Diesel

I moaned at Barclays as they made me call them on an 0870 phone number to sort out a mistake they had made. This was costing me money as it is not within the BT evening calls package or mobile minutes I already pay for. They gave me a fiver during the call as compensation...

I just think it is well out of order to dip their fingers into your pocket by inflating your phone bill. They charged 8p a minute - that was £1.60 listening to muzak before I even spoke to anyone for me Outrageous! Some (like the AA) charge a 'set-up' cost too...

0845 numbers are much cheaper, but it is still unfair to have your phone bill increased, be it on a mobile or home landline, as again this sits outside of any inclusive minutes packages you already pay for. They can also charge 'set up' fees (e.g the AA)

There are actually websites dedicated to finding normal landline options for these rip off companies.

SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers

OFCOM is actually stopping companies from ripping us off with 0870 numbers at some point, but companies will just switch to 0871 numbers then and charge you even more at 10p per minute...

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Abdabz

It is poo but boycotting them is getting harder and harder as there are so many - unless you remember to look at "say no to 0870" and the likes...

Customer Services across the land are desperate to drive their customers into "Self Help" pages on the web to reduce contacts into their centres and so reduce costs.
Charing a premium on inbound calls is one deterrant, as is minimal staffing levels, IVR with automated options to pay bills / check balances etc...

I have found the occasions I have tried to contact companies I use for mobile and broadband that their automated voice options / levels of care were appalling...

I think we should boycott companies.

GC8WRX

Its all a cospiracy to stop the general public complianing to a person who represents the company and can be held accountable, and get them to use websites and sort their own accounts out!
Then if it goes wrong, "you must have used the website wrongly, sir!", they lose their accountability!

OllyK

08XX includes 0800, which are free, I'm not boycotting those!

Diesel

Dont call them from your mobile though! Isnt that just pants as you PAY the line rental which seems to NOT cover the line rental for making these normally free calls.

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OllyK

I don't pay the bill for my mobile, and IIRC it's free from Orange but not the others anyway

Vampire

I avoid these companies/numbers if I can, but sometimes you just have to bend over and call them.

If I have time, I'll try and look up an alternate 'geographical' number on SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers and then call them on that, and ask to be transferred to the right dept.

Tis quite annoying. I had to call Orange on one of those numbers this morning for 26 minutes.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

I agree, i try not to call 0870 numbers if i can help it.

But should we not be asking why mobile companies charge to call free (0800) numbers?

phoenixgold

iTrader: (2)

0800 used to be free on orange, but they stopped it about 18 months ago. The bit that annoys me with 0870 numbers is the automated system that answers the calls and puts you on hold so starting to charge you. If they just rang until answered, you wouldn't be getting charged until then.

Diesel

I think putting their hand in your phone bill is wrong full stop.

Also you can just imagine some bright young management accountant asking the BT engineer to build in long convoluted menus and a minimum 5 mins on hold so as it equates to thousands of pounds more profit pa, whilst pi1ssing their 'client' off and treating them like numpties big time...

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Nate

iTrader: (2)

I think the reason 0800 numbers are charged (usually your standard rate) is the cost is bourne by the 0800 number owner, who may not know you are calling from a mobile, and therefore being charged for you calling from a mobile. It is the same as answering a call on mobile when abroad, you usually pay the difference between the person calling, and the transfer of the call abroad, as the person calling you, may not know where you are

I know this is the reason behind the 0800 numbers because I have one

Diesel

Disagree completely mate. I pay line rental. This does not therefore ever cause cost to people I call, and it never causes cost to them should I be abroad ( that would be very unfair)

You need to question things a bit more my friend, if I can be so humble as to suggest. D

spufus

iTrader: (2)

I agree totally.

I run my own web design business & have setup a Skype lo-call number.
Local rate from landlines & mobiles in the UK.
I want your business, why would I expect you to pay for the luxury of asking me a few questions.

Nate

iTrader: (2)

Unless things have changed, I have always been aware that if you phone mobile to mobile and the recipient of the cal is abroad, the recipient is charged the extra for an international call.

the 0800 number issue (I am with BT), I have always been aware that if someone makes a call from a mobile, They are charged their standard rate because it wouldn't be fair on the 0800 number owner.

Look at this way also, you do not know which tariff the mobile user is on, so at the end of the month/quarter, you get a bill will all manner of charges from people with different tariffs. Imagine paying the largest cost of a mobile tariff constantly, it would soon add up. + I think they doing for ease, imagine them doing their homework to find out which tariff applies to each mobile that calls your 0800 number.

Don't matter to me to be honest(outgoing wise), I only have my mobile during the day anyway, so if the calls have to be made, they have to be made .

Diesel

Ahh, yes I get that now. unfair to make the 0800 owner/recipient pick up the cost of any higher cost call from a mobile, rather than a landline. Kind of ironic really, and the tables turned!

I think that is even more reason for the networks to INCLUDE it in the bundled minutes at least the grabby shysters

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gazza-uk

just use your work phone

Leslie

That program to find an alternative normal number does not seem to work any more-they must have put a fix in.

Les

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

I expect this will go against all of the opinions above, but hey, i'll stick my neck out

Yes, 0870 numbers generate revenue. For some companies, thats used to offset the cost of paying someone to sit on the end of a phone and talk to you. If they didn't have this revenue, they'd just make the money somewhere else (like increasing the prices of whatever they sell!). At least this way, you pay for the quantity of time you require to talk to them, rather than the company levying some kind of cost on everyone through increased prices.

