Law on children being left on their own and advice appreciated?
05 December 2008, 11:29 AM
#1
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Law on children being left on their own and advice appreciated?
I've got an issue to deal with concerning my eldest son who lives with his mum, my ex wife. He is 11 years old and just started senior school. It turns out that due to his mum working a few days a week he spends a fair whack of time at home on his own after school and I don't think this is right or legal as he is still a minor.
On top of this he gets himself up in the mornings, makes his own lunches and takes himself off to school quite often not even seeing his mum as she is still in bed even though she also has a 1 year old.
From what I know its 2 days a week he brings himself home from school to an empty house and has to take care of himself for 2-3 hours. His mum will also leave him on his own to look after the 1 year old whilst she goes to the shops, again I don't think this is right or legal and if something was to happen my son would have to live with the consequences when it shouldn't be his responsibility to look after a 1 year old.
My access is only every other weekend even though I went for joint custody 8 years ago now. My issue is that as she is not looking after him in a way I feel is right (or possibly legal) and that with me working at home 3-5 days a week now I could easily share the custody and he would not be left on his own, i.e. he could stay here at least 2 days every week if not more and I could take him to school and pick him up from school.
Does anyone have any experience of renegotiating access to their kids or knowledge on the law regarding leaving minors on their own?
This is not something I can talk to his mum about in an adult manner as we will never be on speaking terms to discuss anything in an adult way no matter how carefully I was to word it. The only way would be through the courts if I was to go ahead. My main ammo in this would have to be her leaving him on his own when I could be looking after him.
On top of this he gets himself up in the mornings, makes his own lunches and takes himself off to school quite often not even seeing his mum as she is still in bed even though she also has a 1 year old.
From what I know its 2 days a week he brings himself home from school to an empty house and has to take care of himself for 2-3 hours. His mum will also leave him on his own to look after the 1 year old whilst she goes to the shops, again I don't think this is right or legal and if something was to happen my son would have to live with the consequences when it shouldn't be his responsibility to look after a 1 year old.
My access is only every other weekend even though I went for joint custody 8 years ago now. My issue is that as she is not looking after him in a way I feel is right (or possibly legal) and that with me working at home 3-5 days a week now I could easily share the custody and he would not be left on his own, i.e. he could stay here at least 2 days every week if not more and I could take him to school and pick him up from school.
Does anyone have any experience of renegotiating access to their kids or knowledge on the law regarding leaving minors on their own?
This is not something I can talk to his mum about in an adult manner as we will never be on speaking terms to discuss anything in an adult way no matter how carefully I was to word it. The only way would be through the courts if I was to go ahead. My main ammo in this would have to be her leaving him on his own when I could be looking after him.
05 December 2008, 11:33 AM
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Doesnt really matter what I think but for me, an 11 year old should be ok in the house for 2-3 hours after school. Never harmed me. I dont agree with him looking after the 1yr old though, but depends on, is he being left with the 1yr old whilst she pops to the corner shop 2 minutes away or for an hour whilst she pops to town for ASDA to do a proper shop etc....
05 December 2008, 11:35 AM
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Don't delay report her to social services as when they catch her they will insist the father maybe able to help in her situation. Then by law they should call you! 
I had to do a similar thing to my own oldest boy!
I had to do a similar thing to my own oldest boy!
05 December 2008, 11:36 AM
#4
Bob,
Some info on the NSPCC site for you about Home Alone
I would consider repeating what you have posted here to them on their confidential help line for adults - 0808 800 5000 - get some advice from people in the know.
Sounds like the law is a little hazy - what you may think constitutes putting a child at risk might not be seen the same way by others...
Some info on the NSPCC site for you about Home Alone
I would consider repeating what you have posted here to them on their confidential help line for adults - 0808 800 5000 - get some advice from people in the know.
The law does not set a minimum age at which children can be left alone. However, it is an offence to leave a child alone when doing so puts him or her at risk.
Last edited by SJ_Skyline; 05 December 2008 at 11:39 AM.
