scrappydoo

Do named fathers have the right to obtain their childrens medical records if they arnt living in the same house as the mother and child, even though the mother is extremely obstructive?

Reason i ask is that the doctor carried out administering medication (certain injections) after a letter was written to him via said father (for many reasons) instructing him not to, and that if needs be it would be privately paid for. The doctor did not listen and the first the said father heard of it was when the obstructive mother contacted him and spitefully announced she had proceeded through with the medication against his wishes.

Said father is extremely annoyed now, any ideas?

regards

ps, please do not quote me as i will have to delete this eventually! thankyou

Dedrater

If you are not married to the mother of the child, you won't have automatic parental responsibility, even if you are living with the child's mother and pay all bills.


Children Act 1989
Children Act 1989 (c. 41)

CAB Advice Guide
Adviceguide from Citizens Advice

Lots more to read on Google.

PeteBrant

I would say the best thing to do is not to involve the child in petty squabbles and do the best thing for the child purely on medical grounds.

Either the Father or Mother needs to stop acting so selfishly and remember who is actually important in the situation.

If, it is the MMR jab that has caused the problem, then whoever is advoctaing not having the MMR jab needs to realise the risk they are
placing on thier child and read up on the subject. Especially the bit where the bloke that postualted the link between Autism and the MMR jab admits he was talking absolute ****e.

scrappydoo

hey guys, thankyou for the comments thus far. much appreciated for digging out that info dedrater.
well the name of the father is on the certificate and the injections in question are that of the MMR vaccine. The father hasnt got a problem with the MMR per say but wanted them administered seperatly in a cleaner way than the doctor would of given them. Much research has been done on this triple jab and the companies involved and their past terrible history and the father did not want to overload the childs immune system with a triple hit all in one go, theres no need for it and has resulted in many deaths and illnesses almost within a 5 minute time window of it being administered, it was purely precautionary and there was nothing wrong with that. The father wanted a private highly recommended doctor administering them over a period of time to allow for the impact on the child. As a chemist there is not one reason for allowing such a hit on a under developed baby. Back in our days we had about 5 injections, now its over 30+ for todays person in question. Its absolutely ridiculous and theres no long studies on it at all and dont get me started on the chemicals in these drugs. No wonder the doctor wouldn't give a breakdown list of what they contained.

Anyway im loosing focus here.. The injections have been given (allegedly) and the doctor didn't listen to the fathers objections and didnt pay any attention to them what so ever and just wondered if the childs records were easy to get hold of to check whether they have in fact been given so any action can be considered and pursued??

john banks

The father would probably do everyone a favour including himself if he let this issue drop. I doubt the child will benefit from the vindictiveness in the name of health.

Qualifications to comment:
- Child of acrimonious marital split that ruined my childhood
- GP who has his time wasted by getting caught in the middle of this sort of nonsense

LET IT GO!

PeteBrant

All the medical evidence points to the MMR jab being ther safest most effectvie and reliable way to immunise your child.

I'm quite pleased the GP ignored the Father, who is obviously more concerned about winning a power struggle than the health of his child.

john banks

When I was a new GP I used to try to engage parents on the topic of MMR to carefully present them with the evidence. It rarely convinced because it was rarely understood. Many couldn't grasp the statistics involved despite recycling poor arguments from the internet. I wasted a lot of time and effort trying to involve parents in the decision. It was rarely appreciated and would be an infurating waste of time that sick patients could have benefited from. Now, I just give my advice when the issue comes up (it doesn't much now because the arguments against are no longer fashionable) knowing that I am discharging my duty to advise and do not enter into fruitless debate. I'm not contracted to do that, and I'm not going to go along with unlicensed prescribing or recommendations when there is a legally backed up and safe standard option. I've got better things to do and so have the parents.

If I had a request from a father for notes in this situation it would get me straight onto my legal team and I'd be really grateful for you wasting my time. MMR and warring parents, what a great combo!

Leslie

As a matter of interest John, as an expert, is it wise to overload a very young child's system with a triple immunisation, or would it be safer for that child if the injections were given singly.

We realise of course that the authorities don't want to lose money on the stocks of the triple vaccine that they have. That will be most important to them.

Les

PeteBrant

Does the MMR jab "overload" it, then?

Almost all the experts agree the MMR jab is the safest most effective way of immunising your child.

As a result of scaremongering there are hundreds of children not immunised and vulnerable to a mass outbreak to, say, measles.

john banks

It was became fashionable to give single vaccines over 10 years ago with a number of private companies popping up, triple vaccine stocks will be much newer. The authorities seem to have no problem with stock destruction when even a minor or potential issue arises, recalls are frequent.

My concern beyond overloading is delays or incomplete immunisation. The schedule is now considerable and takes considerable work to chase up accidental rather than conscientious defaulters as it is. I've not seen any convincing evidence of a problem with overloading, antigen exposure in the environment is massive for a child anyway, and I'd much rather they came across a killed, attenuated or protein part of a pathogen on the end of my needle than they came across the real thing.