I work for a UK charity and we use 0870 numbers a lot. If we didn't, we wouldn't offer some of the services we do, or we'd cut back on spending elsewhere - which goes against the principles of what charities are setup to do - help people/animals etc.

Its only 7p/minute people, you burn more fuel cost than that in the scoob every minute

lozgti

Just telephoned the local bowling alley to book a game.

Seems they have now changed to an 0870 number.

Diesel

That's a charity not a business - so I'd cut some slack there.

However I think that products or services should be paid for in the usual way. What next a 'checkout fee' at Tesco? Or free entry to a car showroom but a fiver to talk to the salesman (just to cover their costs in case you decide not to buy anything).

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Maz

iTrader: (34)

The charity issue is interesting. On tv the presenter comes out with the line 'at least xxp goes to charity'. How much exactly? How much is taken in profit and how much is taken as 'expenses'. With 0870 numbers used regularly for good causes, we the public should know how much of our money is actually going to charity.

LC Geezer

Every bloody business in this crappy country has jumped on the 087x bandwagon.

All Torque

Mobiles Phone companys started to charge for 0800 numbers because of calling cards. I remember being on Orange PAYG when they had free 0800 numbers but were charging 35ppm or 50ppm to other mobiles. With a calling card you register up with the company with credit card and the mobile phone number you are going to use, then agree an ammount that they could take out each time you drop down to a set limit. To use the service you then dial an 0800 access number they give to you, an automated voice will tell you how much credit you have left then give you a dial tone to call whoever you want at prices as low as 3ppm. I used my phone this way for about 5 or 6 years, Ericsson as they were called then even had a special feature to make it easier to use calling cards, basicly you were using the mobile operaters transmitters and not paying them a penny for doing so.
The mobile phone operater used to sometimes catch on that the 0800 number you was using was to a calling card and block it, you just simply obtain another number from the CC company which will work for some time again, thats untill they all decided to charge for all 0800 numbers except certain registered charities.

Lum

There are technical reasons for 08xx numbers as well as just profit. They're called "non geographic" numbers and the beauty of them is you can point them at any "real" phone number you like.

So, want to move your call centre from Slough to Leeds? Simply build a new call centre, get the phone lines put in, then call up your 0870 provider and tell them you want your number to point here now. No need to throw away millions of pre-printed letterheads and send out letters to all your customers telling them that your number has changed.

Want to move your call centre from Leeds to sodding India, now you really do need an 08xx number, unless you want all your customers to call India directly at 50p a minute or whatever BT decide to charge these days. Of course, you can route the call through your own preferred international calls provider (probably some kind of VOIP these days) and negotiate a bulk discount. The profit you make from the 0870 will go some way towards paying for the international leg of the call.

Of course, since they do have to be pointed at a real phone number, this is why the likes of saynoto0870 actually work, just dont be surprised if one day the number you get starts 0091...

Out of interest, is it free to call 00800 numbers from a mobile? You don't get the warning message so I'm guessing it is.

Diesel

I guess that is a valid reason - mitigates the annoyance

I used to use a calling card for overseas calls n the mobie - they had a number you dialled up that worked within your inclusive minutes. Best use I made of it was a full second half duration call in a rugby match; I was in the stadium in Cardiff and my mate was watching his team in the pub in Oz. (We lost but the call was only like 3p a minute )

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Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

Exactly - its this feature thats more beneficial to us as a charity than the profit made from the calls tbh. Most of the time we have the 0870 numbers pointing at a helpline in our head office (small scale helpdesk environment).

However, when we are running a series of TV adverts asking for donations, the numbers are switched to a large call centre who handles the calls on our behalf - theres no way we could handle that volume of calls otherwise, and we'd miss out on loads of donations.

The previous point about moving offices is equally valid - its not just changing letterheads/stationary that needs changing if you have to change a phone number - its banners, shop signs, sign-written vehicles, web sites, and more. It would cost us tens of thousands just in getting these number physically updated everywhere they are displayed.

In my view, 0870 numbers are a vital business tool - its not all about trying to steal your money! its about being practical in everyday life!

Leslie

Fine-all understood. But why not operate them at the cost for a normal number then?

Les

phoenixgold

iTrader: (2)

0800 and 0845 are ngn's as well. They have the same call routing features as 0870. The main difference is the cost. 0870 can have a high proportion of the call cost as revenue share to the owner. 0845 can range from small revenue share to having to pay. 0800, the owner pays the whole cost. All the costs amount tend to vary depending on how many minutes are coming through the number

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

What about these 0906 support numbers, where the cost of the call is refunded based on some Indian bloke being able to understand what it is you need help with !

Diesel

There are solutions to all these issues that do not involve passing the burden of cost to your customers. Call diversion (at minimal cost to the company) and phasing in of the new number being one, rather than doing it all on day one. I still feel a charity is probably a slighly different case (although I am still undecided if you should be charging helpful fundraisers before they fundraise).

At the end of the day for commercial businesses though it is their choice. I wouldnt elect to do this to my customers, and I think the poll shows why that would be wise. Even more so if you think of someone trawling the yellow pages and making decisions on who to call for a quote or service.

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