India: what a mess!
20 March 2008, 05:14 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northants. 22B sold, as-new Lotus Omega instead.
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
India: what a mess!
Just got back from a 10 day business trip to various parts of India. Even genuine large businesses like we visited were paying their machine operators less than 100 quid per month! The hotel taxi drivers were only getting half of that! The infrastructure is hopeless. The city traffic is usually gridlocked and the pollution makes you puke. The poverty is everywhere: even the much vaunted financial and film capital of Bombay is an overpopulated (20 million) black hole, which grinds to a halt for most of the day. Frankly the management of Manufacturers in the West should be ashamed of themselves for being so desperate to line their pockets by cutting the costs of their products by getting them made over there and doing our own folk out of jobs.
20 March 2008, 06:00 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I took my 14 and 18 year old kids to India, after 12 years of their last visit to the place. They were horrified with the traffic, the layout of the country, and the culture too. But they did like the family, friends and foods.
India is a country you are either gonna love or loathe, simple as. Many Europians come back singing praises of the place and keep going back there; which surprises me. But may be, they seem to look at something else among all that mess that is so apparent over there.
India is a country you are either gonna love or loathe, simple as. Many Europians come back singing praises of the place and keep going back there; which surprises me. But may be, they seem to look at something else among all that mess that is so apparent over there.
20 March 2008, 06:28 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The comments are a little silly to be honest.
'There is poverty everywhere' Waht did you expect? Its a poor country with something like 200 million living below the poverty line
'Paid less tha $100/ month' so what? You can have a meal for 50 cents
'infrastructure is awful' Again, what did you expect from a country thats only had independance for approx 50 years and has only really reformed its economy in about the last 20 years.
Your observations on its poverty, pollution etc are more or less correct, but your reaction is a bit immature.
BTW talking about poor infrastructure, have you ever used the London Underground or Heathrow airport?
'There is poverty everywhere' Waht did you expect? Its a poor country with something like 200 million living below the poverty line
'Paid less tha $100/ month' so what? You can have a meal for 50 cents
'infrastructure is awful' Again, what did you expect from a country thats only had independance for approx 50 years and has only really reformed its economy in about the last 20 years.
Your observations on its poverty, pollution etc are more or less correct, but your reaction is a bit immature.
BTW talking about poor infrastructure, have you ever used the London Underground or Heathrow airport?
20 March 2008, 06:33 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure Goa is a let down, I avoided it because its full of drugged up Europeans (some of whom allow their 15 year old daughters to roam around alone in bars at 4 in the morning)
20 March 2008, 06:55 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northants. 22B sold, as-new Lotus Omega instead.
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The comments are a little silly to be honest.
'There is poverty everywhere' Waht did you expect? Its a poor country with something like 200 million living below the poverty line
'Paid less tha $100/ month' so what? You can have a meal for 50 cents
'infrastructure is awful' Again, what did you expect from a country thats only had independance for approx 50 years and has only really reformed its economy in about the last 20 years.
Your observations on its poverty, pollution etc are more or less correct, but your reaction is a bit immature.
BTW talking about poor infrastructure, have you ever used the London Underground or Heathrow airport?
'There is poverty everywhere' Waht did you expect? Its a poor country with something like 200 million living below the poverty line
'Paid less tha $100/ month' so what? You can have a meal for 50 cents
'infrastructure is awful' Again, what did you expect from a country thats only had independance for approx 50 years and has only really reformed its economy in about the last 20 years.
Your observations on its poverty, pollution etc are more or less correct, but your reaction is a bit immature.
BTW talking about poor infrastructure, have you ever used the London Underground or Heathrow airport?
A meal for 50 cents? Maybe, but other commodity stuff like petrol isn't that much cheaper than in Europe.
Immature? As a 37 year old, I haven't been accused of that for a while!
Underground/Heathrow: both bloody awful! I used them on my return yesterday.
Trending Topics
20 March 2008, 06:57 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 709
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just been back to India for 3 weeks. I spent most of the time with my son and his Indian wife and my grand daughter. They live in Pune, which is a booming city about 100 miles SE of Bombay.
I keep going back to India. I love it. It's a mad chaotic anarchic place. And the people are optimistic. They aren't moaning all the time. It's a 50 year old democracy of sorts that works even with a population of over 1 billion.
