Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan
13 June 2008, 04:41 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Not the Wild West
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 June 2008, 04:54 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swilling coffee at my lab bench
Posts: 9,096
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not April 1st, is it?
Seriously, that's either a hoax, or some science being misunderstood, or we can all sit back and watch the economy of the Middle East crumble over the next few years while we burn our obsolete thermodynamics textbooks for warmth...
Seriously, that's either a hoax, or some science being misunderstood, or we can all sit back and watch the economy of the Middle East crumble over the next few years while we burn our obsolete thermodynamics textbooks for warmth...
13 June 2008, 04:57 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
13 June 2008, 06:00 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S.E London
Posts: 13,654
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That explains why petrol stations have been charging well over a quid a bottle for water for the past few years. They knew about this all along.
Add "fuel" duty to it, and Evian is about to top Champagne for price per litre ! lol
Add "fuel" duty to it, and Evian is about to top Champagne for price per litre ! lol
13 June 2008, 06:13 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: A big town with sh1t shops: Northampton
Posts: 21,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read a book by Ben Elton whilst on holiday a couple of years ago which I found in the cupboard of my parent's house in France. It was written in the late 80s and was about a guy who'd discovered how to design an engine which would run on water. Basically, the oil companies hunted him down and killed him and everyone who knew about its existence.
If this new discovery is correct, I would welcome it. However, seeing as we can 'survive' without petrol to live, water is another story. I have been thinking alot how we're going to get out of the oil problem and this would seem one solution. Hope it works out and we can release the dependence on oil.
I do worry that water will become the realms of the rich and we'll see the world in a shortage of drinking water!
If this new discovery is correct, I would welcome it. However, seeing as we can 'survive' without petrol to live, water is another story. I have been thinking alot how we're going to get out of the oil problem and this would seem one solution. Hope it works out and we can release the dependence on oil.
I do worry that water will become the realms of the rich and we'll see the world in a shortage of drinking water!
Trending Topics
13 June 2008, 06:31 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: yorkshire (mostly)
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes these have been around for years but like said above oil companies and governments didnt want it released as they couldnt make money on it like they can on oil.
but how it all changes when they think the world is doomed with all this climate change (load of nonsense) and just another way of controlling us and giving us new stealth taxes like getting charged for bin collections when we pay council tax
but how it all changes when they think the world is doomed with all this climate change (load of nonsense) and just another way of controlling us and giving us new stealth taxes like getting charged for bin collections when we pay council tax
13 June 2008, 06:36 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Zed Ess Won Hay Tee
Posts: 21,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 June 2008, 06:41 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swilling coffee at my lab bench
Posts: 9,096
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Genepax unveiled a fuel cell stack with a rated output of 120W and a fuel cell system with a rated output of 300W."
It's the 300W system that's in the car, so not exactly going to be breaking any records for 0-60 or the 1/4 mile just yet... but I still don't get it from a scientific perspective. Splitting water molecules to release hydrogen requires energy - the same amount of energy as you get back when you allow that hydrogen to recombine with oxygen to form water.
If the vehicle's fuel cell produces useful energy that can be used to do work, then surely:
a) It directly violates the 1st law of thermodynamics (conservation of energy), or
b) the temperature of something within the car decreases, which might obey the 1st law but would then be in violation of the 2nd law, or
c) the car converts the water 'fuel' it's supplied with into a form which has lower stored energy, like a conventional engine - in which case it would be interesting to know exactly what that form actually is, or
d) we're not being told the full story!
It's the 300W system that's in the car, so not exactly going to be breaking any records for 0-60 or the 1/4 mile just yet... but I still don't get it from a scientific perspective. Splitting water molecules to release hydrogen requires energy - the same amount of energy as you get back when you allow that hydrogen to recombine with oxygen to form water.
If the vehicle's fuel cell produces useful energy that can be used to do work, then surely:
a) It directly violates the 1st law of thermodynamics (conservation of energy), or
b) the temperature of something within the car decreases, which might obey the 1st law but would then be in violation of the 2nd law, or
c) the car converts the water 'fuel' it's supplied with into a form which has lower stored energy, like a conventional engine - in which case it would be interesting to know exactly what that form actually is, or
d) we're not being told the full story!
13 June 2008, 06:42 PM
#11
obsolete thermodynamics textbooks for warmth
Just over a 100 years ago the worlds greatest scientists knew that human flight was impossible too. My 10 year old nephew "knows "global warming is real as well as its taught in our schools, and al gores propoganda video shown as scientific fact
13 June 2008, 06:47 PM
#12
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 June 2008, 06:54 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swilling coffee at my lab bench
Posts: 9,096
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The toy car uses solar power to produce hydrogen - that's where the energy input to the system comes from. It doesn't 'run on water' at all, it just uses water as a source of hydrogen atoms. The Genepax car is claimed to use water directly.
13 June 2008, 07:21 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 11,905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There presumably has to be a 'normal' energy source in there (a battery) but it produces more energy than it uses. I have no idea how that works!
I would say if you are a crack-pot inventor and have even the inkling of a good idea now is a great time to get VC money ...
Steve
I would say if you are a crack-pot inventor and have even the inkling of a good idea now is a great time to get VC money ...
Steve
13 June 2008, 11:12 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,493
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes
on
12 Posts
I read a book by Ben Elton whilst on holiday a couple of years ago which I found in the cupboard of my parent's house in France. It was written in the late 80s and was about a guy who'd discovered how to design an engine which would run on water. Basically, the oil companies hunted him down and killed him and everyone who knew about its existence.
If this new discovery is correct, I would welcome it. However, seeing as we can 'survive' without petrol to live, water is another story. I have been thinking alot how we're going to get out of the oil problem and this would seem one solution. Hope it works out and we can release the dependence on oil.
I do worry that water will become the realms of the rich and we'll see the world in a shortage of drinking water!
If this new discovery is correct, I would welcome it. However, seeing as we can 'survive' without petrol to live, water is another story. I have been thinking alot how we're going to get out of the oil problem and this would seem one solution. Hope it works out and we can release the dependence on oil.
I do worry that water will become the realms of the rich and we'll see the world in a shortage of drinking water!
- and its only going to get worse
14 June 2008, 10:46 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: No longer Japan !
Posts: 1,742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with AndyC_772, you can't have a system where you start with water and end with water and yet liberate enough energy to do useful work. It just doesn't compute.
Just take a look at their website, it looks like a standard fuel cell except somehow they've splitting water into hydrogen& oxygen too.
gWESh‚Ì”*“d‚ÌŽd‘g‚Ý - Š”Ž®‰ïŽÐƒWƒFƒlƒpƒbƒNƒX
Just take a look at their website, it looks like a standard fuel cell except somehow they've splitting water into hydrogen& oxygen too.
gWESh‚Ì”*“d‚ÌŽd‘g‚Ý - Š”Ž®‰ïŽÐƒWƒFƒlƒpƒbƒNƒX
Last edited by Brit_in_Japan; 14 June 2008 at 10:48 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ossett2k2
Engine Management and ECU Remapping
15
23 September 2015 09:11 AM