dsmith

Have personally never understood how an optical lead can sound different to a coax or 2 coax lead can sound differentto each other for digital music

Its digital - a stream of 1s and 0s. so long as the cable is good enought to pass the digital stream without introducing so much noise that the clocking and data etc lose data (i.e. no wet string) it will be the same music going in at one end as comes out the other.

As for introducing more stage - fair comment IF it was an anlogue signal - but its not. You could have 100 conversions and the signal would be the same. Its is already converted from whatever reads it from the disc (laser is optical ?) into an electrical signal through an appropriate transciever for coax - so why not though a diff transciever into optical ?.

As for the suggestion (which I read on some hi-fi bbs) that quality of optical cable could change the "tone" - well sorry but cant see it.

If that were true the data comms industry which runs data at far far higher bit rates and frequencies would have a far greater range of fibre cables available.

Genuinely interested in any plausible sounding technical explanation

Deano[/b]

[Edited by dsmith - 2/1/2002 12:03:31 AM]

Tal

Time for an upgrade me thinks my faithfull sony is 15 years old (component system (MHC-3600)) cd has optical out so may still use it.

Going to listen to this afternoon --

Denon AV1802 AMP - £340

Mission Cinema 7 speaker pack (773e fronts 77c1 centre 70ds bipolars rears) - £380

Toshiba sd210 (multi region) £180

Going to use my existing Sony 28" wide screen Trinitron as screen for now

Anyone got any comments on the above system

Will it sound good ?

is it musical as it will play my music as well

Whats your system

My budgets about £1K anything else I should listen to ??

might also add a sub at some point ??


Thanks

Tal


PS whats component video ?? and progressive scan ??


Edited to add prices from Richer sounds

[Edited by Tal - 1/26/2002 11:10:01 AM]

MarkWRX

I can recommend the Missions, Ive had mine about 2 years

I have 771e fronts, 77c1 centre and 77ds rears with a Yamaha Sub, and they were the best I heard (Total about £900 with stands)

I also have a Yamaha DVD and Amp which are no longer current but would recommend both Yamaha and Denon as good kit.

Would definately advise saving some money for good quality speaker cable and digital interconnects as it does make a difference.

All the best

Mark

[Edited by MarkWRX - 1/26/2002 11:22:54 AM]

RB170

Tal

Don't get a sub at some point....GET ONE NOW!
You wouldn't believe how much you miss when you don't have a sub

Some of the low frequency sounds you don't get are awesome.

Mike

Pete Croney

The Missions will sound the nuts off any good amp. And the Denon is good. I bought the Yamaha RXV800 amp, as it does 6.1. There aren't many films in 6.1/ES yet, but I watched Rush Hour2 last weekend (which is) and the sound was incredible. It also has lots of inputs (optical and co-ax) and S-video out. About £40 dearer than the Denon.

I got Mission FS2AV speakers(flat things). I was sceptical of the sound depth with flat speakers, but they are amazing. Apart from the sound, they come in a grey colour (so match the TV) and very sexy floor stands.

I haven't set up the video i/o yet, as my wife has informed me that there are enough wires back there already

Get some top quality leads too and make sure you set the DVD (and your Sky box) to RGB out. The picture improvement is so good, so won't watch terrestrial TV through an aerial again.

I run my sound feeds through opticals.

I think the most important thing is to decide a budget, buy a couple of mags to read the reviews and then visit some shops that can sound test all of your shortlist.

One thing is certain, you will not believe what a music CD can sound like until you hear it through your new DVD/amp/speakers.

paulr

Would defo agree about the Denon.I'm also in the process of getting a set-up and i'm going for Denon.If you want a small speaker package Energy are is good,but expensive.
For more reviews check out

http://www.audioreview.com/

dsmith

Mission 773e Fronts, 77c1 Centre, 771e rears, Sony STRDB940 Amp, Sony 536 DVD, Sony KV32-FX60 32" TV.

I love the missions - I had the 771s at the front at fors (with small surrounds). The 773e definately have a bit more depth. Sound great and look very nice in the lounge (important for wife acceptance).

As has been said - dont skimp on cables - especially for the pictures. I have Sky on RGB, DVD on S-Video and Video on std composite. I can barely watch the video these days

I never had a great film collection on video because it just didn't seem worth it. The DVD collection is growing alarmingly though.

