transporting car with trailer?
05 June 2008, 05:04 PM
#1
transporting car with trailer?
I'm trying to work out if I could tow a car on a flat bed trailer using e.g. a ford transit.
If I understand correctly, as my license is issued post 1997, I can only tow a maximum train weight of 3500kg.
The car I need transported weighs roughly 1150kg gross and a car trailer weighs in at around 400kg, I think. I.e. total towed weight is ~ 1600kg. This leaves 1900kg for the towing vehicle.
Is it viable to tow the above weight with a transit, legally? What other car could I use for towing the trailer?
The car that is being towed has no MOT, so can't tow it legally, and besides, it's likely to be a trip of around 150 miles.
If I understand correctly, as my license is issued post 1997, I can only tow a maximum train weight of 3500kg.
The car I need transported weighs roughly 1150kg gross and a car trailer weighs in at around 400kg, I think. I.e. total towed weight is ~ 1600kg. This leaves 1900kg for the towing vehicle.
Is it viable to tow the above weight with a transit, legally? What other car could I use for towing the trailer?
The car that is being towed has no MOT, so can't tow it legally, and besides, it's likely to be a trip of around 150 miles.
05 June 2008, 05:11 PM
#2
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The trailer (and car on it) cannot weigh more than the unladen weight of the tow vehicle so your vehicle has to be at least 1600kg and not more than 1900kg. I know a 1993 Ford Transit 80 is only 1500kg.. so technically that would be illegal. With the newer ones, or a bigger one you should be ok.
Last edited by Avi; 05 June 2008 at 05:15 PM. Reason: aa
05 June 2008, 07:26 PM
#6
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I once towed a car on a trailer using a Subaru pick up which was way too light. It was suicidal. I still have nightmares about fishtailing up the M6 past J15 
It took me 2 miles and 2 lanes to get it back under control.
It took me 2 miles and 2 lanes to get it back under control.
05 June 2008, 09:54 PM
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Ive just been looking at 'direct.gov' page, because some of the advice here about towing law/rules is incorrect. Im more confused now about what I can drive, than I was before..... An example: I have a Class C licence (old HGV Class 2) and I took my car driving test before 1997, so I would have been able to drive a 7.5tonne van on that legally and also drive any vehicle that I had an entitlement to with a trailer. If you have a new Class C1 (vans over 3.5t and under 7.5t) entitlement then you need to add the +E class to tow a trailer. I dont have a +E for the C1, but I dont need the C1 (or the trailer +E class due to my pass date. I can drive an HGV weighing 40tonnes: but I cant work out whether I can legally drive a 7.5tonne van with a trailer up to a MAM of 12tonnes.....
Last edited by GC8; 05 June 2008 at 10:12 PM.
06 June 2008, 12:13 AM
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Your right about the advice being iffy.
I think its a no-go with a cat B license - go find an old duffer with a cat B+E license
The limit for cat B. is 3500kg combined - so long as the rated weight capacity of the trailer doesn't exceed the Transit's unladen weight - we're not talking about the weight of the trailer plus its load, we're talking about its MAXIMUM rated capacity including the trailer's own weight (gross weight). To the law, even if its got a dinky toy on the back that maximum gross weight still applies.
So the average 4 wheel braked car trailer is going to push it over - as they are usually rated at 2000kg, a Tranny is anything between 1500 to 1900kg (depending on year, axle type, wheelbase, body etc) so game over, plus if it was 2000kg, your over the 3500kg limit anyway
HOWEVER if you have a B+E on your license (us oldies will, but if you passed your test after 1997, you probably won't). Then you can tow a trailer heavier than the towing vehicle. Providing the towing vehicle is not heavier than 3500kg and the combined weight is no more than 8250kg
With a B+E, a good braked 4 wheeled trailer can be towed by anything within reason (apply common sense, and check the manufacturer's maximum towing weight) as long as its loaded correctly - i.e if the car on the trailer is diesel engined as in nose heavy, don't load it too far forward on the trailer otherwise it jerks/jolts on every bump, or if its too far back it fishtails everywhere. And thats regardless of whats towing it.
