy of the crime dished out are far more difficult.
Last edited by s70rjw; 18 August 2009 at 08:58 PM.
18 August 2009, 09:52 PM
#26
How about the justice system being changed so that the people who actually harm others are fined effectively for a change? Why more powers to penalise yet more motorists, who are already the most heavily taxed group in existence!
You can be a serial shoplifter and be fined less. Why not put some more effort into tackling the crime that blights so many towns and city centres first, and then worry about another way to fine motorists when there are already powers in place to deal with these matters.
You can be a serial shoplifter and be fined less. Why not put some more effort into tackling the crime that blights so many towns and city centres first, and then worry about another way to fine motorists when there are already powers in place to deal with these matters.
The best punishment I heard was "A day in the court house". The punishment was the fact the he had to turn up at court. Now I had to turn up at court and so did my witnesses (some of whom had been panicking about court for a while) - so are we getting punished as well!!!
The punishment system is a joke and so is free legal aid. Start stopping their benefits, free housing etc and free legal advice for only your first 3 occasions – after that you are on your own.
18 August 2009, 10:00 PM
#27
It will not be like any other fixed penalty ticket because careless driving is a subjective offence as opposed to absolute offences, such as speeding.
You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.
I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.
I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.
You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.
I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.
I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.
The ones who will dish out the tickets is traffic – but that’s what they do. From a police force, they will only make up a small percentage of the police in total.
19 August 2009, 10:57 AM
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At first this seems bad but it's probably not as bad as you think. Here is why:
If you are pulled over by the police and they are minded to do you with careless driving your case will go to court. This will often cost you money and inconvenience and it's a long process (usually) to get your date and get matters resolved. Now you might think that courts are independent tribunals but, lol, they are not and this is especially true of motoring cases. Just look at the conviction rates for motoring offences, they are epic high. In short, if your case goes to court you are simply done pretty much regardless of the evidence. You'll also usually get more than a £60 fine and 3-points so taking a fixed penalty by the roadside is arguably better for us, the punter.
It's another failing in the joke that is the British justice system but I actually view fixed penalties in this case as the lesser of two evils. Simply put you don't want to go before a court with a motoring allegation because if you do you will be found guilty and you'll get more than 3-points and £60.
If you are pulled over by the police and they are minded to do you with careless driving your case will go to court. This will often cost you money and inconvenience and it's a long process (usually) to get your date and get matters resolved. Now you might think that courts are independent tribunals but, lol, they are not and this is especially true of motoring cases. Just look at the conviction rates for motoring offences, they are epic high. In short, if your case goes to court you are simply done pretty much regardless of the evidence. You'll also usually get more than a £60 fine and 3-points so taking a fixed penalty by the roadside is arguably better for us, the punter.
It's another failing in the joke that is the British justice system but I actually view fixed penalties in this case as the lesser of two evils. Simply put you don't want to go before a court with a motoring allegation because if you do you will be found guilty and you'll get more than 3-points and £60.
19 August 2009, 11:43 AM
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The way I see it, is that this will be a disaster for normal drivers like you and me.
Example.
Get caught speeding, and it's a £60 fine and 3 points. Now Plod, if A) he doesn't like you. B) never got laid last night. C) Doesn't like your car etc etc, can now issue you will careless driving as well.
So you now have 2 fines = £120, and 6 points. What's the issue with insurance?
Are they more likely to bump up your insurance premium for careless driving?
Yet drivers who really do drive awfull but within the speed limit will not be stopped.
Example.
Get caught speeding, and it's a £60 fine and 3 points. Now Plod, if A) he doesn't like you. B) never got laid last night. C) Doesn't like your car etc etc, can now issue you will careless driving as well.
So you now have 2 fines = £120, and 6 points. What's the issue with insurance?
Are they more likely to bump up your insurance premium for careless driving?
Yet drivers who really do drive awfull but within the speed limit will not be stopped.
19 August 2009, 12:31 PM
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Unfortunately, catching criminals, it would appear, is the easy bit..........persuading CPS to prosecute them and having a punishment worthy of the crime dished out are far more difficult.