The whole system is about to cost me lot of money because I need a bigger detached house so I can enjoy it without waiting for the neigbours to go out

Deano

SecretAgentMan

Missions along with the Denon will be the danglies.

Pete, you're the last one I expected to be into home theatre stuff!!!

/J

Denon AVC-A1SE
Paradigm Speakers (7 of 'em )
Sony VPL-HS1 Proj

SecretAgentMan

Look here for a bit of info on progressive scan http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

And "component video" is a way of delivering the signal to the tellie, proj or whatever, it's a standard just as RGB, S-Video and Composite. It's supposed to be THE best method...but RGB through a SCART will work good enough.



/J

SiCotty

Pete, try T2 Ultimate Edition in DTS-ES

I've got a Yamaha AX620 which is very good and a set of Energy Take5.2 speakers which for their size pack a serious punch. Only thing to remeber is the speaker cable and the interconnects. Like Pete said a good scart cable will do wonders for picture quaility on the TV. I spent an extra £250 on cables but the difference it makes is worth it.

The best disc I've found so far for testing the surround effect is the start of seven when it's raining, superb.

Now looking at 36" TV and possible the same AMP as pete as I want the full 6.1 sound now (three speakers at the back instead of two)

Si

[Edited by SiCotty - 1/26/2002 1:28:00 PM]

SecretAgentMan

I've found "The Haunting" in R1 DTS-ES to be abt the most intensive experience yet - soundwise...

/J

Tal

Right been for a listen and I am VERY impressed the Matrix sounded absolutly fantastic

As did some audio stuff (Mark Knophfler and Moterhead (quite a range !!!))

going to listen to some KEF stuff next but I think I am sold on the missions / denon / Toshiba (that was a bit of a star to !!)


Tal

Bajie

What about B&W speakers?
I'm not saying they are better [or worse] than the Missions but do give their speakers an airing when you audition the kit BEFORE you buy.

Edited as I'm a fool who didn't read the post above!
SillyBajielearntoreadSillyBajielearntoreadSillyBaj ielearntoread



[Edited by Bajie - 1/26/2002 7:54:17 PM]

druddle

I bought the Denon amp a month or so ago. I was also going to buy the Mission Cinema 72 package, but Richer Sounds advised i listened to the Mordaunt Short 90x series. The treble is alot clearer i thought, and they do have some low end rumble too !!

Combined with either Eltax or Boston Accoustics at the back, it sounds awesome in my front room. Fast & The Furious sounded mental last night in DTS surround.

The Yamaha amp Pete mentioned is rated very highly like the Denon, but i got the Denon as the Yamaha wasnt available.

One thing to note, dont underestimate the cost of good cables. I got biwire speaker cables for the fronts (3), flat cables for the rears that go under the carpet and decent SCART and digital cables for the amp/DVD/TV connections. Cost around 150 quid in total !

DAve

C h a z

Tal
good place for your cable and such.
http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/

Pete Croney

Meant to come back to this one sooner.

LOL at S.A.M. I am pretty shocked myself M8 Start of December I just had a 4:3 tv.

[Makes note to self to get T2 UE along with Matrix SE.]

Anyway, back to connections...

None of my stuff has Component video (except the video controller in the amp). My tv is a Sony KV36FS70S, what the hell runs Component video in?

I found this useful http://212.250.57.233/pro_connectivi...=VIDEO+%26+DVD

Latest great sound moments... the helicopter in Vertical Limit. I'm sure I could hear the blade tips moving the whole 360deg around me and the avalanche re-arranged furniture throughout the whole house

Pete Croney

Forgot...

Jerry, I don't like horror movies so I may skip the Haunting

GavinP

Component video is mainly used for projectors and plasma - some Toshiba TVs being the notable exception.

RGB will work best otherwise but don't skimp on cables - the QED Squart is very good (about £50). Ixos do some very good cables too.

I have one of the video-only Squarts connected to my 36" Panasonic from the DVD player and it does make a big difference. As the sound is not being used by the TV, the cable doesn't bother carrying it.

Don't neglect the mains power with your setup - I used a single RFI/Surge filter adapter from Homebase for £20 (between the DVD player plug and the wall socket) which visibly improved the TV picture!

A lot of info on hi-fi and mains here: http://www.russandrews.com/downloads.html

The booklet "The Power and the Glory" is an interesting read....