If it wasn't the case; Land Rovers towing Land Rovers on braked trailers to off-road events wouldn't be very legal.
I think its a no-go with a cat B license - go find an old duffer with a cat B+E license
The limit for cat B. is 3500kg combined - so long as the rated weight capacity of the trailer doesn't exceed the Transit's unladen weight - we're not talking about the weight of the trailer plus its load, we're talking about its MAXIMUM rated capacity including the trailer's own weight (gross weight). To the law, even if its got a dinky toy on the back that maximum gross weight still applies.
So the average 4 wheel braked car trailer is going to push it over - as they are usually rated at 2000kg, a Tranny is anything between 1500 to 1900kg (depending on year, axle type, wheelbase, body etc) so game over, plus if it was 2000kg, your over the 3500kg limit anyway
HOWEVER if you have a B+E on your license (us oldies will, but if you passed your test after 1997, you probably won't). Then you can tow a trailer heavier than the towing vehicle. Providing the towing vehicle is not heavier than 3500kg and the combined weight is no more than 8250kg
With a B+E, a good braked 4 wheeled trailer can be towed by anything within reason (apply common sense, and check the manufacturer's maximum towing weight) as long as its loaded correctly - i.e if the car on the trailer is diesel engined as in nose heavy, don't load it too far forward on the trailer otherwise it jerks/jolts on every bump, or if its too far back it fishtails everywhere. And thats regardless of whats towing it.
If it wasn't the case; Land Rovers towing Land Rovers on braked trailers to off-road events wouldn't be very legal.
Last edited by Shark Man; 06 June 2008 at 12:28 AM.
06 June 2008, 07:06 AM
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Excellent advice from Sharkman.
You need the "E" licence to tow anything more than the type of trailer used to take the gardening waste to the tip legally. Us "old duffers" have the licence by "grandfathering" rights, you "young uns" have to earn it.
The example of Landies is very serious - a number of prosecutions of younger drivers have taken place, even where they are otherwise well qualified with LGV licences. Note that even "spectacle lift dollies" and "towing A frames" count the whole weight of the towed vehicle, not just the part lifted.
In terms of what you can tow, follow the above advice about correctly loading the trailer and ensure that you have the correct "nose weight". With a correctly loaded trailer you can suceed in towing significantly more than is legally allowed - I "know someone" who towed a 3.5 tonne load on a trailer with an XR4x4 ......
HTH
Duncan
You need the "E" licence to tow anything more than the type of trailer used to take the gardening waste to the tip legally. Us "old duffers" have the licence by "grandfathering" rights, you "young uns" have to earn it.
The example of Landies is very serious - a number of prosecutions of younger drivers have taken place, even where they are otherwise well qualified with LGV licences. Note that even "spectacle lift dollies" and "towing A frames" count the whole weight of the towed vehicle, not just the part lifted.
In terms of what you can tow, follow the above advice about correctly loading the trailer and ensure that you have the correct "nose weight". With a correctly loaded trailer you can suceed in towing significantly more than is legally allowed - I "know someone" who towed a 3.5 tonne load on a trailer with an XR4x4 ......
HTH
Duncan
06 June 2008, 07:24 AM
#14
what an ****, screwed over for being too young again... I thought it finished when I was 18 and was let into the pubs 
I think I might look into getting a B+E license, as it sounds like a useful thing to have... Further complicated by the fact that I've got an EU license at the moment. Never mind, need to change it at some point anyway
I think I might look into getting a B+E license, as it sounds like a useful thing to have... Further complicated by the fact that I've got an EU license at the moment. Never mind, need to change it at some point anyway
06 June 2008, 12:40 PM
#21
Some kind of porsche 924, possibly. Haven't bought one yet, but they all seem to have no MOT (well, the ones within my predefined budget of 500 quid), so need to be transported 
The other option is a jaguar XJ6 or XJ8, but again, at 500 quid they seem to have no MOT's
The budget is set in stone, unfortunately, as it's to be used for an event with a max price of 500 for the cars.
