speedking

A colleague of mine has parked outside the marked bay in a public carpark and received a FPN. Seems black and white. But the circumstances are such that anyone using common sense would not have issued the ticket in the first place.

I used to park in this spot and do exactly the same thing, since he got his new car he has 'stolen' my space and is now having to pay the price

There is a row of parking spaces which are not perpendicular to the hedge at the end. This means that between the last space and the hedge is a small triangle of tarmac. To avoid dents it is convenient to park at an angle in the end space leaving a larger than usual gap to the next car. He parked with his front wheels in the space, and his rear wheel outside the space by about 6", encroaching on the triangle.



He was not using two spaces, or preventing the use of another space. He was not obstructing access to any spaces. He was not restricting pedestrian circulation.

He appealed against the ticket. This was rejected by a standard letter that said "Careful consideration has been given to your representations, including all the circumstances relating to the issue of this PCN", patently untrue because it goes on to say "Experience has shown that all too often other motorists observe vehicles not within a bay and follow suit, resulting in a reduction of bays available for customers due to poor parking and the increased risk of obstruction for pedestrians and other motorists. If all the bays are occupied it means the car park is full and alternative parking should be found." None of this is relevant to this case and on the phone the council worker admitted that she had not seen the e-mailed photographs of the particular incident.

As I say, common sense dictates that a crime has not been committed, although by the letter of the rules he was in the wrong. He's not being fined for causing an obstruction, but because it might encourage others to. If the end line wasn't there it would make no difference to the car park capacity and this issue wouldn't have arisen.

He now has 14 days to pay £25. If he takes his objection further then that 'offer' will lapse and he will have to pay the full £50. Sounds like blackmail to me.

Do you think that if he has his day in court that common sense will prevail and the penalty be overturned? Or is it a cut and dried offence that he has no chance of getting off?

Anyone had a similar experience, and what was the outcome?

PaulC72

No either way if he feels strong enough and able to pay £50 if it goes wrong then he should fight it, stand up and be counted, if he can see that it may be an offence {in any term} then he may just as well pay the £25 as the outcome would probably be against him {if he can see an offence there}

IMO of course.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately he's been fined for not parking in the marked bay and clearly from the photo, this is the case.

It's also unfortunate that common sense does not rule the day, but as they do say: if you see one person parking outside one, you get a ripple effect... so the parking people give no exceptions.

I've seen one person park poorly (over the lines to the next bay) and several people all be 'forced' to do the same. The attendant came along and saw all the incorrectly parked cars and slapped a ticket on each.

I'm sorry but your friend is in the wrong (parking outside the marked area which is what it would say on the ticket btw) and will end up paying the fine.

Incidentally as I am part of the team providing IT support to a city council i can tell you that the authority will have a photo on record of the offense and will have the proof that he parked incorrectly.

richs2891

LOL councils and common sense are not two things that go together.
The letter thye sent back seems to read as a default one, have to remember that most people that work at the council are complete jobsworths who have no ability to think (or think out of the box) and all they are interested in is following the rules and guidlelines and going for the easy life / minimum work- hence the job at the council.

Personally I would fight it.

Richard

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

If it were me, I would want to speak to someone in person regards this.

But dude, that is a hugely underestimated 6 inches... come on

Try nearly 2 feet.

bish667

iTrader: (1)

And to think we wouldnt even have problems like this if other people could respect other peoples cars and not hit them with their doors or if they had licenses that allowed them to be able to park properly.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Amen!

vindaloo

It's a difficult one. I tend to think the council's reasons are a bit "standard letter" really. Especially if the clerk who dealt with it hasn'r seen the photo. How, in that case, can they judge the individual circumstances.

Question: Is £25 worth becoming an expert in council run parking contracts and law? Or.... Does he have a relative or friend who is a lawyer and can try to frighten the council off.

At the end of the day the council can't fine you. Only the courts can impose a penalty. Councils seem loath to take it to that level straight away though. Wonder why.... 'cos it costs far more than £25.

J.

urdad

With all due respect that is very poor parking,and it will constitute parking outsied the marked bay,pay it and park properly..
Anybody driving up and seeing that are going to think..nice parking...
And if that's 6" there be a lot of smiling women around

Iwan

He needs to learn to park, it's not hard.

scoobynewbie72

iTrader: (1)

Id like to see a pic from the front aswell,Its very poorly parked but the fine is a bit harsh

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Issue a conter action stating that the council are failing in their duty to protect some one innocent, severely damaging their car as it ploughs into a vast shrubbery....

LOL

DunxC

speedking

It is not poorly parked, it is deliberately parked like that to optimise the use of the available space, while not inconveniencing anyone else.

urdad

That would be no defence against the gestapo.
Poorly,deliberately or inconsiderately parked,the pic says it all.
If he goes to court it will cost more;do they take pictures now?If they do you can bet theirs will be taken at another angle making it look worse.
He can't argue he was parked within the bay which is the issue and their reason for issuing the ticket.
Be nice to see a ticket overturned but I doubt it will be this one.

DYK

Are there any parking signs up in this car park and did you read what it said,as you can appeal.If for example it says do not park outside the bays,parking in two bays is not technically outside.Signage also needs to be in place and say that a fine will be issued (FPN/PCN) for not parking within a bay.If it just says 'please park in a bay' It's not sufficient.This happened to someone a while back and they got off paying the fine on this same technicality..Also there is the (TRO) TRAFFIC Regulations Orders that you can ask for from the council about the car park,which will have the specifications about the markings.If they do not have a valid TRO for that car park,then the fine would be void...PHEWWW

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

Fight the **** parking council ******* everytime. They forget far too often that they are paid by us to provide a service and yet spend the money they collect employing spineless weasels to fine us

speedking

Thanks for all the feedback.

Here is a photo of the parking from the front.



The signage seems to all be in order, does warn about the PCN, and does state "Park wholly in a marked bay."

A point for the defence is that we get given parking passes by our employer which are displayed in the windscreen, and so we never go near the pay & display machine and associated notices.

He is going to take his complaint to the next level, but unfortunately I don't think he stands a chance

TelBoy

Jobsworth rules, but if they waive it on appeal, i'm Father Christmas. Pay £25 and move on.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Also for a public space that looks huge. Should have no issues if the wheels are left right on the white line perfectly legally.

Can't see a point in complaining further as the fact is he's guilty of the charge, common sense or not and since the court will only deal with the law and not common sense it will be a hiding to nothing.

5t.

Leslie

Very unreasonble to give him a ticket since he was not encroaching on another parking space. Trouble is as usual, its a heaven sent excuse to charge him some more money!

Les

r32

Pay up, he didnt park within the bay, simple as that ..........

DYK

How come you never got a fine when you used to park like that..He could always e mail this guy if wanted to take it further...

RMB Consulting

speedking

I didn't get fined because the car park wasn't run by the council but by the British Legion, or some such organisation, who exercised discretion if you weren't taking the pee. They've only recently introduced parking attendants. Loads of people used to park on the end of rows in the passageways which was OK so long as they weren't causing an obstruction.

My colleague has now chickened out and coughed up the £25.