To understand the poverty, you have to understand the shadow that the caste sytem still casts on Indian life. A lot of the Hindu politicians have this idealised view of village life in India. To them it is what makes India what it is. To some extent that is true, but it won't bring gainful employment to the people who live in these villages. Just handing out subsidies to preserve this rural way of life doesn't do much for most of the inhabitants. Much of this money ends up in the hands of the 'go-betweens' between government and the farmers.
If anyone is interested in modern India I recommend they read "In Spite of the Gods: The Strange Rise of Modern India" by Edward Luce.
www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/books/17grim.html
India's Growth Paradox - TIME
These reviews give you a hint of what it's all about.
Anyway there's so much more to India than the slums of the big cities. It's more than one country. In reality it's a number of countries and cultures and religions all co-existing on the Sub-Continent.
All in all I find the experience of being in India and how the Indians cope with their lot humbling. They are so positive about their future.
I keep going back to India. I love it. It's a mad chaotic anarchic place. And the people are optimistic. They aren't moaning all the time. It's a 50 year old democracy of sorts that works even with a population of over 1 billion.
To understand the poverty, you have to understand the shadow that the caste sytem still casts on Indian life. A lot of the Hindu politicians have this idealised view of village life in India. To them it is what makes India what it is. To some extent that is true, but it won't bring gainful employment to the people who live in these villages. Just handing out subsidies to preserve this rural way of life doesn't do much for most of the inhabitants. Much of this money ends up in the hands of the 'go-betweens' between government and the farmers.
If anyone is interested in modern India I recommend they read "In Spite of the Gods: The Strange Rise of Modern India" by Edward Luce.
www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/books/17grim.html
India's Growth Paradox - TIME
These reviews give you a hint of what it's all about.
Anyway there's so much more to India than the slums of the big cities. It's more than one country. In reality it's a number of countries and cultures and religions all co-existing on the Sub-Continent.
All in all I find the experience of being in India and how the Indians cope with their lot humbling. They are so positive about their future.
20 March 2008, 07:03 PM
#9
Having travelled to quite a few countries in recent years I must say I loved travelling around India. There are times it can bring you close to tears, but wow, what a place to visit - so diverse. You can be in the Himalayas one day and sat in front of the Taj Mahal the next - both of which are truely majestic.
Not the place to visit if you are used to Hilton type holidays....
Not the place to visit if you are used to Hilton type holidays....
20 March 2008, 10:39 PM
#10
Having travelled to quite a few countries in recent years I must say I loved travelling around India. There are times it can bring you close to tears, but wow, what a place to visit - so diverse. You can be in the Himalayas one day and sat in front of the Taj Mahal the next - both of which are truely majestic.
Not the place to visit if you are used to Hilton type holidays....
Not the place to visit if you are used to Hilton type holidays....
There's nowt special about the Hilton chain
20 March 2008, 11:30 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brecon
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I took my 14 and 18 year old kids to India, after 12 years of their last visit to the place. They were horrified with the traffic, the layout of the country, and the culture too. But they did like the family, friends and foods.
India is a country you are either gonna love or loathe, simple as. Many Europians come back singing praises of the place and keep going back there; which surprises me. But may be, they seem to look at something else among all that mess that is so apparent over there.
India is a country you are either gonna love or loathe, simple as. Many Europians come back singing praises of the place and keep going back there; which surprises me. But may be, they seem to look at something else among all that mess that is so apparent over there.
21 March 2008, 12:25 AM
#13
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 52 Festive Road
Posts: 28,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got back from a 10 day business trip to various parts of India. Even genuine large businesses like we visited were paying their machine operators less than 100 quid per month! The hotel taxi drivers were only getting half of that! The infrastructure is hopeless. The city traffic is usually gridlocked and the pollution makes you puke. The poverty is everywhere: even the much vaunted financial and film capital of Bombay is an overpopulated (20 million) black hole, which grinds to a halt for most of the day. Frankly the management of Manufacturers in the West should be ashamed of themselves for being so desperate to line their pockets by cutting the costs of their products by getting them made over there and doing our own folk out of jobs.
21 March 2008, 06:16 AM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brecon
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
21 March 2008, 10:13 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With population estimated at 1.1 - 1.3 billion I would say that more than 200 million are below the poverty line.
A meal for 50 cents? Maybe, but other commodity stuff like petrol isn't that much cheaper than in Europe.
