Compensation culture?
25 July 2009, 02:23 PM
#1
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Compensation culture?
Last wekk i was in a local small club at about 11.30, having a drink as you do and my girfriend decided to go for a ciggy!
there is a separate smoking "area" that you get to via a door at the side of the club, this area is open to the elements in as far as it has no roof and the wall separating the smoking area from the outside world is ionly 4ft high, so wind and rain can obviously get in, but it is obviously a part of the club and for patrons only, it even has its own bouncer!
My missus managed to slip and fall over, cos the girl behind her spilled her cocktail, breaking her ankle in 2 places and ended up needing an operation and 2 days in hospital so sort it out!
At the time it happened the manager of the club refused to call an ambulance and took her to the hospital in his own car, and im sure while the bouncers carried her to the managers car they made her injury worse!
We have contacted a few of these claims companies to see what the score is, my missus has to have at least 2 months of work and a load of rehab and physio after that, so we are looking for loss of earnings and maybe a bit of compo thrown in for good measure!
There were no signs up warning of any risk regarding wet floors or spilled drinks, but the compo company has come back and said cos the smoking area is open to the elements, its obvious it could get wet on a rainy night, so care should be taken ( it was raining in macc that night, but not where we were, it was at my mums house 3 miles away), so bsically they wont persue the claim!
Is that right, if so that must be why all the smoking areas round here have no roof, so the excuse to get out of any possible claims is already in place?
Should there be signs saying enter at own risk, there should be some sort of signage surely?
Im generally against compo claims, but kamila's leg is really badly broken and these next 3 months until she is better are going to be difficult for her to keep her payments for loans up (im gonna pay them but dont tell her that just yet!)
Anyone know about this sort of thing, any input is appreciated!
there is a separate smoking "area" that you get to via a door at the side of the club, this area is open to the elements in as far as it has no roof and the wall separating the smoking area from the outside world is ionly 4ft high, so wind and rain can obviously get in, but it is obviously a part of the club and for patrons only, it even has its own bouncer!
My missus managed to slip and fall over, cos the girl behind her spilled her cocktail, breaking her ankle in 2 places and ended up needing an operation and 2 days in hospital so sort it out!
At the time it happened the manager of the club refused to call an ambulance and took her to the hospital in his own car, and im sure while the bouncers carried her to the managers car they made her injury worse!
We have contacted a few of these claims companies to see what the score is, my missus has to have at least 2 months of work and a load of rehab and physio after that, so we are looking for loss of earnings and maybe a bit of compo thrown in for good measure!
There were no signs up warning of any risk regarding wet floors or spilled drinks, but the compo company has come back and said cos the smoking area is open to the elements, its obvious it could get wet on a rainy night, so care should be taken ( it was raining in macc that night, but not where we were, it was at my mums house 3 miles away), so bsically they wont persue the claim!
Is that right, if so that must be why all the smoking areas round here have no roof, so the excuse to get out of any possible claims is already in place?
Should there be signs saying enter at own risk, there should be some sort of signage surely?
Im generally against compo claims, but kamila's leg is really badly broken and these next 3 months until she is better are going to be difficult for her to keep her payments for loans up (im gonna pay them but dont tell her that just yet!)
Anyone know about this sort of thing, any input is appreciated!
25 July 2009, 02:33 PM
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Sorry to hear about this 
- unfortunate indeed.
Write to the club manager and tell him you need his details etc.... might scare him into bunging you a few quid, you never know, until you try !!
good luck
- unfortunate indeed.Write to the club manager and tell him you need his details etc.... might scare him into bunging you a few quid, you never know, until you try !!
good luck
25 July 2009, 03:03 PM
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My sympathies to your missus.
It's always someone else's fault. Sign of the times I guess. Anyone and everyone will do what they can to absolve themselves of responsibiltiy. Disclaimers for this and that.
In this particular case I'd be asking why no ambulance etc. But proving the bouncers caused further injury will be very hard if not impossible to prove. Compo companies make there money with this sort of thing and if they are saying "nothing doing" then I doubt you'll get anything.
It's always someone else's fault. Sign of the times I guess. Anyone and everyone will do what they can to absolve themselves of responsibiltiy. Disclaimers for this and that.
