94impreza

I work for a logistics company. I recieved a letter yesterday from the local filth saying they intend "prosecution" against me for doing 70mph on the m23 ?
Another driver recieved the same letter, caught at the same time at the same location (i remember waving to him on that day as he came from the opposite direction). He was caught at 75mph....
My Operations manager phoned "Sussex Safer Roads Unit" and they said that we were in commercial vehicles and commercial vehicles have 10mph on every speed limit. IE on the motorway commercial vehicles can do a max of 60, in a 40 a max of 30 etc etc?????
Nobody at my depot was aware of this! I had assesments before i started this job 2 years ago and at no point was i told this? Nor was anyone else!.
I am fuming as i feel my job is responsible, that this part of the highway code is not explained enough and that at 70mph i was obviously sticking to the speed limit in my eyes.

What really gets me is i usually sit just below 80mph to avoid being pulled over, and if i was actually sitting at 70 its very likely i was behind someone, which means they have picked me out just for being in a commercial vehicle.

I intend to fight this, i feel it is blatent picking on commercial drivers, who are actually proven to be driving safely.

Can i ask is there any advice how i should approach this...?

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Sorry to hear that.

peppipoo

They will give you loads of advice.

Snug Rhino

Whats there to fight? You broke the law. You cant rob a bank and they say you didnt know it was wrong. Yell at your boss for sure, but you wont get the ticket removed.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

depends on the classification of the vehicle - if its a C or D classification then it has different regulations regarding the speed you are allowed to travel on particular roads. This is all covered quite clearly by the C & D classification theory test and in the Highway code I'm afraid.

If you were in a Cat B class vehicle that is used for commercial purposes, I also wasn't aware that the speed limits are different.

The bottom line they will take is that as the driver, you should be fully aware of the classification of the vehicle you are driving, and what rules and regulations apply to that particular classification.

Bakerman

As far as the law is concerned ignorance is no defence, don't get me wrong I am not defending them but if the speed limit is x and you are doing above that then you are guilty. If you are driving it then you should know the speed limit although you obviously don't mean a hgv as they should be limited but commerical should not come into it, just the type of vehicle.

117-126: Control of the vehicle : Directgov - Travel and transport

Check that the law are correct as they have been proven wrong in the past.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Many years ago I was a van driver and I was shocked to find after spending about six months thinking that the 70mph limit on dual carrigeways applied to me that, it in fact didn't and the limit was 60mph! No-one at my company had told me and I found out from a friend.

A few years later whilst working for another small company as a driver I asked my bosses if they were aware of this and they weren't!

I guess the onus is on you the driver to know how the law applies to you but in fairness the company should have informed you as a matter of course

Avi

It's a funny one this.

From what i recall .. a Transit Connect is 60.. but car derived vans are 70 (vauxhall combo , Renault Kangoo etc..) even though they are of similar size.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

I would have thought it would depend on the MAM of the vehicle in question? Rather than if it was car derived?

I know I've driven a transit van (can't recall which one) on a cat B before, but couldn't drive the 'big' Merc Sprinter because that was a cat C1?

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

all those times ive driven a 7.5 tonne at 70

Avi

I think so :

"Speed Limits – a van over 2.0t and under 3.5t GVW has a national single lane speed limit of 50mph (compared to 60mph for a car) and a duel carriageway limit of 60mph (compared to 70mph for a car). This means that most small vans will have the same limits as a car, however the Ford Connect and VW Caddy both exceed 2.0t GVW and are therefore required to follow the lower speed limits."

and...

"Car speed limits only apply to car derived vans with a Maximum Authorised Mass of under 2000kg."

SO if your van is not car derived but still has a MAM of under 2000kg you still have to adhere to the lower limit.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Remember reading on another car forum that someone had got done for the same in a hired Transit. The comapnies don't telly ou this when you take out the van but as said, ignorance appears no defence. Sorry.

5t.

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

I was driving a lwb high sided sprinter for a while last year and Ive only got a normal car licence! I thought you could drive anything upto 7.5 tonne on a normal license?

Simon C

If you passed in 96 or before then yes. After June or July 96 they changed the rules.

Leslie

As Prasius says, you are responsible for knowing the law with respect to what you were driving. It may seem unfair in a way but the coppers were entitled to book you if your van is restricted to 60.

You will have to find out exactly what your vehicle is restricted to and act accordingly.

Les

al4x1

So what size vehicle were you driving? I'm assuming over 7.5t as transits you are fine at 70 on motorways as with up to 7.5t lorries but as said only 60 on dual carriageways in a non car derived van. Unless there was a reduced limit in place it seems a bit odd to me

m1cks

Seems to be a Sussex Police thing. I have heard of someone else getting pulled up for this recently on the A27. Surely if you were on the M23, then the limit would have been 70 anyway, as opposed to the A23.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

My mini-bus feels like it's deployed air-brakes at 60 mph...
I now feel lucky...

DunxC

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

There must be times when it can be such as something being so obscure that you & many others are unaware - such as this one? Never heard of it myself & have been driving for 20 years!

TX.