Immature? As a 37 year old, I haven't been accused of that for a while!
Underground/Heathrow: both bloody awful! I used them on my return yesterday.
A meal for 50 cents? Maybe, but other commodity stuff like petrol isn't that much cheaper than in Europe.
Immature? As a 37 year old, I haven't been accused of that for a while!
Underground/Heathrow: both bloody awful! I used them on my return yesterday.
Turbo2, age does not equal maturity
Petrol maybe expensive, but then most Indians don't have cars!
$100/month is a living wage in India so whats your problem with it? Didn't they take enough tea breaks and sick days?
I'm just not quite sure what you expected from what was/is a thirld world country that was split apart 50 years ago and is going through its version of the industrial age.
21 March 2008, 10:40 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't been to India, but it does interest me. It is afterall the world's largest democracy
How significant have the changes over the past 20 years been ? What proportion of the population has a decent standard of living ? Do they dislike the Brits due to their imperial past ?
How significant have the changes over the past 20 years been ? What proportion of the population has a decent standard of living ? Do they dislike the Brits due to their imperial past ?
21 March 2008, 10:49 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Milton Keynes it most definitely aint, but I know where I'd rather be forced to live!
I took my 3 yr old daughter there for a wedding last yr. They said I was mad - but we had an amazing time. Saw Jaipur and the Taj too - absolutely amazing. Lovely warm, friendly and curious people - even many of the poorest. Amazing experience and one that hopeful will mean my daughter favours proper travel over US chain hotel isolation when she grows up.
D
I took my 3 yr old daughter there for a wedding last yr. They said I was mad - but we had an amazing time. Saw Jaipur and the Taj too - absolutely amazing. Lovely warm, friendly and curious people - even many of the poorest. Amazing experience and one that hopeful will mean my daughter favours proper travel over US chain hotel isolation when she grows up.
D
21 March 2008, 12:06 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Surrey/London borders.
Posts: 8,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL. Drove through there at 5am the other day. Streets littered with Eastern Europeans waiting to go potato picking.
I went to Bangalore a few years ago. Had the ****s for the whole 2 wks despite being careul what I ate - IE no meat as their hygiene standards don't seem to matter.
We all clubbed in and gave a waiter all our loose change before we left and apprantly it worked out to 3 months' wages. The bloke sobbed with joy, just before being beaten up by the other waiters who were jealous.
Awful poverty. It would do all the whingers on here moaning about paying a bit extra for a litre of fuel for their 20,30,40K cars good to see a real **** hole instead of going on about how they hate this country.
I went to Bangalore a few years ago. Had the ****s for the whole 2 wks despite being careul what I ate - IE no meat as their hygiene standards don't seem to matter.
We all clubbed in and gave a waiter all our loose change before we left and apprantly it worked out to 3 months' wages. The bloke sobbed with joy, just before being beaten up by the other waiters who were jealous.
Awful poverty. It would do all the whingers on here moaning about paying a bit extra for a litre of fuel for their 20,30,40K cars good to see a real **** hole instead of going on about how they hate this country.
21 March 2008, 12:25 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 'Nuneaton' - Home of The Stealth Scoob
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm flying out to Goa tomorrow afternoon for another two week holiday in the sunshine, this will be my 8th time.
On arrival on my fisrt trip to Goa I was horrified, but after two or three day's things become much more acceptable & the harsh first impression was gone.
It is a site to be seen, however one thing I did come away with & do everytime i come back from there is: my problems are in-significant in comparison to those outhere.
Yes it has it's bad area's like most places, but if you frequent those area's then you only have yourself to blame. I'm off to New York in May & to be honest I will feel much more at risk there than I have ever felt in India....
21 March 2008, 01:50 PM
#21
India means different things to different people. It is a very diverse country with natural beauty & also shanty towns & poverty. But IMO its the experience the culture; the people & the history that IMO far outweigh the negatives such as polloution, traffic, & inner city grime etc
21 March 2008, 02:38 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't been to India, but it does interest me. It is afterall the world's largest democracy
How significant have the changes over the past 20 years been ? What proportion of the population has a decent standard of living ? Do they dislike the Brits due to their imperial past ?
How significant have the changes over the past 20 years been ? What proportion of the population has a decent standard of living ? Do they dislike the Brits due to their imperial past ?