In this particular case I'd be asking why no ambulance etc. But proving the bouncers caused further injury will be very hard if not impossible to prove. Compo companies make there money with this sort of thing and if they are saying "nothing doing" then I doubt you'll get anything.
25 July 2009, 03:38 PM
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My sympathies to your girlfriend. I hope her recovery is as quick as possible.
I understand your concerns about her loss of earnings and the reason that you'd like to pursue compensation, so I doubt what I am about to say is what you are wanting to hear. I'm not intending to be harsh or judgemental though, so please don't take this as any form of attack.
My honest view would be that it's pretty much a given that there is a risk of spilled drinks, (and vomit, other bodily fluids and goodness knows what else), in a club. Can you honestly say that you and your girlfriend were not aware of this and that warning signs would have made the accident less likely?
It's more likely that it's to do with the smokefree laws. On July 1st 2007, the smokefree law was introduced. It is now against the law to smoke in virtually all 'enclosed' and 'substantially enclosed' public places and workplaces. Part of the definition of 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' is that the area has a roof, (which I believe also includes temporary arrangements intended to provide the cover a roof would give, such as awnings). So in not having a roof the area is clearly not an 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' area and therefore the assessment of whether smoking there is legal is straightforward.
Again, would they really have made the accident less likely? As adults surely most of what you choose to do is at your own risk? I feel for your girlfriend but it sounds like this was an accident and not a result of negligence by the club management or staff.
I too am bothered by the manager's refusal to call an ambulance but agree with the poster above that proving this made matters worse would be difficult.
The only way I can really see that the club could be held as negligent was if the club had failed to deal with something that was an obvious risk to health and safety within a reasonable time, (which would depend on the nature of the risk). If you can honestly say the spilled drink your girlfriend slipped in falls into that category then perhaps you have a slim chance. You'd probably have to pay your own solicitor to deal with it though as the ambulance chasing companies you've spoken to will only deal with cases they are fairly sure to win.
I'm sorry to say though that this sounds like an unfortunate accident - just one of those things that happen sometimes.
Oh, and saying I sympathise, I really do because I tore 50% of one of my hamstring muscles by slipping in a pool of liquid (presumably a spilled drink) whilst crossing a dancefloor on a Scooby night out in Guildford several years ago!
The only other thing I can suggest is look at other options. Is your girlfriend entitled to sick pay from work? Would she get statutory sick pay? Could she talk to her employer and maybe adjust her role so that she could keep working whilst recovering? Does she have any sort of payment protection on the loans?
I understand your concerns about her loss of earnings and the reason that you'd like to pursue compensation, so I doubt what I am about to say is what you are wanting to hear. I'm not intending to be harsh or judgemental though, so please don't take this as any form of attack.
Last wekk i was in a local small club at about 11.30, having a drink as you do and my girfriend decided to go for a ciggy!
there is a separate smoking "area" that you get to via a door at the side of the club, this area is open to the elements in as far as it has no roof and the wall separating the smoking area from the outside world is ionly 4ft high, so wind and rain can obviously get in, but it is obviously a part of the club and for patrons only, it even has its own bouncer!
My missus managed to slip and fall over, cos the girl behind her spilled her cocktail, breaking her ankle in 2 places and ended up needing an operation and 2 days in hospital so sort it out!
At the time it happened the manager of the club refused to call an ambulance and took her to the hospital in his own car, and im sure while the bouncers carried her to the managers car they made her injury worse!
We have contacted a few of these claims companies to see what the score is, my missus has to have at least 2 months of work and a load of rehab and physio after that, so we are looking for loss of earnings and maybe a bit of compo thrown in for good measure!
there is a separate smoking "area" that you get to via a door at the side of the club, this area is open to the elements in as far as it has no roof and the wall separating the smoking area from the outside world is ionly 4ft high, so wind and rain can obviously get in, but it is obviously a part of the club and for patrons only, it even has its own bouncer!
My missus managed to slip and fall over, cos the girl behind her spilled her cocktail, breaking her ankle in 2 places and ended up needing an operation and 2 days in hospital so sort it out!
At the time it happened the manager of the club refused to call an ambulance and took her to the hospital in his own car, and im sure while the bouncers carried her to the managers car they made her injury worse!