The other option is a jaguar XJ6 or XJ8, but again, at 500 quid they seem to have no MOT's
The budget is set in stone, unfortunately, as it's to be used for an event with a max price of 500 for the cars.
06 June 2008, 12:55 PM
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Some kind of porsche 924, possibly. Haven't bought one yet, but they all seem to have no MOT (well, the ones within my predefined budget of 500 quid), so need to be transported
The other option is a jaguar XJ6 or XJ8, but again, at 500 quid they seem to have no MOT's
The budget is set in stone, unfortunately, as it's to be used for an event with a max price of 500 for the cars.
The other option is a jaguar XJ6 or XJ8, but again, at 500 quid they seem to have no MOT's
The budget is set in stone, unfortunately, as it's to be used for an event with a max price of 500 for the cars.
Simon
06 June 2008, 01:08 PM
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Your right about the advice being iffy.
I think its a no-go with a cat B license - go find an old duffer with a cat B+E license
The limit for cat B. is 3500kg combined - so long as the rated weight capacity of the trailer doesn't exceed the Transit's unladen weight - we're not talking about the weight of the trailer plus its load, we're talking about its MAXIMUM rated capacity including the trailer's own weight (gross weight). To the law, even if its got a dinky toy on the back that maximum gross weight still applies.
So the average 4 wheel braked car trailer is going to push it over - as they are usually rated at 2000kg, a Tranny is anything between 1500 to 1900kg (depending on year, axle type, wheelbase, body etc) so game over, plus if it was 2000kg, your over the 3500kg limit anyway
HOWEVER if you have a B+E on your license (us oldies will, but if you passed your test after 1997, you probably won't). Then you can tow a trailer heavier than the towing vehicle. Providing the towing vehicle is not heavier than 3500kg and the combined weight is no more than 8250kg
With a B+E, a good braked 4 wheeled trailer can be towed by anything within reason (apply common sense, and check the manufacturer's maximum towing weight) as long as its loaded correctly - i.e if the car on the trailer is diesel engined as in nose heavy, don't load it too far forward on the trailer otherwise it jerks/jolts on every bump, or if its too far back it fishtails everywhere. And thats regardless of whats towing it.
If it wasn't the case; Land Rovers towing Land Rovers on braked trailers to off-road events wouldn't be very legal.
I think its a no-go with a cat B license - go find an old duffer with a cat B+E license
The limit for cat B. is 3500kg combined - so long as the rated weight capacity of the trailer doesn't exceed the Transit's unladen weight - we're not talking about the weight of the trailer plus its load, we're talking about its MAXIMUM rated capacity including the trailer's own weight (gross weight). To the law, even if its got a dinky toy on the back that maximum gross weight still applies.
So the average 4 wheel braked car trailer is going to push it over - as they are usually rated at 2000kg, a Tranny is anything between 1500 to 1900kg (depending on year, axle type, wheelbase, body etc) so game over, plus if it was 2000kg, your over the 3500kg limit anyway
HOWEVER if you have a B+E on your license (us oldies will, but if you passed your test after 1997, you probably won't). Then you can tow a trailer heavier than the towing vehicle. Providing the towing vehicle is not heavier than 3500kg and the combined weight is no more than 8250kg
With a B+E, a good braked 4 wheeled trailer can be towed by anything within reason (apply common sense, and check the manufacturer's maximum towing weight) as long as its loaded correctly - i.e if the car on the trailer is diesel engined as in nose heavy, don't load it too far forward on the trailer otherwise it jerks/jolts on every bump, or if its too far back it fishtails everywhere. And thats regardless of whats towing it.
If it wasn't the case; Land Rovers towing Land Rovers on braked trailers to off-road events wouldn't be very legal.
you're nearly there except its the MAM of the transit plus the MAM of the car trailer, the MAM of a transit is usually 3.5t on its own so no chance
06 June 2008, 01:17 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by Henrik
The budget is set in stone, unfortunately, as it's to be used for an event with a max price of 500 for the cars.
