The Zohan

LONDON (AFP) - London Mayor Boris Johnson poured scorn Tuesday on a "ludicrous" police investigation into how he came into possession of a cigar case belonging to former Iraqi deputy premier Tariq Aziz.

Johnson, who took office last month as the opposition Conservatives' most powerful politician, accused the governing Labour Party of triggering the probe, which he jokingly likened to a "war crime".

The former journalist admitted to having found the red leather cigar case among the bombed-out debris of Aziz's home while visiting Iraq as a reporter in 2003. He wrote about it at the time, and kept it as a trophy of his trip.

Little more was said about it -- until Labour aides unearthed the story during recent campaigning for London mayor, which saw a close-fought race between him and veteran Labour mayor Ken Livingstone.

"They found the article, and with bulging eyes they went to the Metropolitan Police and demanded that I be prosecuted," he wrote in The Daily Telegraph newspaper.

"The poor police have no choice but to investigate this ludicrous affair, and in the interim I am told I must hand the cigar case into police custody -- or else be led in manacles from City Hall.

The 43-year-old jokingly said it was "incredible" that he was being investigated while leaders like US President George W. Bush and former prime minister Tony Blair were not being pursued.

"It seems that a Western politician is finally going to pay the price for his involvement in the Iraq war," he wrote.

But he asked: "Is it Bush or (former US defence secretary Donald) Rumsfeld or (US Vice President Dick) Cheney? Have they found a member of the American administration to take the rap for the disgusting scenes in Abu Ghraib?

"Is it Blair, brought to book after the (House of) Commons failed to impeach him?

"No, my friends, we are not so lucky. None of the major players is going to be arraigned for the Iraq disaster, and the long arm of the law is instead reaching out -- incredibly -- for me."

Defending his actions, he said he even has a letter from Aziz's lawyers stating the former Iraqi foreign minister wishes Johnson to keep the cigar case as a gift.

But, promising to hand the case to police while they pursue their investigation, Johnson underlined the importance of the rule of law.

"It is, after all, what we were fighting for in Iraq," he said.

"It is with a glad heart that I now propose to hand the cigar case over -- though it would be nice, I have to admit, if they arrested Blair and the real culprits instead."





Brown get a grip FFS, This is not important, war, high fuel, guns, drugs, loosing top secret documents and peoples personal info, schools, police, law and order, crime and punishment, the NHS, immigration etc are a bit more important.

lozgti

I don't reallycare what they get up to anymore.Just a question of waiting for the next general election.

Mind you,loved this one

LABOUR UNVEILS PLAN TO LOSE LAST REMAINING VOTES - The Daily Mash

unclebuck

The Salinist Police State of Nu Labor.

Clearly this 'investigation' was ordered by the Government in an attempt to smear Mayor Boris. Sooner they're removed from power the better.

MJW

Yep I agree its a total travesty. I mean, its not as though looting is illegal or anything, plus we totally kicked Iraqs *** so we should be able to just take what we want

Martin2005

'Clearly'?

Martin2005

I agree it's not important and it is petty. However I don't see how a line can be drawn from this to No.10, is there any evidence that the PM ordered this, and is there any evidence that this issue has stopped them concentrating on the issues you stated? If there is then they need to go right now, but I doubt that this is the case.

The Zohan

Lets not put those leftie words into my big mouth, i never said Brown ordered it now did i.

Question -Who was voted for by NL lackies and not the public and who is in charge of the party?

I think you know the answer to that one

Normally when i have a problem with the monkeys i will go see the boss, in this case Brown, poor employes are usually the result of poor management and ineffective management, proceedures and practices.

Brown is in charge, do you really think that he would be unaware, if he was unaware of any smear campaign, given the importance of the mayorial election - if so then more fool him.

**** me if i published pictures of GB ******* a goat (with a signed confession saying he molested the goat) you would blame the goat!

AS for concentrating on the issues - i do not feel GB of his lackies have spent much time other than thier sticking plaster/knee jeck reactions acompanied by some well spun sound bites.

Why are paid (by us) gov't employees/contractors spending time and effectively money on this sort of thing, it is disgusting.

If you asked me is Britian a safer place than 12 years ago i would answer NO!
If you asked ne if the NHS was better than it was 12 tyeas ago then again NO!
If you asked me about schools and education, again NO!
If you ased me should we be fighting a war that we where deceived into i would say NO!

Martin2005

Well I'm not sure anyone voted for him....

'do you really think that he would be unaware' - what of BJ's cigar case? I bloody well hope so, I know the PM's are well known for being able to deal with multiple 'big' issues all at once, but I suspect that this one might not fall into that category.

Anyway what has this issue distracted the government from, which is what you were suggesting in your original post?