We have contacted a few of these claims companies to see what the score is, my missus has to have at least 2 months of work and a load of rehab and physio after that, so we are looking for loss of earnings and maybe a bit of compo thrown in for good measure!
Originally Posted by GC8WRX
There were no signs up warning of any risk regarding wet floors or spilled drinks, but the compo company has come back and said cos the smoking area is open to the elements, its obvious it could get wet on a rainy night, so care should be taken ( it was raining in macc that night, but not where we were, it was at my mums house 3 miles away), so bsically they wont persue the claim!
Originally Posted by GC8WRX
if so that must be why all the smoking areas round here have no roof, so the excuse to get out of any possible claims is already in place?
Originally Posted by GC8WRX
Should there be signs saying enter at own risk, there should be some sort of signage surely?
I too am bothered by the manager's refusal to call an ambulance but agree with the poster above that proving this made matters worse would be difficult.
The only way I can really see that the club could be held as negligent was if the club had failed to deal with something that was an obvious risk to health and safety within a reasonable time, (which would depend on the nature of the risk). If you can honestly say the spilled drink your girlfriend slipped in falls into that category then perhaps you have a slim chance. You'd probably have to pay your own solicitor to deal with it though as the ambulance chasing companies you've spoken to will only deal with cases they are fairly sure to win.
I'm sorry to say though that this sounds like an unfortunate accident - just one of those things that happen sometimes.
Oh, and saying I sympathise, I really do because I tore 50% of one of my hamstring muscles by slipping in a pool of liquid (presumably a spilled drink) whilst crossing a dancefloor on a Scooby night out in Guildford several years ago!
Originally Posted by GC8WRX
Im generally against compo claims, but kamila's leg is really badly broken and these next 3 months until she is better are going to be difficult for her to keep her payments for loans up (im gonna pay them but dont tell her that just yet!)
Anyone know about this sort of thing, any input is appreciated!
Anyone know about this sort of thing, any input is appreciated!
25 July 2009, 03:52 PM
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Long shot but might be worth finding out if the manager is a trained first aider as this does involve insurance obligations and declarations if he used his own car-might give you some leverage if only to cover working time lost
cheers richie
cheers richie
25 July 2009, 03:59 PM
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If the area was outside, would the floor not have been concrete flags or similar? Not quite sure how the club would police spills on an external floor!
As for smoking area, it is correct that now since the law cam in there has to be a designated space for smokers but there is nothing in the law that says what sort of provision has to be provided. Some places have set up small gazebos, some have made little garden features but as long as most of the smoking area is open it doesn't matter.
It was a club, without sounding harsh, she should have been looking what she was doing.....how many night clubs have we all been in where the floors are sopping wet due to drinks and the heat of the place?
Surely her company would pay her CSP and surely she will be entitles to SSP?
As for smoking area, it is correct that now since the law cam in there has to be a designated space for smokers but there is nothing in the law that says what sort of provision has to be provided. Some places have set up small gazebos, some have made little garden features but as long as most of the smoking area is open it doesn't matter.
It was a club, without sounding harsh, she should have been looking what she was doing.....how many night clubs have we all been in where the floors are sopping wet due to drinks and the heat of the place?
Surely her company would pay her CSP and surely she will be entitles to SSP?
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25 July 2009, 04:01 PM
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So now, because there is no chance of screwing them for slipping over, we try and go after the manager because surely he shouldnt have tried to help!
25 July 2009, 04:16 PM
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Falkster:
I see where you're going. We live in a culture of blame-shift. Might just be me but what's wrong with being responsible for one's own actions?
I see where you're going. We live in a culture of blame-shift. Might just be me but what's wrong with being responsible for one's own actions?
25 July 2009, 04:31 PM
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I understand compensation is there for people that need and deserve it....someone that has been provided with faulty equipment or not given safety wear....look at that electrical engineer that lost his shoulder....he got nothing when really he had a case. The maximum soldiers can get is something ridiculous but you see so many claims for 'I stubbed my toe on this door frame....oh hang on it does stick out a bit'
Since the culture began to come over from the states I have seen thousands of claims coming into my work and they are stupid. We have even had people try and claim saying they have slipped and done their backs in but I have CCTV footage showing them walking passed a spillage.....they think hey presto!