2007:
06 June 2008, 01:32 PM
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The only 924 was confiscated by the Stuttgart police and crushed. Id discount any thoughts about a Jag, last years and this years events were full of Jaguars and whilst they didnt all breakdown, they cost a fortune in fuel. My 944 wasnt ready for this years event, so I went in a Skoda (and didnt do a bad time around the Nordschleife either): itll be back next year though...
With regards to cost, I bought an honest 944 off a specialist/aquaintance for under £500, so Id be expecting a full MOT on a sub-£500 924.
Youd be extremely foolish if you were considering going without all of the required documents: I spent over an hour being inspected by the Germans and when they couldnt fault the car (three of the other four cars who followed James and myself out fo the site in Stuttgart had their vehicles confiscated/condemned), they spent a further 10 minutes checking my extinguisher, high vis, first aid kit, triangle, bulb kit, vehicle registration, MOT (which theyd ignored for an hour as the armed vehicle inspector crawled about under the damned car).....
Simon
With regards to cost, I bought an honest 944 off a specialist/aquaintance for under £500, so Id be expecting a full MOT on a sub-£500 924.
Youd be extremely foolish if you were considering going without all of the required documents: I spent over an hour being inspected by the Germans and when they couldnt fault the car (three of the other four cars who followed James and myself out fo the site in Stuttgart had their vehicles confiscated/condemned), they spent a further 10 minutes checking my extinguisher, high vis, first aid kit, triangle, bulb kit, vehicle registration, MOT (which theyd ignored for an hour as the armed vehicle inspector crawled about under the damned car).....
Simon
06 June 2008, 01:33 PM
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And the lightest Gross weight of a small Transit is about 2500kg (SWB with single leaf rear axle), so thats the nail in coffin.
Since when did they start using the term MAM instead of Gross weight? The goverenment using different terms to what manufacturers use (or ratings stamped on the V5 and chassis plate at that) doesn't help one bit.
Last edited by Shark Man; 06 June 2008 at 01:36 PM.
06 June 2008, 01:48 PM
#30
The only 924 was confiscated by the Stuttgart police and crushed. Id discount any thoughts about a Jag, last years and this years events were full of Jaguars and whilst they didnt all breakdown, they cost a fortune in fuel. My 944 wasnt ready for this years event, so I went in a Skoda (and didnt do a bad time around the Nordschleife either): itll be back next year though...
With regards to cost, I bought an honest 944 off a specialist/aquaintance for under £500, so Id be expecting a full MOT on a sub-£500 924.
Youd be extremely foolish if you were considering going without all of the required documents: I spent over an hour being inspected by the Germans and when they couldnt fault the car (three of the other four cars who followed James and myself out fo the site in Stuttgart had their vehicles confiscated/condemned), they spent a further 10 minutes checking my extinguisher, high vis, first aid kit, triangle, bulb kit, vehicle registration, MOT (which theyd ignored for an hour as the armed vehicle inspector crawled about under the damned car).....
Simon
With regards to cost, I bought an honest 944 off a specialist/aquaintance for under £500, so Id be expecting a full MOT on a sub-£500 924.
Youd be extremely foolish if you were considering going without all of the required documents: I spent over an hour being inspected by the Germans and when they couldnt fault the car (three of the other four cars who followed James and myself out fo the site in Stuttgart had their vehicles confiscated/condemned), they spent a further 10 minutes checking my extinguisher, high vis, first aid kit, triangle, bulb kit, vehicle registration, MOT (which theyd ignored for an hour as the armed vehicle inspector crawled about under the damned car).....
Simon
Damn Germans again, eh? What kind of stuff do they inspect? I was thinking of stripping the car out completely and then using it as a track day car here at home, but is that a big no-no in Germany? Obviously, I don't want to go through loads of expenses for the police to turn the car into a metal cube.
I don't much like the Jag idea anyway, as like you say there were loads of them last year (i wasn't there of course, but judging by the pics).
Cookstar, I don't worry about it as such, it's just getting the damn thing home in the first place without being arrested and having the car crushed (by the English police)