GM near the end
08 November 2008, 06:20 PM
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GM near the end
Having heard about this on the radio today I went a searching looking for some more information, it seems and I know it has been close for some time that GM one of the biggest car manufactorers is in serious trouble.
I was more astounded by the amount of money they need to survive every month just to operate.
General Motors is facing bankruptcy within months - Business News, Business - The Independent
it makes sad reading in one way but amazing in another.
I was more astounded by the amount of money they need to survive every month just to operate.
General Motors is facing bankruptcy within months - Business News, Business - The Independent
it makes sad reading in one way but amazing in another.
08 November 2008, 06:25 PM
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$11 billion per month!!! How many cars do they have to sell per month to cover that?
No wonder they're going bust. The management should be ashamed.
No wonder they're going bust. The management should be ashamed.
Last edited by FlightMan; 08 November 2008 at 08:07 PM.
08 November 2008, 06:38 PM
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I was reading about this earlier on another forum.
It was mentioned on there that they are in such a bad state due to the amount they are paying out in pensions too former employees.
will this affect Vauxhall aswell ie if GM go under will Vauxhall or are they sperate entitys.
dont know what to make of the current situation. Companys like GM & Ford in this much trouble & it seems like Rover are going to be releasing a new model soon.
It was mentioned on there that they are in such a bad state due to the amount they are paying out in pensions too former employees.
will this affect Vauxhall aswell ie if GM go under will Vauxhall or are they sperate entitys.
dont know what to make of the current situation. Companys like GM & Ford in this much trouble & it seems like Rover are going to be releasing a new model soon.
08 November 2008, 07:16 PM
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GM have about 1 months funds but want only 25 billion to help them out so they will only survive a couple of months even with that, I certainly wouldn't fancy paying their bills.
Ford have at least got enough money for another 12 months but it doesn't look great either.
Ford have at least got enough money for another 12 months but it doesn't look great either.
08 November 2008, 07:49 PM
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Ford mortgaged every building/factory/foundry/warehouse etc they own last year and sold Aston,Jag, LR etc to raise money so they can last a bit longer.
GM have yet to do this but they will.
It's the pension and healthcare costs that are crippling them.
Stupid americans don't realise that if they don't accept lesser terms for these things they will lose them all together when the companies go bust.
Both companies are 100 years old and have liabilities stretching back 3-4 generations now which the "new" jap competitors do not.
GM have yet to do this but they will.
It's the pension and healthcare costs that are crippling them.
Stupid americans don't realise that if they don't accept lesser terms for these things they will lose them all together when the companies go bust.
Both companies are 100 years old and have liabilities stretching back 3-4 generations now which the "new" jap competitors do not.
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08 November 2008, 08:07 PM
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GM said it will be near its minimum threshold for operating cash for the remainder of 2008 and will be ``significantly short'' of that level by the end of June without an improvement in market conditions, a major asset sale or access to new loans or cash support. GM has said it needs at least $11 billion in cash to pay its bills each month.
``GM is making a pretty direct plea for help,'' said Pete Hastings, a fixed-income analyst at Morgan Keegan Inc. in Memphis, Tennessee. ``The message is, `we've done all the things we can do, and we need help.' And if we don't get help, fill in the blank.''
Merger talks are being suspended, GM said. The company had been in discussions about a tie-up with Chrysler LLC, people familiar with the plans had said.
Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner and the CEOs of Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler met yesterday with U.S. House and Senate leaders as the automakers seek $50 billion in new government aid, a person familiar with the proposal said.
The third-quarter operating loss was $4.2 billion, or $7.35 a share, GM said today in a statement. Including a non-cash, $4.9 billion one-time gain related to unloading retiree medical bills, the biggest U.S. automaker had a net loss of $2.5 billion, compared with a $38.9 billion year-earlier loss on a tax-accounting charge.
Cash Decline
Cash, equivalents and marketable securities fell to $16.2 billion on Sept. 30, compared with $21 billion at the end of June.
GM fell 52 cents, or 11 percent, to $4.28 at 11:30 a.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading.
08 November 2008, 09:31 PM
#12
Dont like vauxhalls or fords so no great loss there!
These companies / banks are great at taking dividends and bonnuses with execs on enormous salaries and pension packages to the point of crippling the company and then when it all goes **** up they start looking to be bailed out.They are now reaping thier just deserts the only unfortunate thing is its the ordinary folk that really suffer, as the people responsible still remain in thier ivory towers with a secure future regardless of the outcome..
