police to be given new powers to fine for careless driving?
 

There proposing that the police be given new powers to issue on the spot fines for careless driving. :nono:

BBC NEWS | UK | Warning over driving fines plan

just another cash cow exercise......

It means giving a copper the power which should only be owned by the courts. It does of course mean a bigger profit margin from the fine :(

Les

as long as the intention is to allow them to shoot middle lane hoggers then I am all for it. That must be classed as being 'careless' and a complete bell-end :mad:

So now if a cop doesn't get laid the night before and is in a bad mood, you can get fined if he decides you are driving dangerously! Will it be his word against yours or will he have to produce evidence? surely for an on the spot fine there is no one to produce evidence to so you are shafted!! I am soooo glad I moved out of England. Your laws are going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Vote in the Tories and they'll be bluediculous. :lol1:


Sorry couldn't help myself :o

I am worried about this one, not because I am a careless driver (much!) but because of civil liberties. Surely to fine someone, you have to have evidence which would stand up in court? I totally disagree with this latest attempt at paying for this Government's balls-up of our economy!

Dodgy but if used for the common good then it will be quite beneficial, there is so much crap driving so I would have thought that coppers wouldnt have time for borderline stuff or just being bloody minded but should be picking on the mobile users, badly secured loads, idiotic manuevers and the like, maybe the threat of instant expensive karma might make the motoring public behave ?

Spot on!

Les

OK, yes, let's think of it in a positive light and that everyone behaves themselves.... Then, because the police have "targets" set, they will be going out their way to nitpick every motorist in order to reach those targets. :mad:

It will be like any other fixed penalty ticket. You can contest it if you want to and take it to court and have the evidence heard.

Or if you think "Yeah, I was a bit stupid the way I drove there" you can just pay the fine and move on with your life.

I cant see what the problem is - at least we can free up some of the courts time on sill careless driving matters where they were going to plead guilty in the first place.

Unfortunately, this same shower of b*stards are making this impossible for many, be stopping the courts from awarding costs to drivers who are aquitted.

"I know you didnt do it: now go and fight it in court, if you can afford to..."

You MAY get legal aid if you earn less than £22325.

I see what you mean :lol1:

If you read it then you will see this....

Think that ends the rioting :lol1:

Tony:)

My thoughts exactly, word for word.

Guess I should add...

The difference between this and an SP30 is with speeding a device is used to provide evidence. In the case of careless driving, the officer would have to prove to the courts that you were not in control, and WHY. So appealing I would think would be more successful.

It will not be like any other fixed penalty ticket because careless driving is a subjective offence as opposed to absolute offences, such as speeding.

You are very naive if you think that large numbers of your colleagues will not abuse the powers that this will give them.

I'm sure there are many idiots out there that would deserve a fixed penalty in borderline situations where the copper otherwise wouldn't think it's worth going to court. However, there will be far too many occasions where innocent drivers will get undeserved points and a fine.

I do not trust the police as a whole to treat this added power responsibly. Sad, but true.

But one that needs to be backed up with proof none the less surely. "cos I said so" wont wash in court.

I hear where you are coming from, but I think its just another thing for people to get wound up about, and then they get nicked, and moan about how stupid and unfair the law is.

If people dont believe they committed the offence, dont accept the FPN and appeal it.

I can't imagine actually having the time to dish any out. The only time's I've ticketed anyone for a motoring offence is when they've stacked the car and not had a licence/insurance etc.

Give it to the traffic wardens to do - the other day I was having a "allegedly" stolen 207 removed from the scene of an RTC, when a traffic warden wandered over and slapped a ticket on it for parking across three bays... :rolleyes:

Is careless driving a criminal offence, i.e. would come up on a CRB check for example?

No its not a criminal offence.

How about the justice system being changed so that the people who actually harm others are fined effectively for a change? Why more powers to penalise yet more motorists, who are already the most heavily taxed group in existence!

You can be a serial shoplifter and be fined less. Why not put some more effort into tackling the crime that blights so many towns and city centres first, and then worry about another way to fine motorists when there are already powers in place to deal with these matters.

Because the courts are overrun with career criminals. There are no spaces in prison and thieves normally steal as its their preferred means of income.
Fixed penalty for retail theft is £80 aimed at those who commit theft not having done so before. Once a ticket has been issued to them, they then fall into the court system.
25 years ago, courts were full of motorists, summonsed for minor offences. Those offences are now dealt with by way of a fixed penalty.
Take a drive passt a Magistrates court near you at 0945 on a weekday to see who now uses up that time......

That is why I would love to see time, money and effort being spent to sort out the career criminals first. More money for prison places etc etc.

and you will see more police chases as people will try and evade the po po as much as they can!

Only a tiny minority of drivers who are stopped for minor traffic offences end up in court. Others receive fixed penalties and the most serious and contested cases end up in court. The rationale behind this proposal is to free up more court space for dealing with more serious criminals. As far as being a revenue earner, the majority of fines for driving without due care issued at Magistrates court are far more than £60.

Most police officers, I'm sure, would agree with your comments. Unfortunately, catching criminals, it would appear, is the easy bit..........persuading CPS to prosecute them and having a punishment worthy of the crime dished out are far more difficult.

I agree. More should be done against criminals etc. Career shoplifters sometimes receive a conditional discharge or an absolute discharge if they admit their guilt at court. This basically means no punishment at all - not even a condition to be good for a month.

The best punishment I heard was "A day in the court house". The punishment was the fact the he had to turn up at court. Now I had to turn up at court and so did my witnesses (some of whom had been panicking about court for a while) - so are we getting punished as well!!!

The punishment system is a joke and so is free legal aid. Start stopping their benefits, free housing etc and free legal advice for only your first 3 occasions – after that you are on your own.

I obviously can’t speak for everyone, but on our shift we hardly get involved with traffic. The usual way it goes, if you see a minor traffic offence (red light etc) you pull the car over, smell their breath to make sure they haven’t been drinking (hardly ever these days) check the car isn’t nicked, check to see if its insured and the driver is who he says he is – words of advice and off they go. They only tend to get tickets if they have a bad attitude.

The ones who will dish out the tickets is traffic – but that’s what they do. From a police force, they will only make up a small percentage of the police in total.

At first this seems bad but it's probably not as bad as you think. Here is why:

If you are pulled over by the police and they are minded to do you with careless driving your case will go to court. This will often cost you money and inconvenience and it's a long process (usually) to get your date and get matters resolved. Now you might think that courts are independent tribunals but, lol, they are not and this is especially true of motoring cases. Just look at the conviction rates for motoring offences, they are epic high. In short, if your case goes to court you are simply done pretty much regardless of the evidence. You'll also usually get more than a £60 fine and 3-points so taking a fixed penalty by the roadside is arguably better for us, the punter.

It's another failing in the joke that is the British justice system but I actually view fixed penalties in this case as the lesser of two evils. Simply put you don't want to go before a court with a motoring allegation because if you do you will be found guilty and you'll get more than 3-points and £60.

The way I see it, is that this will be a disaster for normal drivers like you and me.

Example.
Get caught speeding, and it's a £60 fine and 3 points. Now Plod, if A) he doesn't like you. B) never got laid last night. C) Doesn't like your car etc etc, can now issue you will careless driving as well.

So you now have 2 fines = £120, and 6 points. What's the issue with insurance?

Are they more likely to bump up your insurance premium for careless driving?

Yet drivers who really do drive awfull but within the speed limit will not be stopped.

That is probably the most sensible thing anyone has said on here!