94impreza

Well this is the thing, dual carraigeway obviously is different to motorway but i was caught on a 3-lane part.... See the "23" changes from M to A Road several times, goes from 3 lanes down to 2 and back to 3 several times from my depot at Gatwick to Brighton. "Dual" carraigeway to me means 2, "duo" meaning 2, Dual cam etc etc this was 3 lane. I had a good look yesterday and at Pease pottage there is a very-small sign saying "End of Motorway"

I myself was in a Luton Van, the other guy was in a sprinter, both driveable on ordinary licences regardless of what date you passed your test. I tested this out yesterday - I simply said to several people "I got caught doing 70 on the "23"" a few people laughed then their faced changed "Eh?! 70 on the 23? Whats wrong with that." Everybody was shocked, from 12 tonne drivers to subbies in their little postman pat type vans. I saw my Union representative who said i should fight this all the way as its sketchy to say the least. I am going to request the pictures because i believe i was behind a vehicle doing exactly the same speed.
The M or A 23 is well known for having many unmarked police cars, and is always also patrolled by marked cars also. I couldn't count the amount of times in the same vehicle i have passed marked and unmarked vehicles at 75-80 mph.

If i was caught at 85 then i'd be kicking myself. I'd hold my hands up and pay the fine but i am fuming about this. That i am the example who will have 3 points and a £60 fine so everyone can learn that 60 is the speed limit on the 23.

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

Whether you knew you were comitting an offence or not is irrelevan to be honest, and as has been said ignorance is no defence.

A lot of people don't know that parking on zigzags at a pedestrian crossing will get you 3 points, but that doesn't stop them getting a ticket.

94impreza

Is it actually ignorace though if something isn't well sign-posted, well displayed and obviously does "dual carriageway" apply to a 3-lane road? There are no 60 or 70 signs, only national speed limit signs. You wouldn't have national speed limit signs outside schools, even though the environment such as street lighting single-lane traffic makes it obvious you can't do 70.

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

As a driver you are expected to know what it says in the highway code.

It says that on a dual carriageway the speed lkmit for a goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5 tonnes is limited to 60mph.

It's no-ones fault but your own

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Whoops, Passed in 2001. I think this thread has highlighted a bit of a problem. Maybe the DVLA could put all those license, tax and test fees to better use. It makes you wonder how many others are driving around not in accordance to their license. Or maybe its not in their best interest at 60 quid a pop?

Robbieben

If you were as you say on the 3 lane section then the speed limit for you in a Luton Van is 70 Mph and not 60, I'd recommend that you contact a Transport Specialist Solicitor, they advertise in the back of Commercial Motor Magazine.
If you are in the TGWU your Union should fight the case for you and they will have Specialist Solicitors available to them

94impreza

Hmmm, see this is my point, its unclear what the speed limit is on this stretch of road. I've whacked it in google earth, the red circle showing the bridge he apparently was standing on, the blue showing where i would have been.

billythekid

Its this kind of incident (no direct dig at you) that is all too common at the moment. The Driver CPC is really needed IMHO. As an OL holder I interview drivers and often they have no idea of the specific regs that apply to them, speed limits, laoding, drivers hours etc etc. Its quite shocking. I was talking to a guy the other day and he did not have a clue about the Domestic or EU drivers hours regs, a crazy situation considering he is a PRO HGV DRIVER!.

When I did my OL CPC there was a guy on the course who had been driving a vehicle for over 5 years and when we got to the DL requirements he asked the instructor that he was confused as he did not have that paticular "+E"... anyway after a couple of mins it turned out he had been driving a +E for over 5 years without DL!! Madness on his part and the Op for not doing DL checks. And I wonder why I pay tens of thousands to run my fleet with proper training etc etc when there are plenty of people out there who dont have a clue!

However saying all this I do feel there are too many regulations and rules, it would be much better if there was a simplification of the system.

Sonic'

Doesnt surprise me one bit in that neck of the woods

I got stopped a few years back, they made me watch a video and told me they were throwing the book at me

The summons came back with Dangerous Driving, 4 counts of speeding and driving without due care and attention

The Dangerous Driving was allegedly them saying I swerved across a lane and made someone swerve violently out of the way to avoid a serious accident, the 4 counts of speeding were corrent, and the due care and attention was allegeldy me driving too close to the car in front

Now I asked for the video evidence and they had lost it, so my first line of defence was that in their professional opinion as police officers if they deemed me to be driving dangerous why did they let me continue for the reported ten miles, their answer was that due to the sheer volume of traffic it was unsafe to stop me

Again we asked for the video, they still couldnt find it

In the end we got the video and there was only me and the unmarked police car for 9 of the ten miles, and it was the unmarked police car that was driving dangerously close to the back of my car, and it was very clear from the video that it was another car that swerved across the lane almost taking me and the unmarked car out

Needless to say it got thrown out of court and the officers involved severly repremanded

Nate

iTrader: (2)

Excellent

Boro

iTrader: (1)

I didnt realise vans had different speed limits either. I dont drive vans but was once asked by my employed to deliver some stuff in a 7.5t van.

They didnt tell me there was a speed limit difference and i dont think i should have known there was a difference as i dont drive vans for a living or even regularly.

Seems like a case of easy money for the government if you ask me.

SVXNUT

Not sure if am right, but doesn't a road have to have a hard shoulder if it is classified as a M Way??.