These companies / banks are great at taking dividends and bonnuses with execs on enormous salaries and pension packages to the point of crippling the company and then when it all goes **** up they start looking to be bailed out.They are now reaping thier just deserts the only unfortunate thing is its the ordinary folk that really suffer, as the people responsible still remain in thier ivory towers with a secure future regardless of the outcome..
08 November 2008, 10:10 PM
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If GM go bust, then a lot of other companies will feel the effects.
What most dont know is that the automotive industry, is a very interwoven organisation, with most companys having a stake in there rivals (odd though it may seem)
We used to have a global map showing who had partnerships with who.
The ones i can remember.
Ford own a large stake in Mazda as well as LR Jag & AM (until recently)
BMW despite selling LR used to supply them engines....etc
the list goes on...
the landscape changes regularly, but all take stakes in each other.
GM's probs are as allready mentioned due to outmoded deals being made
generations ago.
to be honest, there is no way back at this stage of the game, look at
Daewoo. Whilst there main business, Arms & shipping prospered, their car
business failed.
All that will happen is that one or more of the other oem's will buy what
part of the organisiation they want, and the rest will go.
Pensions are a big prob, even our pension provider is suffering, we have a
57 million defecit at the mo
Mart
What most dont know is that the automotive industry, is a very interwoven organisation, with most companys having a stake in there rivals (odd though it may seem)
We used to have a global map showing who had partnerships with who.
The ones i can remember.
Ford own a large stake in Mazda as well as LR Jag & AM (until recently)
BMW despite selling LR used to supply them engines....etc
the list goes on...
the landscape changes regularly, but all take stakes in each other.
GM's probs are as allready mentioned due to outmoded deals being made
generations ago.
to be honest, there is no way back at this stage of the game, look at
Daewoo. Whilst there main business, Arms & shipping prospered, their car
business failed.
All that will happen is that one or more of the other oem's will buy what
part of the organisiation they want, and the rest will go.
Pensions are a big prob, even our pension provider is suffering, we have a
57 million defecit at the mo
Mart
09 November 2008, 12:01 AM
#15
I would think that all the other US car manufactures are likely to be pretty P***ed off if GM and maybe Ford get bailed out, when these other companies may already have strategies in place to weather the storm of recession, without the need to go cap in hand to the US govt...
09 November 2008, 12:31 AM
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Probably true, but if the US govt provides funds directly to a private owned company, doesn't that fly in the face of everything the US stands for? capitalism in the truest sense and free trade?
I would think that all the other US car manufactures are likely to be pretty P***ed off if GM and maybe Ford get bailed out, when these other companies may already have strategies in place to weather the storm of recession, without the need to go cap in hand to the US govt...
I would think that all the other US car manufactures are likely to be pretty P***ed off if GM and maybe Ford get bailed out, when these other companies may already have strategies in place to weather the storm of recession, without the need to go cap in hand to the US govt...
But they have done it a lot lately so the precedant has been set.
09 November 2008, 02:10 AM
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Ford has had financial troubles for some time, the fed gov wont bail them out, nor will they bail out GM
No one can sustain that big a loss over and over again
if they do then its a green light for more spending out of control
Mart
No one can sustain that big a loss over and over again
if they do then its a green light for more spending out of control
Mart
09 November 2008, 02:48 AM
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why should they be bailed out, they are a private business not a government one
Did they share any of their profits with anyone ? (except shareholders) they have run their business poorly so let them suffer
Or am I wrong ?
Did they share any of their profits with anyone ? (except shareholders) they have run their business poorly so let them suffer
Or am I wrong ?
09 November 2008, 03:07 AM
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So if Vauxhall or Ford should be about to go bust, would that make now an ideal time to lease/finance a car from them?
If they do go bust then surely there would be no-one to repay the loan to?
If they do go bust then surely there would be no-one to repay the loan to?
09 November 2008, 03:19 AM
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I thought they have their own finance companies which lent the money out, such as Ford Credit Europe etc (althougfh they probably run them as a seperate company, now I think about it). Still, if they weren't going to be about in 2/3/4 years and they know it, why wouyld they offer the deals?
09 November 2008, 03:20 AM
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I thought they have their own finance companies which lent the money out, such as Ford Credit Europe etc (althougfh they probably run them as a seperate company, now I think about it). Still, if they weren't going to be about in 2/3/4 years and they know it, why wouyld they offer the deals?
09 November 2008, 04:00 AM
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Ford Credit were def still part of Ford upto last year, i used to get their results every qtr and Credit were always a big part of them! The largest car finance co on the world i think still...
Edit - yep - Ford :: Customer services
Think GM stills owns half of GMAC?
Edit - yep - Ford :: Customer services
Think GM stills owns half of GMAC?
Last edited by Nat; 09 November 2008 at 04:05 AM.