GOLDMAN 555

Apparently UK government are planning to pass a law where people found illegally downloading from the Internet will be banned from using the Internet!!!

I mean FFS this country is going down the pan.

Fundamentally, you get three strikes then your address is banned from using the Internet.



Welcome to the Democratic People's Republic of Britain

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

He could have at least made an effort!

Ns" How you like that, Han Blix?!?!" 04

GOLDMAN 555

Does Brittany Spears need another Gulfstream jet

Does Madonna need to earn another £60 million a year etc etc

NO

OllyK

File sharing isn't going to go away, not with the prices being charged for CDs, DVDs and even MP3 downloads. The Film and Music industry are greedy and people find ways to circumvent the issue. At the moment not many people get caught so most people don't worry. If more start getting caught, there will be a greater proliferation of anonymous, distributed, encrypted file sharing.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I wouldn't mind so much, but haven't some retailers and pundits gone on record as saying that "illegal" downloads really haven't put a significant dent in their takings? It woud appear that many people use the files as "try before you buy" and then buy the originals as they like to have something tangible.

Ns04

boxst

It is going to be difficult to monitor as p2p programs are used for legal purposes as well, so packet sniffing isn't going to help that much. Ports can be changed, so can't block that. They can set 'traps' where a company hosts a file and then records all IP's that try to download, but private trackers stop that.

So we will see...

Steve

ChefDude

even microsoft use torrent type engines for distributing files.

Can't see this being easily enforced.

ex-webby

It would be incredibly good if there was a way to enforce this, but there just isn't. Piracy, etc is just theft, plain and simple.. but just because something's wrong, doesn't mean you can necessarily stop it.

All that will happen, is that stupid people will end up being spotted and procecuted and the really clever people who are probably downloading a thousand times more than the stupid ones, and probably making a living out of it as well, will continue to upgrade their tactics and get away scott free.

These kinds of legislation are a waste of time, except to create more awareness and make an example of a few people.

MJW

Plus there's no way that the country's ISPs will relish the fact that they'd be banning half of their subscribers : it would have a severely detrimental effect on their income.

GOLDMAN 555

I agree to a certain extent however demonising downloading which is a relatively benign crime in comparison to actual burglary and car theft etc is plain wrong.

This is yet another example of the government cracking down on the freedom of the Internet this isnt the thin end of the wedge it's the wedge being driven in.

Big Brother is here

WRX_Dazza

newsgroups is the way to go....

SlimJ_2005

I really dont understand how the industry can say they are losing millions, yes I download stuff, but most of the content I download I wouldn't buy anyway! I've downloaded albums, liked the music and bought the CD or gone to one of the artists gigs! I don't see the industry suffering really, since when have you seen an artist give up singing as they are not making enough money only to get a job in Tesco?

File sharing isn't going to go away, the industry are clutching at straws, they have tried to prosecute people which has not had an effect in stopping people distributing illegal content, so I doubt this will have any effect either, I just think technology will improve and new systems will come out that will just bypass these laws.

Whos going to police it? The ISP's don't really care, once they have your money. Are they going to check every packet of date going across their network? even if they do they may find that 50% of their customer base illegally downloads content, thats a lot of people to remove from their network, would they be happy with losing such a large proportion of their income?

What I would like to hear from the government is when are they going to start tackling the real issues with this country? Crime is out of control in some areas yet I don't see any 'papers' to tackle these 'real' issues!!

Grrr... politics makes me bloody mad!!!!! Can we have a commonsense party please???

Sonic'

I do like the way the movie & music industry say they are losing millions becasue of people downloading their products

Me personally I dont buy too many CD's or DVD's nor do I download much either

Even if the ability to download wasn't available, I wouldnt spend any more or less than I do anyway

I do know that there are people who sell films/albums etc pirated and they are the ones costing tehe industry potentially millions, but then again if they didnt would all those people who buy pirated material suddenly start going to HMV & the Odeon ?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

The music industry in particular needs a damn good shake up, it's amounted to little more than legitmate theft off of artists for years and now it's complaining because another form of theft is negating its ill gotten profits!

The enterprising bands are already using the internet to circumvent record companies and get to their fans direct. Interesting to note that many of these bands (a good proportion of which aren't exactly mega rich) aren't at all bothered by illegal downloads.

Marillion are a great example. Fans buy their music in advance, when they have enough money, they make it, sell it direct to the fanbase and let record companies take care of the remaining distribution (only the band can command a sensible royalty, as they don't need any money off the label to make the record, and don't have to pay back an advance, they also keep the rights to their music) They can sell live CDs DVDs etc of their own meaning all the money goes to them and even with the illegal downloads etc... they're much better off than they would have otherwise been. It's not just the more underground bands either.

Radiohead did somethng slimilar recently. They're not exactly skint!

I think the filesharing thing will eventually result in a better deal for the artists, NOT the record companies.

Ns04

Sonic'

NS, I know all about Marillion as I am friends with them

It actually saved them quite a while back when they first came up with the idea, also the money helps to pay for the tours too which in turn sells more albums direct

MattW

Just a shame their last few albums have been sh1te

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

LOL. You've one-upped me! I've only been a fan since Seasons End! Yep, evidently their manager at the time was suggesting they all get part time jobs on the side, so pretty dire! Tragic that such a good band should have to stuggle to make ends meet, especially when they have such a large and devoted fan base. The internet idea was just what the Dr ordered!

I didn't think much of Somewhere Else to be honest; bit bland by their standards and quite a few songs just didn't seem to go anywhere and had a distinctly "not quite finished" air to them!