I even invited one lady in that was putting a claim in and asked her where she had slipped, 'did you actually slip and hit the floor?' 'Yes'. I asked her exactly where, she showed me then I showed her the footage of her walking passed then called the police.
We also have something called civil recovery to claim against thieves....you'll be suprised how expensive it is to steal a bottle of booze from you local supermarket.
I was only talking to my wife about the other day. If this country was like this when I was a kid I would have been a child minders nightmare. In the care of a child minder I broke 2 arms and was run over once!
Who was to blame for that? Me because I was an idiot as a child and would jump off anyting!!
Since the culture began to come over from the states I have seen thousands of claims coming into my work and they are stupid. We have even had people try and claim saying they have slipped and done their backs in but I have CCTV footage showing them walking passed a spillage.....they think hey presto!
I even invited one lady in that was putting a claim in and asked her where she had slipped, 'did you actually slip and hit the floor?' 'Yes'. I asked her exactly where, she showed me then I showed her the footage of her walking passed then called the police.
We also have something called civil recovery to claim against thieves....you'll be suprised how expensive it is to steal a bottle of booze from you local supermarket.
I was only talking to my wife about the other day. If this country was like this when I was a kid I would have been a child minders nightmare. In the care of a child minder I broke 2 arms and was run over once!
Who was to blame for that? Me because I was an idiot as a child and would jump off anyting!!
25 July 2009, 07:38 PM
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Warrning - beer consumed on these premises, you may :-
1. be Vomitted on
2. get Beaten up
3. be Stared at
4. be left alone
5. enjoy yourself
Sorry about your lasses injury and all the best for a speedy recovery, BUT women break ankles all over the place, I saw one step off a kerb in the street and "snap"...
dunx
1. be Vomitted on
2. get Beaten up
3. be Stared at
4. be left alone
5. enjoy yourself
Sorry about your lasses injury and all the best for a speedy recovery, BUT women break ankles all over the place, I saw one step off a kerb in the street and "snap"...
dunx
25 July 2009, 07:46 PM
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One other thing that springs to mind. Do you not think its a massive waste of tax payers money to call an ambulance for a broken ankle let alone be taking one ambulance out of action when they may be a more serious incident to attrend?
Maybe the manager didnt refuse but thought it more common sense to take you misses in his own car.....I'd be thanking him for his assistance.
Maybe the manager didnt refuse but thought it more common sense to take you misses in his own car.....I'd be thanking him for his assistance.
25 July 2009, 08:28 PM
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Girl at my work went out on Christmas Eve in a lovely pair of new blue shoes. Came home with a broken ankle and ended up having 4.5 months off work. Drink and high heels def don't mix.
Sorry about your girlfriend by the way.
Sorry about your girlfriend by the way.
25 July 2009, 08:37 PM
#15
He doesn't grass..........
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...13-clowns.html
Calling an ambulance may have alerted the feds...
25 July 2009, 08:55 PM
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Was she drunk, im surprised the claim company havent asked that already and the fact that your other half had been drinking then I guess it would be quite easy to say she was under the influence hence her falling
hope she gets better soon though
hope she gets better soon though
25 July 2009, 09:10 PM
#17
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Think your gonna have to take this one on the chin and go on the best you can..Happened to a gf of mine a few yrs ago,we were on holiday at some camp resort and was walking back from the club to our accomodation and my gf fell down a hole that some workmen had dug but they didn't tape it off or put up some warning signs.Anyway the gf fractured her ankle and we had to go to hospital being 20 miles away etc,bearing in mind this was almost midnight and the path lights were not that brilliant.Anyhow the holiday camp were denying responsibility saying that my gf had been drinking at the club that night and she must of been drunk i know she wasn't,but the claims company pushed it through as they felt it was a strong case of her winning.It taken a few months but the final result was 4 grand she got.Im not really one to go and sue the *** off everything infact it's happening to much over the yrs probably why health and safety has gone mental in this country.But this happened quite a few yrs back before everyone started jumping in on it and claiming for silly reasons,not saying that yours is but even if you did get someone to take this case on it can take months before a payout.
25 July 2009, 09:26 PM
#18
As unfortunate as you may find it, I think it's most likely you won't get anywhere with this one.
Firstly, I'd imagine any claim company would be reluctant to take it on, as it would by nigh on impossible to prove she wasn't drunk, or that alcohol played a part.