Immunisation and sanitation are the greatest contributors to child health possible at present and have been hard won. Now we see resurgence of diseases that were all but eradicated, and that I (and many doctors) lack the firsthand experience to diagnose. Herd immunity is crucial in many of these diseases and I would support legislation to make full immunisation compulsory for entry to state schools.

Leslie

Thanks for that answer John. I just wanted to hear the the opinion of someone at the sharp end. Goes a long way to clear up a few questions in my mind anyway.

None of these immunisations were available when I was a child and we all had to get our immunities the hard way. It wasn't very nice and I remember a period of my life when I was always feeling ill with something or other. All we got was vaccination against Smallpox and Polio then. Better than nothing though of course.

Les

mrs_b4

I am on the other end of mmr and the damage it causes my son was given the triple jab in 1992 he was extremely unwell afterward's not able to stand talk and covered in a rash.
Within three month's of this jab my son went from a normal 18month old to a different child with a life long amount of problem's to face.
He was diagnosed with autism and has had other hurdles to manage since then.
It affected us as a family so much that when our daughter was born in1999 we made the decision for her not to have mmr rightly or wrongly it was the only decision we could take,we could not take that risk again with no guarentee's.
Remember it took many year's before the goverment admitted thalidomide caused defect's to million's of children.
Even Cherie Blair would not confirm if her son had received the triple shot when her husband was the one advising all parent's to vaccinate their children.
There are two sides to every story I would never deter anyone from the mmr but we all have the right to chose

OllyK

Providing you're choosing an alternative I'd agree. If you're going with no vaccination, you're potentially affecting many other people as well. Have a read up on "Herd Resistance".

I'd also be interested to see any medical studies you can find that find a link between MMR and autism that haven't been discredited. AFAIK, there are none.

john banks

I have patients living with the consequences of rubella and measles from the 1960s. We forget how horrendous these diseases can be.

john banks

You probably didn't see the congenital rubella cases since they would not likely have been in mainstream education?

It would be best not to make public health decisions on the basis of whether or not your friends had serious complications?

Choice is great if it is well informed.

scrappydoo

will comment on all this in abit and break it all down but for the time being...

John can you give us a breakdown of what is contained within these injections please fella?

john banks

Immunisation - Immunisation schedule

scrappydoo

thanks John but i meant the actual chemicals used in each vaccination.???

PeteBrant

Why?


If the medical establishment is telling you that the safest, most effective, reliable and guaranteed way of immunising your child is to use the MMR jab, why do you think you know better?

If a child breaks an arm, Do you question the logic of putting it in plaster?

PeteBrant

Of course cost is an issue - But there is also the period inbetween the single jabs where the child is vulnerbale to a given disease.

Single vaccines mean that:

-six separate injections have to be given over a long period of time;

-there would be a fall in vaccine coverage as children may not complete the course of injections;

-children who complete the course are left without protection in the gaps between injections;

-babies may catch the disease from their older brothers and sisters who are unprotected between the separate injections;

-children who cannot have the MMR vaccine, such as those having treatment for cancer, would be more exposed to infection;

-pregant women will be at a greater risk of rubella infection from their own unprotected children and the children of their friends.


Every single medical body advocates the MMR jab as being the best solution. I can see no reason at all why you would put your child at risk and go for the signle jabs option.

When it comes to health issue, surely you have to trust the professionals.

john banks

Here you go...

john banks

This is where google falls down - it doesn't give you the background to understand what you are reading. Do you appreciate that we're not injecting the entire growth medium but traces of the growth medium remain? Would you rather the growth medium didn't contain neomycin and the final product contained bacteria? What lab experience do you have with growth mediums? Do you have any undergraduate training in microbiology? Did you appreciate that 25mcg of neomycin is about one thousandth of the dose of a comparable aminoglycoside that would be given to a child of the age getting MMR?

This is why these arguments are fruitless!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Inded, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Joe public simply does not have the requiste knowledge to make an informed choice on this matter. Best to defer to the experts! AFAIK the concensus within the medical community is that the MMR jab is the safest way to go.

Ns04

scrappydoo

john
are you still a practicing General Practitioner?

The vast majority of these vaccines contain toxic substances such as mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde . We are pumping these chemicals into babies whose immune systems are far from developed and arnt fully understood. Why dont the Pharmaceutical companies show these chemicals as present in half their literature, im confused?

I have read of cases where 100% of children in a school were immunised against measles and an outbreak actually occurred. how does that work?

Tbh i cant really be bothered to type out a whole list of questioning reasons and facts as it will only fall on deaf years imo as there seems to be an air of arrogance with doctors these days and they seem to view any sort of questioning from a parent as a threat, ive seen it time and time again.. I understand that doctors have worked long and hard to get where they are and have to follow certain guildlines set out by the NHS otherwise they will loose their jobs. Im sorry but i question everything especially that which goes into my children or others.
My original question about obtaining records still hasnt been answered however!