05 December 2008, 11:39 AM
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Doesnt really matter what I think but for me, an 11 year old should be ok in the house for 2-3 hours after school. Never harmed me. I dont agree with him looking after the 1yr old though, but depends on, is he being left with the 1yr old whilst she pops to the corner shop 2 minutes away or for an hour whilst she pops to town for ASDA to do a proper shop etc....
05 December 2008, 11:40 AM
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Bob,
Some info on the NSPCC site for you about Home Alone
I would consider repeating what you have posted here to them on their confidential help line for adults - 0808 800 5000 - get some advice from people in the know.
Sounds like the law is a little hazy - what you may think constitutes putting a child at risk might not be seen the same way by others...
Some info on the NSPCC site for you about Home Alone
I would consider repeating what you have posted here to them on their confidential help line for adults - 0808 800 5000 - get some advice from people in the know.
Sounds like the law is a little hazy - what you may think constitutes putting a child at risk might not be seen the same way by others...
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05 December 2008, 12:07 PM
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drove past a shop the other day with a kid in the pushchair left outside, i assume "mummykins" was inside buying something, completely ****en insane behaviour IMO
05 December 2008, 12:07 PM
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I was first allowed my own key at 11 when i started high school. I used to make my own way to school on the bus and home again every day and would be on my own until my parents got home at about 6.30.
In my opinion it helped teach me responsibility and how to do things for myself. Too many kids are dropped off and picked up from school nowadays in my opinion. They need to find there own way and build up some "street smarts"
However if your lad is unhappy with being on his own and doesn't feel safe/comfortable then is there not any grandparents or Uncles/Aunties that he could go to after school? an other option would be a childminder, I had one of these up til the age of 11.
Its always going to be difficult for a single parent with a job in these situations, i think thats why there is no law on how old you have to be before being alone in the house.
In my opinion it helped teach me responsibility and how to do things for myself. Too many kids are dropped off and picked up from school nowadays in my opinion. They need to find there own way and build up some "street smarts"
However if your lad is unhappy with being on his own and doesn't feel safe/comfortable then is there not any grandparents or Uncles/Aunties that he could go to after school? an other option would be a childminder, I had one of these up til the age of 11.
Its always going to be difficult for a single parent with a job in these situations, i think thats why there is no law on how old you have to be before being alone in the house.
05 December 2008, 12:14 PM
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However if your lad is unhappy with being on his own and doesn't feel safe/comfortable then is there not any grandparents or Uncles/Aunties that he could go to after school? an other option would be a childminder, I had one of these up til the age of 11.
Its always going to be difficult for a single parent with a job in these situations, i think thats why there is no law on how old you have to be before being alone in the house.
Its always going to be difficult for a single parent with a job in these situations, i think thats why there is no law on how old you have to be before being alone in the house.
As for are there any relatives who can pick him up YES ME!!! That is the point, i'm not allowed to as he lives with his mum and not me so unless I took her to court to re do my access there is bu66er all I can do about it.
It isn't difficult for her as she is not a single parent as she has remarried and as his Dad i'm desperate to have him come and stay more, she just wont let him as it's her way of getting at me and treating him like a possession.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 05 December 2008 at 12:15 PM.
05 December 2008, 12:35 PM
#12
Sorry to hear of your hassle. You would think a mother would be happy that you wanted to take more responsibility regardless of your past with her.
Tbh, there seems little you can do with regards to him being alone, if there is no law in place to say he can't be. However, if you are not happy with it, and you think possibly his work is suffering, I would seek some professional advice, on what you can do.
If there is no way you can discuss this with your ex, then take it to court to grant you more access, adressing the concerns you have.
Sorry I can't be any help, but good luck getting something sorted.
Tbh, there seems little you can do with regards to him being alone, if there is no law in place to say he can't be. However, if you are not happy with it, and you think possibly his work is suffering, I would seek some professional advice, on what you can do.
If there is no way you can discuss this with your ex, then take it to court to grant you more access, adressing the concerns you have.
Sorry I can't be any help, but good luck getting something sorted.
05 December 2008, 12:38 PM
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05 December 2008, 12:39 PM
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Sorry to hear of your hassle. You would think a mother would be happy that you wanted to take more responsibility regardless of your past with her.
