Electric cars and the future...
31 August 2008, 03:39 PM
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Electric cars and the future...
Please discuss....
With electric cars in various forms now becoming a viable option (e.g. in range, performance). The whole world may change in varying ways.
1) What would happen to exhaust manufacturers?
2) Petrol strong countries (like saudi arabia) will no longer be the powerhouses they once were
3) Will car tuners still be around? In the longer run? Electric cars can have all there torque available immediately and very high bhp out the box
4) Major engine component manufacturers that employee millions of people around the world would need to cut staff in a big way
5) How would the government get billions and billions in tax from fuel (thats why pay as you drive will have to come in)
6) Zero emissions means no car tax? <-- no more blaming performance cars for tax hikes. Could we still drive round london? Would it then go back to a congestion charge (and we find the real reasons for name changes).
7) Would Petrol courts be owned by Electrical companies (if we even need them due to the existing range for electrical cars).
I could go on but think about the millions of people that would be affected if mass production starts on electric cars? Battery technology is now at a state to allow for cars to drive 200 - 300 miles on one charge and do 0 - 60 in less than 4 seconds, top speeds well above 100mph, etc...
With electric cars in various forms now becoming a viable option (e.g. in range, performance). The whole world may change in varying ways.
1) What would happen to exhaust manufacturers?
2) Petrol strong countries (like saudi arabia) will no longer be the powerhouses they once were
3) Will car tuners still be around? In the longer run? Electric cars can have all there torque available immediately and very high bhp out the box
4) Major engine component manufacturers that employee millions of people around the world would need to cut staff in a big way
5) How would the government get billions and billions in tax from fuel (thats why pay as you drive will have to come in)
6) Zero emissions means no car tax? <-- no more blaming performance cars for tax hikes. Could we still drive round london? Would it then go back to a congestion charge (and we find the real reasons for name changes).
7) Would Petrol courts be owned by Electrical companies (if we even need them due to the existing range for electrical cars).
I could go on but think about the millions of people that would be affected if mass production starts on electric cars? Battery technology is now at a state to allow for cars to drive 200 - 300 miles on one charge and do 0 - 60 in less than 4 seconds, top speeds well above 100mph, etc...
31 August 2008, 04:03 PM
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but to be honest if the car does the equivalent of 250+ mpg, has 0-60 of less than 4 seconds, etc I for one would not care one single bit.I would rather keep thousands of pounds a year in my pocket (at the current pricing models that is).
31 August 2008, 09:12 PM
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Are you talking about the new generation of electric sports car here?
Lightning for example....
I think the electric market will be restricted to this type of ride at around £8000 for a while yet until the price drops on the performance models to a level that the average joe can afford, The G-Wiz is a cool town car and great for London or other big cities even if you do look a bit of a plonker and yes it does sound like a milk float even when I turned up my Ipod in my aunts
As for the world changing..... isnt it about time?
The more electric vehicles on the road the safer (and cleaner) the highways will become... with automation being a main factor etc
What about the humble car mechanic?....will he be redundant too or will he have to go through a rather intensive electrophysicist course? (can just see this happening at the local garage)
!One thing I have often wondered about..... are they safe when it rains?......what if you drive through a flood?..(there will be more of them as time goes on) will there be reports of people being killed by their own car from electric shock?
What about people on card meters low income etc?.....will they have to charge the car over night on economy7?
31 August 2008, 09:44 PM
#7
IMO, electric cars are not zero emmission. Electric cars just moves the pollution from the road to the power stations. If all vehicles that are currently on the roads were electric, how many oil/gas/coal/nuclear powerstations would be built to meet the demand in electricity? Increase in demand will surely result in the increase in electricity prices. Perhaps the government would tax electric cars based on the watts rating, ie. a more powerful electric motor will cost more in a "wattage" tax. How much more polluting is it to produce an electric vehicle?
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31 August 2008, 09:57 PM
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More cats will be run over! As electric cars make no sound, cats don't get scared off by the noise when they start up. Sad 
As far as us having more £'s in our pocket, you must be
As soon as petrol cars are priced off the road, they Govt will move on to other types of propulsion 
TX.
As far as us having more £'s in our pocket, you must be
As soon as petrol cars are priced off the road, they Govt will move on to other types of propulsion TX.