I remember being there that time, when all village people would gather around one television set to watch it, many villeges even travelled miles to watch it, ladies with their babies clung to their waists, men on the top of the buses ! India is well into computer age, you just need to go into games sites on line, you will realise how many Indians are reserving the highest scores LOLRoads remain the same, utter shame on Indian government.
It can be an interesting place. Unruly traffic, cows crossing the roads, or sitting in the middle of it, people sleeping on central reservations, slums facing modern skyscrapers, diesel engine and steam engine trains; mosquitos, heat, dust and millions of people everywhere just hits you like a shock! That's a real picture for a traveller as soon as one disembarks at the airport.
Then you start your travel, looking for things like Taj, Khajuraho, temples, palaces, camels, and sand dunes etc. You meet people, people, and people on your travel who possess no grudge against you (because of their imperial past) but simple curiosity. Ok, once called the Golden Bird has been raped and vicitimised by foreign invasions so many times, that poors will moider you for money; guessing that you are financially better of then them. But you learn something from those people i.e. how to survive and keep going with ample adversity. Their coping meachanisms are remarkable, and their respect for other nationalities is hounorable. Their cultural customs and traditions are very intriguing, as they always mean something. Some of them may even make you laugh
I have just received Happy Holi texts from my kins. People are smearing one another with all sorts of colours today! Altogether quite interesting, at least for a few days.
^ I say it realistically for a traveller. I know some that developed passion for India, and settled over there. Some simply couldn't cope, and ran back with upset stomachs to their well-organised countries.
Free will, free choices.
Last edited by Turbohot; 21 March 2008 at 02:40 PM.
21 March 2008, 03:06 PM
#23
Happy holi!
India is the only place I've been to that I really enjoyed and appreciated after having left the place. We spent 3 months on honeymoon there, travelling from Delhi, going 1st class by train to Varanasi and then visiting rellies in the Punjab and after that through Rajasthan
and down the whole west coast to the southern tip.
We'll be going back for a holiday once the kids are old enough. I will never be going back to Milton Keynes, though!
India is the only place I've been to that I really enjoyed and appreciated after having left the place. We spent 3 months on honeymoon there, travelling from Delhi, going 1st class by train to Varanasi and then visiting rellies in the Punjab and after that through Rajasthan
and down the whole west coast to the southern tip.We'll be going back for a holiday once the kids are old enough. I will never be going back to Milton Keynes, though!
21 March 2008, 03:22 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Happy holi!
India is the only place I've been to that I really enjoyed and appreciated after having left the place. We spent 3 months on honeymoon there, travelling from Delhi, going 1st class by train to Varanasi and then visiting rellies in the Punjab and after that through Rajasthan and down the whole west coast to the southern tip.
We'll be going back for a holiday once the kids are old enough. I will never be going back to Milton Keynes, though!
India is the only place I've been to that I really enjoyed and appreciated after having left the place. We spent 3 months on honeymoon there, travelling from Delhi, going 1st class by train to Varanasi and then visiting rellies in the Punjab and after that through Rajasthan
and down the whole west coast to the southern tip.We'll be going back for a holiday once the kids are old enough. I will never be going back to Milton Keynes, though!
Happy Holi to Suresh and family, and to other Scoobynetters too!
I am from Rajasthan. People go crazy on Holi over there!
21 March 2008, 04:39 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 'Nuneaton' - Home of The Stealth Scoob
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Saturday night Market near Mapusa in Goa.......some stunning ladies there....
Up for it....probably not!!
without wanting to sound condisending to women
Up for it....probably not!!
without wanting to sound condisending to women
21 March 2008, 04:49 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 709
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll post the link to my son's blog, which he has been running since he moved to India.
Programmer: Outsource Thyself
There's something about Holi last year. He was looking forward to it this year. He had 'armed' himself with a larger water cannon for this year. It's important to dress in white. The colours show up better.
Programmer: Outsource Thyself
There's something about Holi last year. He was looking forward to it this year. He had 'armed' himself with a larger water cannon for this year. It's important to dress in white. The colours show up better.
Last edited by CharlesW; 21 March 2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: to add some pictures
21 March 2008, 05:05 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HAHAHA 
u forgot *** break!!! less than £100 salary but clothes do NOT cost 40£ each!!!!! i dont think they have thousands of pounds of mortgage on their shoulders or V8 (or even flat fours)
LOOLLL 
Wet Gals!!! 