Tbh, there seems little you can do with regards to him being alone, if there is no law in place to say he can't be. However, if you are not happy with it, and you think possibly his work is suffering, I would seek some professional advice, on what you can do.
If there is no way you can discuss this with your ex, then take it to court to grant you more access, adressing the concerns you have.
Sorry I can't be any help, but good luck getting something sorted.
Tbh, there seems little you can do with regards to him being alone, if there is no law in place to say he can't be. However, if you are not happy with it, and you think possibly his work is suffering, I would seek some professional advice, on what you can do.
If there is no way you can discuss this with your ex, then take it to court to grant you more access, adressing the concerns you have.
Sorry I can't be any help, but good luck getting something sorted.
It still grates me he has to be on his own when he could be with us. She also packs him off to her mothers when she wants to go out with her husband when again he should be coming to me.
05 December 2008, 12:41 PM
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People always used to do this in the good old days. My mum even walked home after leaving my sister outside a local shop in the 70s!
05 December 2008, 12:43 PM
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I also think there is a serious lack of after school care in senior schools. What else could she do? Have you found out if there is after school care and offered to pay for it, if money is the issue?
Have you asked her if you could collect him? Are there any clubs he could do after school?
Have you asked her if you could collect him? Are there any clubs he could do after school?
05 December 2008, 12:45 PM
#17
Thanks Lisa and looks like that is my only option now as called the number above and they said unless the child was at risk of being in danger then there isn't really anything to be concerned about. There is no age limit and boils down to the circumstances as opposed to age.
It still grates me he has to be on his own when he could be with us. She also packs him off to her mothers when she wants to go out with her husband when again he should be coming to me.
It still grates me he has to be on his own when he could be with us. She also packs him off to her mothers when she wants to go out with her husband when again he should be coming to me.
I'd definately get in touch with the courts and put your case forward, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to have more access, especially as it would be more favourable than him being home alone.
Do you (or his mother) know how he feels about spending more time with you and your family? Surely if he wants to, it is unfair of her to stop him. Sorry if you have already mentioned it, but I'm not well and my head's in bits.
05 December 2008, 12:53 PM
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It certainly seems like she is using him, to get to you. Which she could well live to regret as he gets older.
I'd definately get in touch with the courts and put your case forward, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to have more access, especially as it would be more favourable than him being home alone.
Do you (or his mother) know how he feels about spending more time with you and your family? Surely if he wants to, it is unfair of her to stop him. Sorry if you have already mentioned it, but I'm not well and my head's in bits.
I'd definately get in touch with the courts and put your case forward, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to have more access, especially as it would be more favourable than him being home alone.
Do you (or his mother) know how he feels about spending more time with you and your family? Surely if he wants to, it is unfair of her to stop him. Sorry if you have already mentioned it, but I'm not well and my head's in bits.
05 December 2008, 12:57 PM
#19
I'd mention, he is frightened to bring the issue up with his mother also. He shouldn't be frightened to say he wants to spend some time with his Dad.
Good Luck.
05 December 2008, 01:07 PM
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Thanks, will call the courts and see if there is a form that allows me to apply directly to re look at my access without getting a solicitor involved initially.
Unfortunately the courts don't look at it like that or didn't 8 years ago. They look at what is most stable for the child which is why blokes very rarely get joint access, the courts feel the child should live in just one home and only visit the other parent as opposed to live with them.
Unfortunately the courts don't look at it like that or didn't 8 years ago. They look at what is most stable for the child which is why blokes very rarely get joint access, the courts feel the child should live in just one home and only visit the other parent as opposed to live with them.
05 December 2008, 01:13 PM
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Won't going to court etc just inflame the situation with the ex? Surely it would be best, and talking from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't know your situation at all, to talk it over with her? What is the new hubby like? Totally on her side or could he put in a word for you to look after your son more? Just thinking aloud but dragging people through the courts is risking more aggro for yourself and, more importantly, for your son. And he'll not like it. If he hasn't already he'll start to feel like he's being used as a pawn between you.
Just my tuppence ...
Dave
Just my tuppence ...