31 August 2008, 10:04 PM
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As jonc says - the real question is how and where the energy to drive you along is derived from. This is where the hydrogen myth comes in. Hydrogen is not the future because it costs large amounts of energy to produce (where does that come from?), is difficult to store, and is quite dangerous in an accident! Liquid fuels are much more efficient in these respects, as well as an infrastrure already in place, but again there seems to be an agenda to ignore this.
As for plugging your car into the mains over night to charge it, the constraint is then on
a) power production, and if you follow the news you'll know that relying on Russia and the Middle East for fossil fuel is going to be increasingly risky, as well as whole sections of the current uk nuclear generation capacity is about to become end of life in the next 5-10 years...
b) battery technology, although this is becoming more efficient and will probably continue to do so, for all practical purposes of weight, cost and performance (and lets not forget the "green-ness" of producing them - yawn!), they are still some way behind what is required to make them comparable with modern cars. What about a network of recharging stations? How long will it take to recharge at one of these stations? The solution is a long way off
To my mind, and speaking as a Mechanical Engineer, the optimum solution is a liquid fuel powering an electric motor via a fuel cell, with energy saving features such as regenerative brakes. Energy source to be photovoltaic power stations in sunny remote areas, and/or nuclear technologies. Stop gap energy, clean coal / gasification technologies.
As for plugging your car into the mains over night to charge it, the constraint is then on
a) power production, and if you follow the news you'll know that relying on Russia and the Middle East for fossil fuel is going to be increasingly risky, as well as whole sections of the current uk nuclear generation capacity is about to become end of life in the next 5-10 years...
b) battery technology, although this is becoming more efficient and will probably continue to do so, for all practical purposes of weight, cost and performance (and lets not forget the "green-ness" of producing them - yawn!), they are still some way behind what is required to make them comparable with modern cars. What about a network of recharging stations? How long will it take to recharge at one of these stations? The solution is a long way off
To my mind, and speaking as a Mechanical Engineer, the optimum solution is a liquid fuel powering an electric motor via a fuel cell, with energy saving features such as regenerative brakes. Energy source to be photovoltaic power stations in sunny remote areas, and/or nuclear technologies. Stop gap energy, clean coal / gasification technologies.
31 August 2008, 10:18 PM
#10
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you know what gets me thinking is were only talking about cars here..look at the millitary the F22 raptor for example,the new stealth fighter that runs on todays fuel,now this plane should be in service for atleast the next 30 years or so...does the millitary seem bothered that there build what 30 60 million dollar planes that won't be able to fly..and what about NASA with space shuttle launches and so on...I think theres something more to this,why would you carry on building these things,if the fuel is not going to be available to power them....
31 August 2008, 10:33 PM
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As jonc says - the real question is how and where the energy to drive you along is derived from. This is where the hydrogen myth comes in. Hydrogen is not the future because it costs large amounts of energy to produce (where does that come from?), is difficult to store, and is quite dangerous in an accident! Liquid fuels are much more efficient in these respects, as well as an infrastrure already in place, but again there seems to be an agenda to ignore this.
As for plugging your car into the mains over night to charge it, the constraint is then on
a) power production, and if you follow the news you'll know that relying on Russia and the Middle East for fossil fuel is going to be increasingly risky, as well as whole sections of the current uk nuclear generation capacity is about to become end of life in the next 5-10 years...
b) battery technology, although this is becoming more efficient and will probably continue to do so, for all practical purposes of weight, cost and performance (and lets not forget the "green-ness" of producing them - yawn!), they are still some way behind what is required to make them comparable with modern cars. What about a network of recharging stations? How long will it take to recharge at one of these stations? The solution is a long way off
To my mind, and speaking as a Mechanical Engineer, the optimum solution is a liquid fuel powering an electric motor via a fuel cell, with energy saving features such as regenerative brakes. Energy source to be photovoltaic power stations in sunny remote areas, and/or nuclear technologies. Stop gap energy, clean coal / gasification technologies.