On top of that, this happened outside by all accounts, and if the ground hadn't been wet through a spilled drink, it would be just as likely the same thing could've happened if it had been wet through rain. Thing is, pubs don't have to provide a designated smoking area, or cover of any sort, so if people choose to pop out for a smoke, I'd imagine it's a matter of being careful, just as if you walked out of a pub onto a street. If an area is being used by punters (who take out drinks), there's always a possibility of drink being spilled, so if it was me, I'd be cautious anyway.
It's unfortunate she's been hurt, but I don't think this is a case where blame can be placed very easily, hence companies not wanting to take it on.
Firstly, I'd imagine any claim company would be reluctant to take it on, as it would by nigh on impossible to prove she wasn't drunk, or that alcohol played a part.
On top of that, this happened outside by all accounts, and if the ground hadn't been wet through a spilled drink, it would be just as likely the same thing could've happened if it had been wet through rain. Thing is, pubs don't have to provide a designated smoking area, or cover of any sort, so if people choose to pop out for a smoke, I'd imagine it's a matter of being careful, just as if you walked out of a pub onto a street. If an area is being used by punters (who take out drinks), there's always a possibility of drink being spilled, so if it was me, I'd be cautious anyway.
It's unfortunate she's been hurt, but I don't think this is a case where blame can be placed very easily, hence companies not wanting to take it on.
26 July 2009, 10:55 PM
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I think you should put it down to one of life's lessons and make sure your missus is more careful in future. I'm not a fan of compensation culture at all. There have been plenty of opportunities in my life to sue people and win money off them, hell, just last friday I fell down a set of stairs in a restaurant. The manager came over after I'd sat back down and I could see he was concerned for my wellbeing, but not as concerned as he was that i'd sue him.
All I said was i should have been more careful and looked where I was going, then I got on with my meal.
astraboy.
All I said was i should have been more careful and looked where I was going, then I got on with my meal.
astraboy.
26 July 2009, 11:07 PM
#21
Double edged sword, we moan about being treated like kids and everything being health and safety oriented, takes all the fun out, its not because companies really value our safety, they are there to make money, they do it to comply with regulations and avoid claims, whilst I sympathise I dont think they were negligent, people fall over, especially when they have been drinking and are wearing High Heels (not saying she was), a and e see a lot of ladies with bones at jaunty angles due to the alcohol/heels combo, girl at work has back problems due to them but still wears them !
Sometimes it is your own fault, you fall over, bad luck, move on.
Sometimes it is your own fault, you fall over, bad luck, move on.
27 July 2009, 11:23 AM
#23
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My sympathies to your girlfriend. I hope her recovery is as quick as possible.
I understand your concerns about her loss of earnings and the reason that you'd like to pursue compensation, so I doubt what I am about to say is what you are wanting to hear. I'm not intending to be harsh or judgemental though, so please don't take this as any form of attack.
My honest view would be that it's pretty much a given that there is a risk of spilled drinks, (and vomit, other bodily fluids and goodness knows what else), in a club. Can you honestly say that you and your girlfriend were not aware of this and that warning signs would have made the accident less likely?
It's more likely that it's to do with the smokefree laws. On July 1st 2007, the smokefree law was introduced. It is now against the law to smoke in virtually all 'enclosed' and 'substantially enclosed' public places and workplaces. Part of the definition of 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' is that the area has a roof, (which I believe also includes temporary arrangements intended to provide the cover a roof would give, such as awnings). So in not having a roof the area is clearly not an 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' area and therefore the assessment of whether smoking there is legal is straightforward.
Again, would they really have made the accident less likely? As adults surely most of what you choose to do is at your own risk? I feel for your girlfriend but it sounds like this was an accident and not a result of negligence by the club management or staff.
I too am bothered by the manager's refusal to call an ambulance but agree with the poster above that proving this made matters worse would be difficult.
The only way I can really see that the club could be held as negligent was if the club had failed to deal with something that was an obvious risk to health and safety within a reasonable time, (which would depend on the nature of the risk). If you can honestly say the spilled drink your girlfriend slipped in falls into that category then perhaps you have a slim chance. You'd probably have to pay your own solicitor to deal with it though as the ambulance chasing companies you've spoken to will only deal with cases they are fairly sure to win.
