Snazy

at a roadside security check point...

Hmmm wonder what will happen next!

Martin2005

Did you hear Mugabe on the news yesterday, blaming the west (and the UK in particualr) for the disaster he has visited upon his country.

stilover

Yes, but we're fighting back though. We're taking his Knighthood away.

That'll show him !!

Snazy

Instead its a good excuse regarding the arrest and possible kidnap of the opposition leader.. "I was out of the country at the time"

As for the knighthood thing. I heard that when I was having my tattoo done on monday....God we are brave in the UK.

Mugabe was right about one thing though. "Brown is just a little dot"

The Zohan

Heard it time and time agian from this assclown - about time he was shot stright between the ears and replaced with someone not intent on lining thier and thier families pockets at the cost of the people, many of whom are dying or been killed.

the economy is fcuked and all because of RM!

The man is a ****, now flaunting the UN rules to attend a meeting so he can wave two fat fingers at the west and in particular Brown, whilst i applaud anyone giving Brown the 'V' sign Mugabwee needs to die and die soon!

stilover

Maybe the NOTW can get involved. Find a video of Mugabe in a **** suit ******** 5 prostitutes. He won't have a leg to stand on then.

Seriously though.
This is one country we do need to invade. I'd back Brown to exit from Iraq and send our troops to overthrow Mugabe.

Send in supplies and experienced personnel (farmers) to give Zimbabwe their own resources back. People are starving there. All because Mugabe kicked the experienced White farmer off their land

PeteBrant

Do we? I mean it would be incredibly shaky ground legally. I mean I bare the man no love at all, but, he is immensly popular in his own country (Garnering 43% of the vote versus 47% for Tvsangarai)

That not a basis for invasion.

THe UK, and the world, needs to put the pressure back on Mugabe .. "Ok, we'll help, put your country first, conceed to Tvsangarai and go into exile and we'll save your country" or words to that effect.

But really, the people that most need to apply pressure are African council and particualrly SOuth Africa, which is not happening at the moment.

stilover

I think if you asked the general man on the Zimbabwe street, if he'd like to keep Mugabe or have the UK/EU overthrow Mugabe installing a new Government, and bring an end to starvation and poverty, I think most would welcome the change.

Afterall technically Mugabe lost the election, but just decide not to adhere to the results.

I think most EU countries would back the UK if we went in. Other African countries may object however.

mrtheedge2u2

[QUOTE=PeteBrant;7918365]

THe UK, and the world, needs to put the pressure back on Mugabe .. "Ok, we'll help, put your country first, conceed to Tvsangarai and go into exile and we'll save your country" or words to that effect.

[QUOTE]

I agree with that but would add the little small print 'THe UK, and the world, needs to put the pressure back on Mugabe .. "Ok, we'll help, put your country first, conceed to Tvsangarai and go into exile and we'll save your country" or words to that effect......... 'and then once you are gone we will kill you anyway'

PeteBrant

Its "around" the 40 % mark. If it wasn;t so close, then Mugabe wouldn't be able to hamper the recounts and second ballots the way he did.

The MDC claimed they got just about over 50% of the vote - Do you think they would have claimed such a slim majority if they could have claimed 60 or 70 or 80%?


If we went in, we would spark a civil war. And the number one casualty in those wars are, by definition, civillians.

messiah

Our squadies can't do any worse than Mugabe henchmen - as long as we don't take the yanks in with us, the general population should remain unscathed... would agree that a surgical hit would be better though - someone tell Bono & Geldof to get their hands in their pocket to fork out for a Cleaner...

PeteBrant

I don't think we can take the risk. A large chunk of the population would be up in arms, and it might actually polarise the support of the entire nation in support of the hero Mugabe agains the tyrannical British.

The more I think about it, the more a British invasion of Zimbabwe is utterly unthinkable.

vindaloo

Sorry to pop the balloon of popular rhetoric but last time I looked Zim was in the middle of a lot of land, surrounded by ex-possessions of the "Racist anti-revolutionary colonialist oppressors".

Oh Christ, does that mean we have to take the helicopter view and parachute in a solution.

ScoobyWon't

Two men would do, a sniper and his spotter.

Or one man if you want MI5 to deal with it.