As for plugging your car into the mains over night to charge it, the constraint is then on
a) power production, and if you follow the news you'll know that relying on Russia and the Middle East for fossil fuel is going to be increasingly risky, as well as whole sections of the current uk nuclear generation capacity is about to become end of life in the next 5-10 years...
b) battery technology, although this is becoming more efficient and will probably continue to do so, for all practical purposes of weight, cost and performance (and lets not forget the "green-ness" of producing them - yawn!), they are still some way behind what is required to make them comparable with modern cars. What about a network of recharging stations? How long will it take to recharge at one of these stations? The solution is a long way off
To my mind, and speaking as a Mechanical Engineer, the optimum solution is a liquid fuel powering an electric motor via a fuel cell, with energy saving features such as regenerative brakes. Energy source to be photovoltaic power stations in sunny remote areas, and/or nuclear technologies. Stop gap energy, clean coal / gasification technologies.
31 August 2008, 10:35 PM
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you know what gets me thinking is were only talking about cars here..look at the millitary the F22 raptor for example,the new stealth fighter that runs on todays fuel,now this plane should be in service for atleast the next 30 years or so...does the millitary seem bothered that there build what 30 60 million dollar planes that won't be able to fly..and what about NASA with space shuttle launches and so on...I think theres something more to this,why would you carry on building these things,if the fuel is not going to be available to power them....
01 September 2008, 08:38 AM
#14
Also known as daz
Well for now i can see biofuel being the real alternative, up to 60% cleaner, 106 ron and despite the lower calorific value of the fuel that can be compensated for by raising cr and advancing the timing.
Would be fun to see what opec does, they know they are extracting the urine with their fuel prices hence the recent drops as they were screwing the economies of various countries.
Would be fun to see what opec does, they know they are extracting the urine with their fuel prices hence the recent drops as they were screwing the economies of various countries.
01 September 2008, 09:01 AM
#15
Biofuels may help, but is inefficient. The amount of fossil fuel required for farm machinary, fertilizer, processing, transportation, pollution etc, is almost as much as what you would get from the crops for biofuel. Plus the amount of land required to produce the fuel to fill up one car is vast. Add to that there would be huge scale deforestation to make way for biofuel plantations and biofuel production would displace crops for food.
01 September 2008, 09:01 AM
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Well for now i can see biofuel being the real alternative, up to 60% cleaner, 106 ron and despite the lower calorific value of the fuel that can be compensated for by raising cr and advancing the timing.
Would be fun to see what opec does, they know they are extracting the urine with their fuel prices hence the recent drops as they were screwing the economies of various countries.
Would be fun to see what opec does, they know they are extracting the urine with their fuel prices hence the recent drops as they were screwing the economies of various countries.
Electric cars are a con for the obvious reasons that power must be produced to run them. I guess you could justify them if you had a garage covered in solar panels and charged the batteries from this source (or even a wind turbine). Doubt it would get you very far though.
Hydrogen technology may be a way forward. But there's no real reason why Jo Public can't just drive around in an efficient 1.0 litre diesel. 70 mph and 70 mpg say. dl
Last edited by David Lock; 01 September 2008 at 09:07 AM.
01 September 2008, 11:49 AM
#18
Also known as daz
I could be wrong but I think there is a little confusion here. It's LPG with a higher RON but lower energy value and this means a little extra fuel is used to compensate, hence worse mpg. Bio in diesels is comparable rating to regular diesel.
Electric cars are a con for the obvious reasons that power must be produced to run them. I guess you could justify them if you had a garage covered in solar panels and charged the batteries from this source (or even a wind turbine). Doubt it would get you very far though.
Hydrogen technology may be a way forward. But there's no real reason why Jo Public can't just drive around in an efficient 1.0 litre diesel. 70 mph and 70 mpg say. dl
Electric cars are a con for the obvious reasons that power must be produced to run them. I guess you could justify them if you had a garage covered in solar panels and charged the batteries from this source (or even a wind turbine). Doubt it would get you very far though.
Hydrogen technology may be a way forward. But there's no real reason why Jo Public can't just drive around in an efficient 1.0 litre diesel. 70 mph and 70 mpg say. dl
Not to mention it's is grown as opposed to lpg that is still extracted, biofuel comes from a renewable source.
01 September 2008, 12:24 PM
#19
Electricity generated by Nuclear power in the short/medium term whilst solar and wind energy are harnessed, supplemented by all of the above untill all of the above run out.
01 September 2008, 01:23 PM
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My 2p :
1) What happened to carburettor manufacturers?