Martin2005

Righto Paul, let's pick these up one at a time

Brown and a goat - an interesting point, but as you full well know I do not support GB, he is singularly unsuited to job of PM.

Safer place - no it's not (see we can agree), but this is at least a cultural thing, crime figures have been increasing for about 50 years. Having said that 'tough on crime, tough on the casues of crime' has been shown, in large part to be just words.
NHS - now here we start to disagree, it takes a very cynical and politically biased perspective to come to that conclusion, the NHS is demonstrably improved over the last 12 years, quite frankly it couldn't get any worse than it was when Labour took over from the Tories (who failed to have any sort of cohesive NHS policy). I'm certainly not saying it's as good as it could be, but better it certainly is.
Education - I think this largely depend upon where you live (which is of course a failing). My oldest started school a couple of years ago, brand new school, new equipment, teachers excellent, his educational development has been quite incredible. So whilst the Daily Mail might say different my experience is that is MILES BETEER than when I went to school.
Iraq - now we may all have strong views on this, but the one thing that we can surely agree on is that the Atlantist Tories would without any shadow of a doubt aligned themselves with the US administration, so we would definitely be in the same place right now regardless of government.

Richiehash

Would you care to explain how the nhs has improved-other than flawed target driven performance stats and advances in technology?
From first hand experience i'd say it was much worse unless of course you are a manager or contractor in which case its all nice and rosey on the gravy train.

Richie

Martin2005

Well let's use some basic observations to start with,

Under the previous government far less money was spent - was it spent more efficiently, probably - but they had a fairly lamentable record when comes to the NHS.

Under this government far money has been spent, almost certainly less efficiently, however in pretty much every instance I can think of effiicency tends to go down when spend is increased. I would agrue that overall effectiveness is up based upon the below points


The bare facts are that the NHS treat more patients, more quickly than it has ever done.

We have more doctors and nurses than we've ever had, we are living longer than we ever have. But costs per patient continue to spiral driven by the basic cost of modern treatments, too much beurocracy and increased salaries for employees.

We will NEVER be able spend enough on the NHS because it is has potentially bottomless needs.

As for targets, is there an organisation in the western world that doesn't use targets and measurements to gauge it's performance?

What the government has failed to is properly reform the NHS, but it takes a particularly myopic view or a short memory to suggest it hasn't improved.

BTW we have had personal experience of the NHS very recently and I was really impressed.

The Zohan

Agreed, and as i have forst hand experience with family and also working for parts of the NHS in my job i know all to well the realities, sadly Martin seems to read this off verbatim each time, the proof is in the pudding...

Schools, never, ever had kids taking knives or guns to school and stabbing each other or teachers, maybe i was lucky. We had respect for our teachers, emergency services, our parents and other people...


theses day drugs are readily avaliable to everyboday young and old on our streets. Coming in on the same routes as illegals, etc. Nothing is done...

Tell me those who are old enough do you feel safer now or 20 years ago out at night on a night out or just walking ths streets.

Brown and his lackies are doing a poor job, they should focus on the the big picture and what is important.

Martin to tell, do you really think with something as big as the mayorial election that Brown would have known nothing about this, really. As i said if he did not then more fool Brown!

The Zohan

If the cretins who uncoverd this want some real work to do why not go looking into this before it became the issue it is now

£6m trial collapses after Law Lords ruling - Telegraph

If the law was so important - this would have been delt with a long time ago and not wait until this sh&t state of affairs - reactive government and gutless Gordon at his best.

Martin2005

Paul this your usual anti-government (labour) rant.

As I said we've had an increasing law and order problem in this country for decades, is this Labours fault? is it the Tories fault? Partly I guess, but mostly it is the fault of the individuals and/or the individuals parents.

Somehow you managed mix up law and order with the quality of education, I can only speak about the experience we have with my son, and compare to when I was a similar age.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

firesorter

ludicrus fuel duty has led to this:

Man held after fatal fuel raid - News - Virgin Media

more blood on their hands

Martin2005

So you blame fuel duty for someone's murder, Ive heard it all now

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Do you take class a drugs before posting on scoobynet Maybe you live in a city but this is an everyday occurrence in Cornwall, fuel theft from farms that is.

Martin2005

I think the drugs must be your mate

I wasn't questioning if people are stealing fuel you clown, I know they are. I was, pointing out that you can't blame the government for the someone's murder, unless oyu do of course?

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

My god if you are not on class a drugs you must be a spaz with your illiteracy

Martin2005

this makes me wonder why I even bother responding to your bizzarre and idiotic posts

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Get a grip sunshine.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Lets get this right, Labour are trying to get Johnson prosecuted for taking a Cigar Case fromt he bombed out remains of a house in Iraq, what exactly are they going to charge him with as the "Crime" was not commited in the UK, the owner of the Cigar Case has asked the "Accused" to keep the item with his compliments, the "Accused" wrote about the item and the events which to me does not sound like the work of a master criminal. Its a Cigar box not the Pension fund of a large company, a Christmas Club or the contents of a charity box.