Dave
05 December 2008, 01:21 PM
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Dave I very much wish I could discuss it with her in an adult manner but there is more chance of hell freezing over. She sees him as a possession and one she will never let me get more access to. Yes going to court will make my life hell as she will make the current access I have even more difficult to succeed, she has stopped me from picking him up before when its been my weekend after we have disagreed over something and there has been sod all I could do about it.
After 8 years of having to put up with that and the fact my circumstances regarding work are very different, ie working from home, it's burning inside me to do something and to get to see him more before he is an adult and i've missed all his growing up.
After 8 years of having to put up with that and the fact my circumstances regarding work are very different, ie working from home, it's burning inside me to do something and to get to see him more before he is an adult and i've missed all his growing up.
05 December 2008, 01:26 PM
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Dave I very much wish I could discuss it with her in an adult manner but there is more chance of hell freezing over. She sees him as a possession and one she will never let me get more access to. Yes going to court will make my life hell as she will make the current access I have even more difficult to succeed, she has stopped me from picking him up before when its been my weekend after we have disagreed over something and there has been sod all I could do about it.
After 8 years of having to put up with that and the fact my circumstances regarding work are very different, ie working from home, it's burning inside me to do something and to get to see him more before he is an adult and i've missed all his growing up.
After 8 years of having to put up with that and the fact my circumstances regarding work are very different, ie working from home, it's burning inside me to do something and to get to see him more before he is an adult and i've missed all his growing up.
05 December 2008, 01:27 PM
#24
As long as he knows and understands his dad loves him then that has surely that has to be the most important thing. It may eat you up mate but draw strength from knowing that he knows this and one day (it might have to be in 5 years time) he can spend as much time with you as he likes.
Chin up
Chin up
05 December 2008, 01:32 PM
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84 cheers, yes i've read some of Swiss's threads on his 'experiences' and have related to them a fair bit. Unfortunately it's a no win situation as you still have the issue of enforcing any changes to the access as there is no one to police it. Unfortunately the fight only ends when they turn 18 and by then they are adults and their childhood gone.
I will talk to his mum once i've thought long and hard how to word it because once i've done that and she tells me to get lost then I can show the courts at least I tried to sort it amicably before turning to them.
I will talk to his mum once i've thought long and hard how to word it because once i've done that and she tells me to get lost then I can show the courts at least I tried to sort it amicably before turning to them.
05 December 2008, 01:36 PM
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As long as he knows and understands his dad loves him then that has surely that has to be the most important thing. It may eat you up mate but draw strength from knowing that he knows this and one day (it might have to be in 5 years time) he can spend as much time with you as he likes.
Chin up
Chin up
05 December 2008, 01:49 PM
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I think an 11 y-o being on his own for a few hours a week is OK, unless it gives him concerns.
But I think it is wrong for an 11 y-o to be looking after a 1 y-o for more than a very short time.
Why can't mum take tiddles out shopping with her? dl
But I think it is wrong for an 11 y-o to be looking after a 1 y-o for more than a very short time.
Why can't mum take tiddles out shopping with her? dl
05 December 2008, 01:54 PM
#29
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Seems to me that this is not a 'child alone and at risk issue', but more of a 'why should he be alone if he has a parent who wants to spend valuable time with him while the other is unavailable'.
Both of my parents worked shift hours while I and my siblings grew up. I loved the great deal of freedom/independence that I had at such a young age. I even scoffed at the kids that were 'restricted', as I saw it.
I don't believe that my relative freedom had anything but a positive influence on me. However, it's totally dependant on the child. If he wishes to be with his Dad in the times when he would otherwise be alone, then that should be granted to him. Try and sort something with your Ex. Surely she wants the best, as you do, for your lad.
Both of my parents worked shift hours while I and my siblings grew up. I loved the great deal of freedom/independence that I had at such a young age. I even scoffed at the kids that were 'restricted', as I saw it.
I don't believe that my relative freedom had anything but a positive influence on me. However, it's totally dependant on the child. If he wishes to be with his Dad in the times when he would otherwise be alone, then that should be granted to him. Try and sort something with your Ex. Surely she wants the best, as you do, for your lad.
05 December 2008, 01:59 PM
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As for her wanting the best for him, you would have thought so wouldn't you. However that hasn't been the case in the last 8 years.