Thanks

Gavin

[Edited by GavinP - 1/30/2002 5:49:19 PM]

Pete Croney

Gavin

I've got a surge filter on the spur which supplies my lot (all 9 plugs!!) and QED cables.

Another Q... do you think optical or co-ax is better for carrying the sound? I've read mixed opinions. I'm running optical at the mo and have no complaints, but am always willing to seek out the last few % of something.

joni

Received wisdom says co-ax has the edge

SecretAgentMan

Pete>>Almost everyone I've been talking to swears by the decent coax cables for the digital sound.

Don't like horror flicks...wtf?

Another must have is the R1 DTS-version of Pearl Harbor...S T U N N I N G
Se7ven as mentioned is an old goldie...and with the latest DTS-ES it made me smile.

/J - deep into season 2 of Sopranos on DVD

stevem2k

'Equipment Check Discs Corner'

U571 (DTS) - bass check on depth charge scenes
Matrix (5.1) - treble check on lobby scene
Saving Private Ryan (DTS) - L/R level balancing

Must-own's in my opinion.

Steve

[Edited by stevem2k - 1/30/2002 10:34:34 PM]

Tim Taylor

Try 'The Fast and the Furious' R1 DTS. The racing scenes sound the dog's danglies Also the pod race in Star Wars Ep.1 - THX sound...SWEET

Tim

Pete Croney

Steve, yep forgot about U571. Matrix lobby... what about the bomb in the lift then? Structural damage for the viewer too

Tim, how much for a pair of Co-ax cables then? (Tim works at Hi Spek and got me started on all this )

GavinP

Co-axial is supposedly better because the signal from CD or DVD is read in electrical format. Optical converts the signal into light at both ends - so adds two additional stages to the process.

Re the mains, its worth bearing in mind that other components create electrical noise as well - I have an eight-way surge protected strip and an additional single one for the DVD player - try it - you will be surprised. I think Bajie(?) tried it on his setup and noticed a difference as well ?

I was sceptical after reading the Russ Andrews booklet but worse-case, you can use the £20 surge protector on your PC/answering machine/fax etc if you can't see any changes....

The "T2 Ultimate" disk is the best produced disk I have IMHO (of approx 350 collected over 3 years) - although the "Superbit" ones are also very good:

http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page...R1&title=96404

I have a new player and receiver on order: Pioneer 646A (cheap DVD-A) and a Marantz SR5200 (DTS-ES, Prologic 2 - to be used as a preamp) - awaiting impending delivery!

Thanks

Gavin

Rob D

The Denon and Missions are a good mix.
The set-up I have is Mission 775e (fronts), Mission 77C1 (centre), Mission 771 (rears), Denon 3802 AV Amp, Toshiba 2190 DVD Player and finally a Toshiba 32" 100hz Widescreen TV.

Music off the Denon is also very good, not as good as a dedicated music amp but not far off.

Point about cables is very true, do not scrimp on them!!

I must say I had a friend come over to my home and try his Sony projector, all I can say is awesome. This thing was projecting onto a red wall at 150" diag and the picture quality was phenomenal (he was still awaiting on his screen to arrive btw).
My point being if your thinking about a projection TV forget about it, front projectors are the way forward

Cheers,

Rob.


[Edited by Rob D - 1/31/2002 3:18:56 PM]

Tim Taylor

Don't worry Pete, I can sort you out with some co-ax

You can use the spare optical for the PS2

Tim

nevr

Whatever set up you decide on make sure you can get a Home audition. so you can choose the best det up for your room
I found the Kef q with a rel sub was best for my room out of those i tried, Yamaha amp with sony Dvd and sony 32" TV

[Edited by nevr - 1/31/2002 11:52:45 PM]

Pete Croney

Its a valid argument.

I assumed optical would be better as there was absolutely no possibility of the link picking up any noise.

AlexM

Digital audio is very critical in terms of the time domain.

Electrical to optical conversion introduces an deterioration in the slew rate of the pulses, which in turn increases jitter which introduces all sorts or nasty digital distortion.

Coaxial connection line drivers generally increase jitter less than optical converters, hence they tend to sound a little better.

Your pulses should be as 'square' as possible, and clocked very accurately with reference to the source to reduce jitter to an absolute minimum.

Cheers,

Alex