I'm sorry to say though that this sounds like an unfortunate accident - just one of those things that happen sometimes.
Oh, and saying I sympathise, I really do because I tore 50% of one of my hamstring muscles by slipping in a pool of liquid (presumably a spilled drink) whilst crossing a dancefloor on a Scooby night out in Guildford several years ago!
The only other thing I can suggest is look at other options. Is your girlfriend entitled to sick pay from work? Would she get statutory sick pay? Could she talk to her employer and maybe adjust her role so that she could keep working whilst recovering? Does she have any sort of payment protection on the loans?
I understand your concerns about her loss of earnings and the reason that you'd like to pursue compensation, so I doubt what I am about to say is what you are wanting to hear. I'm not intending to be harsh or judgemental though, so please don't take this as any form of attack.
My honest view would be that it's pretty much a given that there is a risk of spilled drinks, (and vomit, other bodily fluids and goodness knows what else), in a club. Can you honestly say that you and your girlfriend were not aware of this and that warning signs would have made the accident less likely?
It's more likely that it's to do with the smokefree laws. On July 1st 2007, the smokefree law was introduced. It is now against the law to smoke in virtually all 'enclosed' and 'substantially enclosed' public places and workplaces. Part of the definition of 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' is that the area has a roof, (which I believe also includes temporary arrangements intended to provide the cover a roof would give, such as awnings). So in not having a roof the area is clearly not an 'enclosed' or 'substantially enclosed' area and therefore the assessment of whether smoking there is legal is straightforward.
Again, would they really have made the accident less likely? As adults surely most of what you choose to do is at your own risk? I feel for your girlfriend but it sounds like this was an accident and not a result of negligence by the club management or staff.
I too am bothered by the manager's refusal to call an ambulance but agree with the poster above that proving this made matters worse would be difficult.
The only way I can really see that the club could be held as negligent was if the club had failed to deal with something that was an obvious risk to health and safety within a reasonable time, (which would depend on the nature of the risk). If you can honestly say the spilled drink your girlfriend slipped in falls into that category then perhaps you have a slim chance. You'd probably have to pay your own solicitor to deal with it though as the ambulance chasing companies you've spoken to will only deal with cases they are fairly sure to win.
I'm sorry to say though that this sounds like an unfortunate accident - just one of those things that happen sometimes.
Oh, and saying I sympathise, I really do because I tore 50% of one of my hamstring muscles by slipping in a pool of liquid (presumably a spilled drink) whilst crossing a dancefloor on a Scooby night out in Guildford several years ago!
The only other thing I can suggest is look at other options. Is your girlfriend entitled to sick pay from work? Would she get statutory sick pay? Could she talk to her employer and maybe adjust her role so that she could keep working whilst recovering? Does she have any sort of payment protection on the loans?
thanks for the honest reply, i thought pretty much what you said, and you just confirmed it, thanks!
As for the loans, i can pay them for a few months so all is well, so far!
27 July 2009, 11:24 AM
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27 July 2009, 11:27 AM
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One other thing that springs to mind. Do you not think its a massive waste of tax payers money to call an ambulance for a broken ankle let alone be taking one ambulance out of action when they may be a more serious incident to attrend?
Maybe the manager didnt refuse but thought it more common sense to take you misses in his own car.....I'd be thanking him for his assistance.
Maybe the manager didnt refuse but thought it more common sense to take you misses in his own car.....I'd be thanking him for his assistance.
27 July 2009, 11:31 AM
#27
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We thought that, but they operated quite soon after the accident, which they cant do if there is alcohol in the system, she had only had 2 single vodkas in the space of an hour!
27 July 2009, 11:32 AM
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I think you should put it down to one of life's lessons and make sure your missus is more careful in future. I'm not a fan of compensation culture at all. There have been plenty of opportunities in my life to sue people and win money off them, hell, just last friday I fell down a set of stairs in a restaurant. The manager came over after I'd sat back down and I could see he was concerned for my wellbeing, but not as concerned as he was that i'd sue him.
All I said was i should have been more careful and looked where I was going, then I got on with my meal.
astraboy.
All I said was i should have been more careful and looked where I was going, then I got on with my meal.
astraboy.
27 July 2009, 12:02 PM
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May be wrong though!