Any band that is on their 15th album is entitled to one below par album in my view though! Some people raved about it though, so horses for courses!

Live, they're still in a different league to most bands.

Say hi to em for me! How do you know em?

Simon C

A friend of mine used to be in a signed band. IIRC she used to get about 30p per sale of the album!!!


Record labels are just a big drain, and even more so on small artists, and some managers ain't much better!!!!.

fatcorsa

what happens if... lets say you log onto nextdoors unsecure wirless and download via there internet? can that be traced back to your computer/ laptop??

Markus

Therein lies an interesting point. One would hope that before your internet access is stopped someone would look into this situation, trawl through logs and such like to see if the items that were downloaded from your machine or not.

One could argue you should secure your wireless network, but some people don't think to do it and find it to complicated to configure. I'm sure that if this legislation was to pass, local computer firms will be rather happy as they could have a nice littler earner, coming round to ensure your wireless network is secure, that'll be £100 please

boxst

No it'll be down to the person with the open connection. My wireless connection is STILL open (and a nice fast 24mb one as well). The original idea was that I don't actually mind the occasional person using my connection and also plausible deniability: "You mean that illegal things have been downloaded from my connection? It must have been someone else.."*

* Apparently that has actually been tried in court and failed (can't find the link)

Steve

EddScott

I don't download music. Haven't got the time to fanny about putting the music on disc.

Only thing I DL is films and thats only to my HD as I again I haven't got the time or patience to get the film on a disc. 9 out of 10 i buy the DVD anyway. Only the ones I really didn't like will I not buy.

AVP2 and Beowulf watched on Friday. AVP2 will be bought as I'm a fan even though its a bit sh1te and beowulf was OK and might get it when its cheaper.

Far as I'm concerned its a try before you buy in case I waste £15 on a DVD thats complete tosh.

Plus our cinema has only just finished showing Empire Strikes Back (not the remastered either I might add!)

EddScott

Didn't know they had an M&S store

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

i watched this on the news at lunch time and didn't understand it to be a ban on the address as such - more that they want to make it compulsory for the ISPs to issue warnings, and after 3 strikes, disconnections.

It won't work. As said, ISPs won't want to cut off half their customers due to lost business, P2P applications will run different ports and the type of traffic can't be monitored (legal or illegal content), and even if people do get disconnected, they can just start up with a new ISP - there's no shortage of those about at the moment

It just amounts to scare tactics - they're hoping that they might at least frighten some of the downloaded into thinking they are being watched.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Fundamentally this can be boiled down to having your postman examine all the mail you receive, and all the mail you send. Crimes have always been committed in this country, and there is normally a paper trail attached to them somewhere. If we allowed everyone's mail to be opened and examined then we should be able to cut down on other forms of crime.

Actually suggesting that this done would be completely ludicrous, not to mention completely morally wrong.

If this actually comes through, once again we will move into the realm of guilty until proved innocent. Anyone moving large amounts of traffic will come under suspicion. The amount of ID theft will be horrendous. Legally allowing some low paid worker to sift through your data is going to lead to all sorts of nasty things happening.

Not to mention that all data you send can be encrypted by one means or another. For this to work, they are actually going to have to break your encryption. The normal method for this will be that they request your password, and no doubt make it an offence to deny them this knowledge.

The implications are tremendous, from widespread ID theft to all programs encrypting stuff as a matter of course. Most people don't even know what encryption is, let alone how to do it. Just imagine how much harder the police's job will become if every single document they ever come across has strong encryption they have to break before they start.

corradoboy

It's the Napster arguement all over again. I d/l movies quite a lot now as I have a media HDD which means the hassle of burning to disc is removed. I still go to the cinema, I still buy (lots of) DVD's, but I do download stuff I'm unsure whether I'd enjoy, or the good stuff to fill the time gap between cinema and DVD release. The stuff I'm unsure of I just wouldn't buy and would be prepared to wait for on terrestrial TV anyway, so no loss of income there. The good stuff I've paid to see at the cinema and will buy the DVD, so no loss of income there. However, if I download something I'm unsure of and really enjoy it, they get another purchase that they probably wouldn't have got, Shooter and The Kingdom being the two most recent. The only negative argument about my behaviour would be that I no longer buy DVD's as they're released, preferring to wait until the price is much lower some months later, but they still get bought.

So, anyone found a decent Cloverfield torrent yet

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

Some interesting points there Luminous

I often leave a VPN connection active from home to work - as a network engineer it allows me to monitor servers and activity from home. And more importantly, fix stuff without having to go into the office

All of this traffic is encrypted, and as its a constant data stream, i expect it could be considered suspicious under such a system....

jjones

alls i see is the end of non encrypted p2p traffic. not sure the security services will be too pleased that the government will be making p2p undecipherable to security services by "forcing" users onto fully encryted systems. there are more coders on the illegal side of this equation. remember the huge "takedown" of napster back in the day, did this signal the end of file sharing? did it bollocks - just forced adaptation and evolution into what is the current Torrent lead scene.

Tidgy

makes me larf.

they claim downloading films jepourdises film production.

well heres the thing,

they only say a film is successfull if it grosses 3times the cost to make at the cinema alone!!!


and also i'd guess 99% of profits made from ilegal selling of dvd's goes to spotty teenagers rather than big crime syndicates as they claim pmsl

so a movie is already in proffit the second it hits stores via dvd, and how much does it cost to make a dvd in bulk? £1 including cd, case, burning, printing and delivering.

tis a joke

Lee247

Beggars belief
Have they nothing more important to concentrate new laws on