3) Refer to electric rc cars. Higher powered motors that slot in in place of the originals. Thicker cables with gold plated end connections
Low current drain lights / heaters / ICE. Suspension mods etc. will still be required.
6) As above, electric cars are not zero emissions, they just displace the pollution elsewhere. Problem (for HMG) is how do you differentiate between the electricity drawn to charge your vehicle, and that used to cook your dinner?
7) I think that a good solution in the short term is to have garages that are effectively storers of charged battery packs, designed to a common specification, and so interchangeable between vehicles. You pull in and get your old pack replaced by a freshly charged one. Shouldn't take any longer than filling a petrol tank.
3) Refer to electric rc cars. Higher powered motors that slot in in place of the originals. Thicker cables with gold plated end connections
Low current drain lights / heaters / ICE. Suspension mods etc. will still be required.6) As above, electric cars are not zero emissions, they just displace the pollution elsewhere. Problem (for HMG) is how do you differentiate between the electricity drawn to charge your vehicle, and that used to cook your dinner?
7) I think that a good solution in the short term is to have garages that are effectively storers of charged battery packs, designed to a common specification, and so interchangeable between vehicles. You pull in and get your old pack replaced by a freshly charged one. Shouldn't take any longer than filling a petrol tank.
01 September 2008, 08:33 PM
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Ok if we say that electric vehicles are going to become more the norm than a fad, that will be great, in a big city where you can charge up and run about for the day, then recharge at the end of it either via the mains or solar etc 
But what about those that live in remote areas?... ie the highlands for example... a lot of the areas up there are an hour if your lucky from any form of real civilization..(towns)..the roads are not exactly level so electric cars would suffer greatly, you wouldnt want to run out of charge on a sheep filled road in the dark up there in the winter believe me (unless of course you like sheep a lot
)
What about all the deliveries?
Almost everything we use/eat etc is moved across the land via trucks of varying sizes.... an electric 40 footer is something I would love to see!!...plus the range would need to be sorted.... trucks travel over the whole UK and abroad and do so for many miles without refuelling I cant see electric being able to fill this position not where the truck needs the power to pull the weight and have the range to make it viable plus extra to run refridgeration units etc...
I know that maybe the larger vehicles will probably use some form of burnt fuel to drive them..... but for how long..... as someone has said Biofuel needs a lot of land to produce enough to fill a car.....what about a truck?..... if we keep destroying the forests we wont need to worry about what type of fuel our car needs we will all be buying aqualungs to be able to breathe instead!
Does anyone here remember Mad Max?
I think it might get to that point (or somewhere close) before some other wonderful form of renewable energy is stumbled across.....Petrol/oil/diesel etc pays big time and will always do so... so the less of it there is the more people will fight for it.
Bring on the interceptors
But what about those that live in remote areas?... ie the highlands for example... a lot of the areas up there are an hour if your lucky from any form of real civilization..(towns)..the roads are not exactly level so electric cars would suffer greatly, you wouldnt want to run out of charge on a sheep filled road in the dark up there in the winter believe me (unless of course you like sheep a lot
)What about all the deliveries?
Almost everything we use/eat etc is moved across the land via trucks of varying sizes.... an electric 40 footer is something I would love to see!!...plus the range would need to be sorted.... trucks travel over the whole UK and abroad and do so for many miles without refuelling I cant see electric being able to fill this position not where the truck needs the power to pull the weight and have the range to make it viable plus extra to run refridgeration units etc...
I know that maybe the larger vehicles will probably use some form of burnt fuel to drive them..... but for how long..... as someone has said Biofuel needs a lot of land to produce enough to fill a car.....what about a truck?..... if we keep destroying the forests we wont need to worry about what type of fuel our car needs we will all be buying aqualungs to be able to breathe instead!
Does anyone here remember Mad Max?
I think it might get to that point (or somewhere close) before some other wonderful form of renewable energy is stumbled across.....Petrol/oil/diesel etc pays big time and will always do so... so the less of it there is the more people will fight for it.
Bring on the interceptors
01 September 2008, 08:42 PM
#22
Also known as daz
Plasma arc reactors are on the way, they work by turning whatever waste into a gaseous form the doing whatever they want with it afterwards, it's the closest thing we have to zero point energy.
Plasma arc waste disposal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Plasma arc waste disposal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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