>>[...fetal bovine serum] <<
>>[WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts]<<
so they are injecting aborted calf cells and aborted foetal cells in other words? good God!

Anyway what about BSE dangers and auto-immunity?

It wasnt long ago my microbiologist was telling me how we still haven't developed full screening techniques to screen animal material for half the pathogens out there, yet the medical profession still likes to pump this DNA into our babies not knowing how it will effect them or how it might integrate into their DNA.

anyway i dont really want to get into it all as theres so much counter evidence and studies to make alot of people sit up and take note against these jabs. I think the woman above whose child sadly had adverse effects says it all really.

Im sorry but if my mother had listened to a doctor when i was little i wouldnt be here right now so dam right im questioning them.

scrappydoo

I find these quotes slightly un-nerving!...Just a quick few..

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good."---Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist, US FDA

"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that's never used."--Dr James A Shannon, US National Institutes of Health.

"It now transpires that during the Clinical Trials children did in fact suffer severe and irreversible brain damage as a result of the Pertussis Vaccine and accepted as such by Medical Experts appointed by the Department of Health........It is now an established fact that the present figure now stands at over 900 which is an absolute disgrace in a civilised country."--M Wain

AT LEAST 26 families claim their children died as a result of the controversial measles, mumps and rubella jab, the Sunday Express can reveal. In some cases the Government has awarded parents up to £100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage Payment Act. In others, post mortem reports concluded the jab was the most likely cause of death. Despite this, the Department of Health insists no child has ever died from MMR."--Media

PeteBrant
this quote may answer your theory regarding the guy who was talking complete *****e..
"Professor David Elliman, (Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children and in Islington Primary Care Trust). whose study said fears of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism were unfounded, admitted that he and Dr Helen Bedford had been given money by drugs giants SmithKline Beecham and Pasteur Merieux Merck Sharp & Dohme. Their report, MMR Vaccine - Worries Are Not Justified, is published in the current issue of the medical journal Archives of Disease in Childhood, and was used by the government to reiterate its view that the vaccine is safe."--Media

"Tetanus is a very rare disease in developed countries: there are only about 12 cases of tetanus per year in Australia, and half of those who got it were vaccinated."---Viera Scheibner

Switzerland was affected by a mumps epidemic from Autumn 1999 until Spring 2000. The Swiss Federal Office for Health (BAG) eventually admitted, upon the pressure of the medical profession, that more than 75% of those who contracted Mumps had been fully up to date with their vaccinations." ----Does systematic Vaccination give health to people?------Anita Petek-Dimmer

I think this guy talks alot of sense and many GP's would do well to listen to him instead of handing out drugs like smarties etc etc..

"As a practicing physician for over fifty years, I have reached three basic conclusions as to the cause and cure of disease. This book is about those conclusions.
The first is that the primary cause of disease is not germs. Rather, I believe that disease is caused by a toxemia which results in cellular impairment and breakdown, thus paving the way for the multiplication and onslaught of germs.
My second conclusion is that in almost all cases the use of drugs in treating patients is harmful. Drugs often cause serious side effects, and sometimes even create new diseases. The dubious benefits they afford the patient are at best temporary. Yet the number of drugs on the market increases geometrically every year as each chemical firm develops its own variation of the compounds. The physician is indeed rare who can be completely aware of the potential danger from the side effects of all of these drugs.
My third conclusion is that disease can be cured through the proper use of correct foods. This Statement may sound deceptively simple, but I have arrived at it only after intensive study of a highly complex subject: colloid and endocrine chemistry.
My conclusions are based on experimental and observational results, gathered through years of successfully treating patients. Occasionally I have resorted to the use of drugs in emergency situations, but those times have been rare. Instead, I have sought to prescribe for my patients' illnesses antidotes which Nature has placed at their disposal. "---Bieler, Henry G., M.D. (1965). Food Is Your Best Medicine. Soil and Health Library

john banks

I'm still working as GP, would it discredit me if I didn't? Because I do does it mean anything except that I commented in your post in a straightforward manner intending to help you to avoid causing far more trouble that you hope to prevent? Just say if you don't want to hear any more opposing views and I will not comment further.

Does MMR-II contain mercury or formaldehyde?

Do you understand herd immunity?

Do you have another way of culturing viruses? Would you rather we just had epidemics of serious diseases rather than use taxpayers' money as efficiently and safely as possible to avoid them? How many people have suffered with CJD compared to measles and rubella?

Your second post is full of interesting opinions.

In terms of obtaining records, you've already been given advice. If you do want to pursue this, write to the GP stating the child's details, your details, your relation to the child and the nature of your query. You will not likely get a quick answer unless the cirumstances are straightforward as this is a potential legal minefield. I again recommend letting it drop though.