Is that really the best they can come up with, do they really think that even if it does stick they will really cause Boris any negative publicity, he will just deal with it as he does everything else, with a certain amount of honesty, ireverance and common sense in contrast to the pettiness and vitriol from his would be assasins, at least when you are on your way down you may as well try and keep some dignity.

Richiehash

Ok lets look at your basic observations
your assertion that the present squatters in no 10 have spent more money-less efficiently(by your own admission) makes the nhs better,sorry but its how the money is spent which is the issue-Try asking your local hospital how much they have spent on artworks in the last 5 years(doubt they'll tell you tho) or ask them what the total wages bill of non medical staff is compared to medical staff.

As for efficiency decreases by increased spending in your experience-either you are a crap manager or youve been stuck working under one for too long.

More doctors and nurses you claim-would you have the figures to back this especially the nurses figures?

Targets now theres a laugh-youve not seen how the system works have you.
Classic example being A+E targets-now because everyone is seen by a triage nurse within a few minutes all the figures are met sorted.
Or perhaps orthapedic waiting list where people are moved from one list to another which doesnt figure on the targets.
Or cancer hospitals where they artificially have to create a waiting list to get the funding they need-never mind that a 3-4 week wait could and does increase long term mortality rates but long term survival doesnt appear on the targets

More people may be treated however how many of those treatments are 'take 2 paracetamol and go away' or for treatments that people wouldnt even go to the nhs for a few years ago-minor things like colds, flu, sprains stains etc? Figures again please


I'm really rather glad for you and your family that your experience of the nhs was good recently but even comet have the odd happy customer.

Oh and my viewpoints on the nhs are from having worked within it myself as did my wife and from an uncle who is now a manager of a few departments raking in 60k plus a year, as well as from the perspective of a patient


cheers richie

unclebuck

Uh huh.... <nods sagely>

MJW

I think Boris and his cigar case is a relatively minor case of looting when compared to this :

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/wo...8&st=nyt&scp=3

Martin2005

You say 'by your own admission' as though you believe I have an axe to grind here!

As for efficiency versus effectiveness, well my job is helping organisations spend huge budgets more efficiently, and I know (because it's my job to know) that it's a basic commercial reality that the more you spend the ability to spend that money as efficiently is greatly reduced

If the targets are wrong or poorly administered then they should be changed and managed properly, who could argue against that? My point was that there is nothing inherently wrong with targets

As for figures, where are the figures to support your assertions

It's an utter waste of time posting up any kind of official stats on here because if you don't agree you simply say 'ah they're gov stats and therefore lies', whereas anything that supports your point of view is instantly gospel


I just love it that on here offering a bit balanced moderate opinion is seen as being aligned to the Labour Party, is this place THAT extreme?

I still find it astonishing that people in there rush to castigate this government, are prepared to rubbish absolutely everything, can anyone really and truly say that the NHS was better under the last gov....REALLY?

Leslie

Paul,

I think the real answer is that would you ever expect this sorry bunch to ever have any concern for this country or the people in it, especially those who are not immigrants? This of course is a sorry attempt to drag Boris down since he is showing himself to be very good at his present job.

The NHS is no better than it was before NL, only the managers in the PCT's who are making it hand over fist, and the money they are throwing at it is not reaching the sharp end in the manner it should do. The success of the NHS is achieved by the people who work in it in spite of the overbearing, expensive, and top heavy administration.

Les

The Zohan

Could not agree more Les, and if i may add NL does seem to favour the criminal over the victim and has not addressed this in their whole time in charge.

Martin, you mention my "usual anti-Labour rant", tbh NL make it easy to rant by the number and quality of their screw-ups, and i would be on the case of whoever was in power if i felt thet they did not have the best interests of those they are elected to seve as thier first priority!

Do you think itr best use of time and resourse to go looking to tarnish Boris Johnson over a pencil case when there are so many other more important things that need attention - my main point Martin.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I don't think I could...........but I'd assert that it was no worse.

When you figure in the 11 years Labour have had to sort any problems, and the HUGE amounts of cash thrown at it, WHY isn't it many times better?

Some friends of ours are strong Labour supporters. They USED to be members, and went canvassing, etc, although that has cooled somewhat in recent years

Last week we were discussing education as many friends are teachers, etc, and she trotted out again the old old saying, "But we are sorting out problems left us by the Tories".

She went very quiet when I asked if 11 years wasn't long enough?

Alcazar