A quick hit where they are in and out that does not have a trace to the shooters origins and everyone is happy. Except Mugabe

baser999

iTrader: (2)

There's nothing in Zimbabwe worth invading for - no oil etc. Seems immaterial that millions of innocent people, including children, are being systematically murdered and starved to death. Fighting for humanitarian reasons seems to be alien to the rest of the civilised world and shamefully I have to admit this includes the UK 'led' by Brown and his predecessor Blair.

Dracoro

Sorry, but absolute rubbish.

c40% voted for him yes, but many only because they'd get beaten, thrown in jail etc. if they didn't. There a LOT of dodgy pressure from Mugabe and those he controls (i.e. army & police) against the population.

I suppose you believe that 99% wanted Saddam Hussein in power

I think a LOT of Zimbabwe people would love to get rid of Mugabe but dare not say it for fear of repercussions.

The ones that do actually support him (and mean it) tend to be those who have bought into all the propaganda that he feeds the population.

Snazy

Spot on !

Baser999, also spot on mate. Shameful!

PeteBrant

Its completely unquantifiable. You can't say how many of that 40% odd voted for what reason.
I'm glad you used Iraq/Saddam as an example. I mean there's a fantastic demonstration of invading a country without really thinking through the consequences.

messiah

The problem there has been that half the population think Saddam's "behaviour" is the acceptable norm, so once he was out of the way they're all fighting to be his replacement.

Not quite the same with Zimbabwe, the vast majority seem to side with the alternative to Mugabe but dare not admit it while he's still around.

PeteBrant

What basis do you have for this assumption?

stilover

Probably the fact that so many voted for the opposition.
I dare bet alot of people who did vote Mugabe, were pressurised by his police/army. You just have to see the news reports on some of the badly beaten people who dared vote against him.

Would you go to a polling station and vote for the opposition if you thought you'd be beaten/killed for doing so?

The best thing the rest of the world can do for Zimbabwe and it's people is to get rid of Mugabe. The Army will crumble. A few choice air strikes, the show of force via ground troops, will soon bring order.

Like I said in an earlier post. Most people in Zimbabwe would welcome the end of starvation and reccession. Not to mention the treat of being killed by the police/army for very little.

If there were Oil fields in Zimbabwe, you can bet your life the USA would be in there now. Shame they, and we, can't go in on humanity reasons.

PeteBrant

47% to 40% according to an independant recount.

The MDC have agreed to a second poll (which undoubtably will be abused by Mugabe) But the fact they have agreed to it in the firs tplace surely tells you something.

The fact remains that a large percentage of the population are loyal to Mugave - And will undoubtably fight if an invasion takes place
It won't. Dont you remember Somalia? Sierra Leone?

If you invade Zimbabwe you polarise opinion against you and behind Mugabe.

It would be civil war. We would be there for years, and with an Army stretched to the limit as it is.

It would do more harm than good. Political pressure is the way to go.

stilover

Come on Pete. You can't keep writing this dross. You know something needs to be done. It's inhumane what is happening there. Doing nothing will not help those who so desperately want/need help.

Diplomatic talks are pointless. Mugabe will never listen or give in to the EU. How much longer are you happy to see news reports on the suffering of the people of Zimbabwe at the hands of Mugabe.

Imagine yourself living there. Wouldn't you want help for another country. Zimbabwe was probably one of the richest self sufficient countries in Africa. The People thought they'd be better off with Mugabe in charge. Given the choice of what they had, and what they now have, most would probably want to go back to the way it was.

Iraq was so wrong on so many levels. Doing nothing about Mugabe is probably just as wrong.

vindaloo

He hasn't really had any political pressure applied to him though, has he.
The surrounding countries seem to be treating the situation with kid gloves and with the region's track record, I won't blame them.

Anyway, "food" is the new "oil", and Zim is prime arable land. What doesn't get eaten can be made into bio-fuels.

J.

stilover

But who's going to farm the land?
One of the reasons the country is starving is that they kicked all the farmers (who knew what they were doing) off their land, burned their houses and stole/smashed up all the equipment.
No farmers to grow crops = no food.
Zimbabwe is now heavely relient of food aid. Something they never had to worry about. You now need a wheelbarrow full of money just to buy a loaf of bread.