Mr Bat

I would be interested to know opinion on this.

OllyK

Morals aren't about belief, they are actions that are acceptable to the community in which you live. Moral behaviour is not unique to humans and is widely observed in other species. It boils down to the simple fact that it's easier to survive if you work together than spend your time trying to kill each other.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Thread closed.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Yip, its just things that come from being social animals. All social animals have "morals", except they just don't write them down like us (to my knowledge ).

Reality

Without religion we would have no morals and no beliefs and we would all be lawless animals.






May aswell get this thread going

OllyK

Sorry, been covered, animals exhibit moral behaviour, religion is not necessary.

Mr Bat

I too believe that those creatures who cooperated, survived longer, and therefore were able to pass on their genes etc. The reason I asked is because a large number of people I have worked with also manage to bring God into the equation….a disturbingly large amount

what would scooby do

I suggest you "raise your consciousness" and read Richard Dawkin's book - The God Delusion

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

... or alternatively, just have a good think about the universe, yourself, and your life, and make your own mind up, rather than just having another idiot egotist telling you that THEIR truth is THE TRUTH, and someone elses truth isn't THE TRUTH at all. Oh. And buy my book while your at it.

I would like to think, with the way Reality's comment was written, that they were being "devils advocate".

But heavy religious types will aways attempt to suggest that morality is only provided by their religion in order to give it some kind of credibility. They will also claim that other social animals have no morality because they refuse to accept that we are just animals and that we're somehow "special". Of course, a little bit of common sense when watching the social interaction of other species shows that this is not the case - if these animals had no "morals" - or social rules, then they simply wouldn't be able to function as a social group.

Jamie

OllyK

They will. The next point they'll make is that you can't be moral without a belief in god. What get's really interesting is when you start to turn that around. If they can't be moral without the threat of a god hanging over their head then are they moral at all? Most atheists manage to live a moral existence with no such threats.

OllyK

I pity anybody that takes Dawkins to that extreme. He's an interesting read and makes some useful points but he's only one of many sources. Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Carl Sagan are all worth a read. It's also worth reading the Talmud, Torah, Bible (with the Apocrypha), the Qur'an and a few other religious text for comparison. Sadly they aren't as coherent or consistent as some of the modern, non-god inspired writers.

Bubba po

I don't think he needs to - he's just stirring.

Diesel

Can I get back to you on this? After Eastenders

I love Scoobynet! From trivia to profound. I do big bore exhausts, diy tips and existentialism me!!!

Oll - where do non human animals exibit morality?

D

Martin2005

Blimey this is a first - I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

Doing good for the sake of it, is in my view a far greater good then doing it for some sort of religious payback.

OllyK

Look at any animals that form herds or packs. It starts with bacteria, through ants, bees, cows, wolves, lions, monkeys, chimps and gorillas. They all work together in some form or another for the common good.

what would scooby do

It's not for the common good, it's for the protection and replication of their own DNA


hope that helps

Bubba po

And the dna of the offspring that often share fifty percent of the parent's dna (sometimes more in asexually reproducing species), and the dna of kin that share copies of their genes to a greater or lesser degree.

Diesel

Teamwork isnt morality mate. It helps self preservation except when it doesnt suit you. E.g. Male lions kill cubs if they aint their own. That, from my moral perspective, is a nauseating amoral behaviour.

This subject is new to me really, but I dont think animals have a concept of morality - and that isnt cos of a lack of a God(s) thing. They dont worry about having big tellys, platinum credit cards and fast cars either!

D

Diesel

Where did you get that?

D

what would scooby do

Somerfields, or maybe the pound shop

OllyK

Indeed, it's quite worrying to think there are churches all over the land full of murderers and rapists, held in check only by the belief that they will be punished by a deity if they don't behave. I find it rather worrying to be honest.

To see what I mean, see what get's posted on some of the Christian fundamentalist web sites, they seem to be a very un-christian bunch to me: Fundies Say the Darndest Things! - Latest Comments

Have a read of the story about the woman who's son is gay.

These quotes really are typical of the sort of things I come across. If you're going to debate a fundie then be prepared for them to turn up with a cart full of straw and motorised goal posts

Bubba po

But humans demonstrate equally amoral behaviour! In fact, I believe it's not unknown in some tribes for the entire offspring of a deposed king to be killed.

what would scooby do

..and it also explains latent racism and xenophobia IIRC

OllyK

Which has the by product of improving the chances of the others in the herd also doing the same.

what would scooby do

scary thing is that america is run by such feebs

what would scooby do

You calling your missus a heifer?

OllyK

Yes but that's your morals, as I pointed out in my first post, morals are not global, even in a single species. It's what's acceptable in the community that you live in. What is acceptable in some countries (with humans) isn't in others. Consider the treatment of women in Islamic countries for example, we wouldn't consider it very moral, but it is acceptable in their culture / community.

Your talking about materialism, that's nothing to do with morals.

Bubba po

But only because of the probability that they share copies of the same genes owned by the individual exhibiting altruistic or moral behaviour. "Species selection" doesn't exist, except as a by-product of kin selection.

OllyK

Female circumcision anyone?